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Post by gaisum206 on Jul 15, 2006 13:24:45 GMT 7
I received a job offer with Shijiazhuang Foreign Language School and I want to find out more information about the school. They gave me their website but does not tell me much information. Has anyone taught in the school? Please reply asap.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Jul 15, 2006 13:51:38 GMT 7
I don't know if we have any direct veterans or not. There are millions of these schools in China, and the odds of finding someone who's worked at a particular school, especially an obscure school in a small city, are pretty remote.
I did a Yahoo search on the school's name. I found a few references in blogs etc. I didn't see any dire warnings, but I didn't really find much hard info on them at all. The only possible full review I found was on Buxiban, a pretty good site. However, Buxiban now seems to be charging an annual membership fee if you want to see their content. I, uh, wish them luck with that.
The lack of damning review can be taken as a hopeful sign, but not a guarantee. But then, there never are any guarantees with schools in China anyway.
As I indicated privately, I'm not a big fan of Shijiazhuang. What I saw was an ugly, backward, boring, coal-fired brick slum that freezes in the winter. But then my encounter with it was brief, and I am a self-confessed partisan of the Greater Suzhou area (including Shanghai), which has pretty much spoiled me for the rest of China. Perhaps others will have a different impression.
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nolefan
Barfly
Quod me nutrit, me destruit!
Posts: 686
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Post by nolefan on Jul 15, 2006 15:32:48 GMT 7
I spend more time than i'd like to in shijiazhuang because of business interest and I could not agree more with Raoul about that city. there is something about the Shiz ( that's how the locals nicknamed it) that brings out the worst aspects of men and women.
Most of the schools there are pretty bad except EF strangely enough and #42 middle school.
Just recently, some friends of mine were caught of guard by bouncers in a night club that felt like beating up on the laowais.. 2 were tabbed in the lower back (small blade thank god) and one had his arm broken in a few places requiring surgery.
I can't recommend staying out of that city enough...
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Decurso
Barfly
Things you own end up owning you
Posts: 581
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Post by Decurso on Jul 15, 2006 17:09:43 GMT 7
I also had an aquaintance stabbed in SJ about a month ago.But in it's defence it's very big and modern with a large foreign community(some of whom aren't even wankers) and lots of western ammenities...while still offering a plethora of dirt cheap hole-in-the-wall restaurants and all night beer-b-q's.
But yeah..a disproportianate ammount of negative school reviews come out of Shijiazhuang.
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Post by gaisum206 on Jul 16, 2006 16:39:28 GMT 7
Thank you all who replied to my request. The recruiter offered me 4000rmb per mth salary plus the normal free accommodation...etc.etc.etc. They reluctant to give me any school contacts and so forth when I asked them. I guess I have to do more and more research but I think I've made up my mind. Does anyone know of any school (s) in the South of China who looks for full time teachers? I think the North is too cold for me.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Jul 16, 2006 22:06:00 GMT 7
Hey Gaisum,
The more I hear about this job the worse it sounds. It sounds like you're making a wise decision. That salary is pretty bad, and a reluctance to provide info should ALWAYS be taken as a bad sign.
If they won't give you school contacts then they are a recruiter. Run away now while the running's good. Recruiters should also be taken as bad news.
Lots of jobs everywhere. A little background would help...education? Experience? Certifications, etc.?
Also, please check out our hard-won but woefully underutilized Links page. A lot of places to find jobs in there, no recruiters required.
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Post by gaisum206 on Jul 17, 2006 18:19:24 GMT 7
Thank you heaps.
I received three phone calls from the recruiter (I think) so far. They want me to do my physical examination results so they can apply my invitation letter for visa purposes. I think the salary is very low after reading posts on this forum. Ummmmm. Someone is trying to make money here.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Jul 17, 2006 18:27:22 GMT 7
Yup. This is the world of recruiters...and one of the many reasons to stay away from it!
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nolefan
Barfly
Quod me nutrit, me destruit!
Posts: 686
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Post by nolefan on Jul 17, 2006 20:15:57 GMT 7
4000 for 16 hours is the norm in shizi. If anything, it's even just a bit above what some people I know are making.
Don't base that decision on salary only.. look at the side benefits in terms of paid vacation, ticket, flat, etc....
Also, a good school that pays a low salary is better than a bad school that promises high salary...
That said, the good schools in shizi are far and in between...
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Post by gaisum206 on Jul 18, 2006 11:02:56 GMT 7
I have tried to negotiate the salary with the recruiter so I can get more but she/he said that is the starting salary. I also tried to negotiate other matters on the contract but the recruiter kept saying to wait until I get to the school. That sort of put me off a bit so I asked for the school contacts and she/he would not give it to me. Well I started teaching in 1983 as a Sunday School Teacher, English Tutor for couple of years, qualified interpreter/translator til present..and almost complete my Diploma in TEOFL. I am not sure whether that's enough to get a teaching position in other areas of China. After reading some stories on the school review sites, dave's esl and others, it is very hard to find a good school. But then I guess you can only find out if you step your foot inside. "NO PROBLEM IS A BIG PROBLEM"
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Post by Raoul Duke on Jul 18, 2006 18:26:47 GMT 7
Dealing with a recruiter can be an invitation to disaster! Strongly recommend you don't. OK, I'll shut up about it now. All I can do is try.  |
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Decurso
Barfly
Things you own end up owning you
Posts: 581
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Post by Decurso on Jul 18, 2006 22:46:33 GMT 7
Come now boss.Not ALL recruiters are evil.I know of some pretty good ones.I know I'm a minority in this respect..but the support of a good recruiter is a good thing to have sometimes.
4000 is pretty good for SJ.Hebei wages are very low..but so is the cost of living.
Don't know what to make of this recruiter..on the one hand they are telling him his school in advance and offering to arrange his visa.On the other hand..the reluctance to provide information or any contact with the school sends up a red flag.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Jul 19, 2006 1:48:36 GMT 7
I dunno, Decurso...I think that marks the first time I've ever seen the words "recruiter" and "support" together in a sentence that wasn't mostly profanity.
I don't think that ALL recruiters are evil. Some are OK. About 4 or 5 in the whole damn country; the rest ain't nothin' but a bunch of mangy dogs. Your chances of connecting with a good one are so remote, and your chances of getting an evil one so high, that it just isn't worth it.
It might be different if jobs were hard to come by...but they're not. Anyone who can use Google (and of course our Links page) can find a job here without using a recruiter...and you'll have AT LEAST as much chance of not getting ripped off as you'll have through a recruiter.
Besides, good schools with clean records in nice cities that pay decent salaries don't need recruiters. They don't have too much trouble filling their slots by themselves and recruiters won't find these jobs for you. Crappy schools that get 527,000 Google hits in the complaint pages of the EFL websites, in a small village downwind from Taiyuan, paying 3500 a month to teach middle-schoolers for 25 hours a week...now THEY need recruiters.
I'm sorry, I said I'd shut up about this. I lied. I've seen way too much abuse to not speak out.
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Post by gaisum206 on Jul 19, 2006 18:16:24 GMT 7
I just want to thank you both for some really good information, suggestions, thoughts, etc. It is good to hear both sides especially when I am a newbie. I will have to made up my mind and advise the school accordingly. Year 2007 is not too far away to prepare and hit the road (China) I mean. Once again guys and everyone who replied Thank You.
cheers
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Post by Raoul Duke on Jul 20, 2006 2:30:34 GMT 7
So....watcha gonna do?  |
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Post by gaisum206 on Jul 20, 2006 17:25:36 GMT 7
I haven't decided yet but I am still looking around.
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Post by gaisum206 on Jul 20, 2006 17:31:57 GMT 7
Has anyone heard of Jiangsu Jiangyin Huashi Experimental School?
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Post by Raoul Duke on Jul 20, 2006 19:24:06 GMT 7
Not by name. What city is it in? I'm in Suzhou, Jiangsu and the public schools here tend to be relatively good.
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Post by gaisum206 on Jul 21, 2006 2:23:10 GMT 7
Well at the moment I am still looking around. Has anyone heard or taught at Shanghai Industry & Commerce Foreign Languages College or Jiangsu Jiangyin Huashi Experimental School? I received a job offer from them yesterday.
cheers
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teleplayer
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Ni3 you3 hen3 duo1 qian2. Gei3 wo3 yi4dian(r)3 ba.
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Post by teleplayer on Jul 21, 2006 5:20:08 GMT 7
Gaisum,
Is this in part of the Huaxi Village that is supposedly the richest village in China?
The school has same ad , usually paired with the Shanghai School on a whole bunch of sites that begin:
"To the South of Yangtze River, pregnant with beauty and productive of talent, many renowned personalities gather together. In national top 100 prosperous counties No. one southern Jiangsu strong city Jiangyin city, in world-famous town, Huashi, that Huaxi Village belongs to, located a provincial exemplary school enjoying high reputation in national education circle -- Huashi Experimental school of Jiangyin."
If so, it's in Jiangsu Province, a totally authoritarian place, no bars, no internet cafes, karaoke lounges....
This guy, Wu Renbao, is behind that. He's 80, retired this year and turned absolute power over to his 4th son. I think he also has/had something to do with Shanghai School which has about 6500 students.
Hope someone else weighs in on this with real info. Google search was a lot of dead ends.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Jul 21, 2006 17:36:25 GMT 7
I worked at SILC (Shanghai Institute of Language and Commerce) for a year and a half. Let me please be the first to warn you away from it. The most foreigner-hostile, manipulative, dishonest, and corrupt administration I've ever directly experienced. It was bad enough when they had foreign "department heads" that could pretend to be an advocate for you. Those have all been swept away and now you're directly under the thumb of the horrible, horrible Associate Dean or whatever her title is now.
I was Business faculty; the English faculty had to work harder for a lot less money. There's a writing class that's a big part of the English program...it created enormous amounts of work for the teachers and generally kept the English faculty on the edge of mutiny at all times. Many went OVER the edge and bolted in the night.
The salaries are good and always on time, but not worth the baggage you'll have to carry there.
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Post by gaisum206 on Jul 21, 2006 17:37:48 GMT 7
Yes, that is the one. Below are some of the information and the ad from the school. They offered me a job as well but the contact I had says I can come on a visitor's visa then they will change it to a work visa. Yes, scary and I have no intention of doing that. Anyway, I guess I have to keep looking and looking.
Shanghai Industry & Commerce Foreign Languages College (SICFL) is a private college founded in April 2001 approved by the Shanghai Municipal Government and accredited by the Ministry of Education of the People¡¯s Republic of China. The SICFL campus is located in the southeast suburb of Shanghai, right between the Pudong International Airport and the new Shanghai International Voyage Center. SICFL is authorized to recruit students from within the State enrollment plan through the national college entrance examination. Upon their graduation after three years of successful study, SICFL students will receive associate-degree diplomas issued by the Ministry of Education, an official educational record acknowledged by the State authorities.
Positions Information
Employment Type: Full Time
Starting Date: March 2006
Contract Duration: 10-month
Teaching Language: Spoken English
Will be Assigned to Teach at: All
Average Class Size: 45 Students/Class
Courses to Teach: Oral English, Reading, Writing, Conversation, British and American literature
Workload: 18-22 per week
Teaching Place: On campus
Course Time: Morning, Afternoon
Other: Some courses may be in the evening, i.e. the training courses for teachers
Benefits
Monthly Salary at RMB: 4000-6000 RMB/month
Overtime Work Allowance: 100 RMB/hour
Airfare Allowance: Round-way airfares for one year contract and one-way airfare for 6-month contract
Travel Allowance: 2,200 RMB for one year contract and 1,100 RMB for 6-month contract
Vacation Allowance: Same with the Chinese staff/colleague
Health Insurance: 2000RMB for one year
Free Chinese Courses per Week: periods /week
Free Meals Provided: Lunch, Cooking utensils provided
Free Housing Provided Include: On campus, Private apartment, Private bedroom, Private bath room, Private living room, Private kitchen, Furniture, Phone, Computer, Wash machine
Sponsor Z visa, Resident's Permit and Foreign Expert Status: Yes
Other Benefits:
Qualifications
Gender: F/M
Age: 22-55
Nationality: USA, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, European
Major: Unspecified
Degree: College, TESOL, BA or above
Teaching Experience:
Other Requirement: We need 4-5 foreign teachers as soon as possible.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Jul 21, 2006 17:46:47 GMT 7
OK, this is a different place.
SILC, the place I worked, caters to the Rich and Stupid and generates obscene, disgusting amounts of money for the lucky cadres who administer it.
SICFL is new and is an attempt to cash in on the success of SILC. Everything I've seen or heard on it indicates that it's pretty much the same poo with different flies on it at least in terms of program. I can't really vouch for the treatment there.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Jul 21, 2006 17:51:41 GMT 7
Oh, yes, one key difference...
SILC is a joint venture with an Australian uni (University of Technology, Sydney) while SICFL is a purely Chinese affair. Hard to say...this may actually be an improvement. The Australians were AT LEAST as crooked as the Chinese, and absolutely useless in terms of enforcing standards, honest practices, or decent treatment.
SICFL may at least not have the huge flow of money rolling around under the tables to help make sure that well-connected kids can "go Australia".
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Post by con's fly is open on Aug 5, 2006 3:12:58 GMT 7
Gaisum, you have a decent resume, and you're over 30. Don't go too cheap.
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