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Post by con's fly is open on Mar 25, 2004 22:43:02 GMT 7
Burl, you're a m'kayin' genius! I used the "I haven't got any ice" routine on the 11 year-olds and- what is that look in their eyes? Hey, SENTIENCE! They understood! And, I should add, the snotty company class gobbled it up, too, and get the whole concept now. Explaining word stresses is hell- apparently Chinese does the same thing; but my students nonetheless make educated guesses as to which words in a sentence should be stressed, and when they're wrong I can't always tell them why. In fact, this should be its own thread downstairs. I added "No, you've got ice" so that there are 5 different questions, each bringing up a different word to stress. All I have to do is come up with more routines as exercises, and my kids will sound almost Canadian.
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Post by burlives on Mar 26, 2004 1:00:13 GMT 7
Well, m'kay!
Nolasco & Lois' Conversation was a revelation for me. Beats the poot outta me where you can get it, for I employed the universal copyright infringement law that makes all things available to all teachers to get my copy but didn't copy the copyrights page. For Ice, they credit someone called Beverly Sedley. Beats me who he may be, but I bet he blames his parents for a lot of things.
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Post by burlives on Mar 26, 2004 1:04:33 GMT 7
Nolasco and Arthur, dammit. Arthur! Sorry Lois.
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Post by con's fly is open on Apr 6, 2004 0:44:08 GMT 7
More thanks to you, Burl! Since the "I don't have any ice" lecture, every student of mine over the age of 9 has undergone a transformation: they speak English like a Westerner! A Westerner who can't speak English, mind you, but without that Chinese insectlike monotone. Since that thorough, simple, humourous example, they get it when I explain what to express in a given sentence. The transformation is breathtaking, and they're improving at an unbelievable rate.
Burl, who do you want killed? First one's on the house.
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Post by burlives on Apr 7, 2004 0:31:04 GMT 7
There's one on the house? Con! What have you done!
Serial murder for stupid rookies, step 4: Under the house.
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Post by burlives on Apr 7, 2004 1:04:52 GMT 7
But, also, it's kinda cool that that stuff works. I used it on college level students but I didn't make it part of anything else so it went nowhere.
Anyway, pride cometh before a fall: the book is full of various kinds of activities on most aspects of speaking but with respect to stress and considering it's for midgits, there's only really one other to try, I Want A Blue One!
It's where you make cards with various permutations of clothing, fabric and colour. You set up a pretend shop and give model sentences for customers that allow substitutions: "I'd like a red woollen dress/blue cotton sweater/black nylon shirt(oh yeah!)" You're the shop keeper, you let the kids know what kinds of things they can ask for and then the kids come to you with some request, like, "I'd like a red cotton dress, please." And you give them a card with most of what they want, maybe a blue cotton dress. The little lord or lady is supposed to reply, stressing the appropriate word,
"No. I asked for a red cotton dress, not a blue one."
After a few rounds you hand out the cards and let them practice on each other. In theory they'll soon be whining like natives.
Get the book. It's chock full o stuff about Speaking style and technique with Beginners stuff up to Advanced.
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Post by con's fly is open on Apr 7, 2004 1:26:47 GMT 7
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Post by burlives on Apr 7, 2004 1:50:40 GMT 7
Goddamn, Con! The book I cited back up there:
Conversation -- Rob Nolasco & Lois Arthur, Oxford University Press, 1987.
And there I was thinking people were hanging on my every word.
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Post by con's fly is open on Apr 7, 2004 1:56:46 GMT 7
The one that's not published anymore, that you can't find anywhere? Oh hurrah, I'm saved.
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Post by burlives on Apr 7, 2004 2:07:55 GMT 7
I borrowed it from a guy. He kept it on the 'fridge. It gets a mention on iteslj and Amazon's got it. That's all I know. It might be in a Shanghai bookstore or you might try your luck buying online and getting it mailed. I figure it for a fairly standard text so there'll be copies around. Mine is in the sweaty hands of an excitable Chinese teacher and I haven't seen it in a while. Ask around.
[And since I'm editing, sorry about the letdown too.]
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Post by con's fly is open on Apr 7, 2004 11:24:26 GMT 7
Amazon? Oh, that's different. I'll poke into it. In the meantime I'll try that idea you posted: "Oh, the big, red SHORT pants!"
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Post by Steiner on Apr 20, 2004 20:56:25 GMT 7
Hey Burl, I'm using your lesson this week. It's pretty good for the ones who aren't asleep.
I've added the sentence, "I never said he stole money!" We work on the different meanings if different words are stressed. So I'll ask a kid, "Did you say he stole money?" The student has to reply with "I never said he stole money! I said she stole it." Next student I ask, "Did you say he stole money?" Student replies, "I never said he stole money! I said he stole a car!" Or book, or whatever. And so on. I accuse different students and they love it. They accuse each other and they love it.
I guess it's working. We'll find out for sure in a couple weeks.
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Post by burlives on Apr 20, 2004 23:37:42 GMT 7
A: "Everyone's got -- you know." B: "I never" A: "Not even--" B: "Nooo. Never!" A: "--a little--" B: "There's no money, no money!" A: "...ice?" B: "Mommy, make the teacher stop."
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Post by Steiner on Apr 21, 2004 19:02:34 GMT 7
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Post by con's fly is open on Apr 22, 2004 13:55:12 GMT 7
Burl, Steiner: I've read this Stole the Money lesson again and again, but I'm just too stupid to figure out how to explain it. Could you spell it out for me, using grunts and monosyllables? Thanks.
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Post by Steiner on Apr 22, 2004 15:51:43 GMT 7
Okay, first disregard Burl's last post. That was a parody. When I said I'd added the sentence "I never said he stole money," I didn't mean I had meshed it with Burl's dialogues. I use it at the beginning of class to explain the importance of stress in a sentence. I write the sentence on the board:
I never said he stole money.
Underneath, I write: 1. He said it. 2. I didn't! 3. I only thought it. 4. I said she did. 5. I said he found money. 6. I said he stole a car.
I tell them that depending on the stress, the sentence can have any of these six implications. Then we go through and I demonstrate how to stress. That's kind of important because they need to be taught that after the stressed word, your voice usually drops lower than its original pitch. For example, let's say you want to stress he. Your voice is at a normal pitch for I never said, and then rises to a high pitch for he, and then drops lower than its original pitch for stole money. It's easy to show using hand motions and drawing on the board. I draw a line just under I never said, and then up above he, and then back down below (far below) stole money. It sounds complicated, but it's not. They catch on quickly. And they quickly realize that the stressed word is the one being emphasized.
(Oh, at the beginning I also teach them the word "syllable" and make sure they know about stressed syllables--once again, easier to do by giving a bunch of examples than by verbal explanation.)
I then read the sentence, stressing a different word each time, and the students tell me which of the six implied meanings I have in mind. They usually do really well with it. Then they practice saying the sentence, stressing different words each time. The thing they have the most problems with is dropping their voices lower than normal pitch after the stressed word.
After this (I know, it sounds like it takes forever, but it doesn't take as long as it sounds. Usually.), I erase the six sub-meanings and write "Did you say he stole money?" I tell them I will ask individual students this question. They have to listen to which word I stress when I ask, and reply with "I never said he stole money", stressing the right word. So if I ask, "Did you say he stole money?", then the student should answer, "I never said he stole money." Then I ask, "What did you say?" The student replies, "I said he stole a car." Or a book, or a pen, or whatever. Then I ask a different student, stressing a different word. And so on.
Perhaps this is crap methodology, I don't know. They seem to enjoy it. After all I've described above, I move on to Burl's "Ice and lemon" dialogue.
If you need me to explain more, or want to criticize me, or need more grunting, let me know.
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Post by con's fly is open on Apr 22, 2004 22:44:23 GMT 7
Xie xie. I'll try it out on Saturday.
English 900 teaches intonation, but provides absolutely no guidelines as to why one word in particular is stressed. I'm trying to show them, but the principles are sinking in slowly. they still just imitate. How long does it take to get a natural feel for it, I wonder? I'm still getting corrected on pronouncinf yi er san si wo...
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Post by con's fly is open on May 7, 2004 11:52:17 GMT 7
Well, Gonzo, I finally got around to trying it, and it was a success. Predictably, accusing each other tickled them, as did the notion of stealing a car. It's also a pleasure to listen to one of them pronounce the words perfectly, answer " ", have them stare at me, then see the light blink on. And the bullying I've done about intonation has really knocked the insect English out of them. I can mock them for-re-ci-ting-Eng-lish-in-a-mo-no-tone and they know why I'm being a jerk. But I have to figure out a way for them to start using this as a game to accuse each other- it was a little choppy. Next time I'll have to think of some rules so that they can start using the exercise to insult each other. And I gotta think up more exercises. These kick ass for improving oral english.
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Post by Lotus Eater on May 30, 2004 6:57:03 GMT 7
Thanks for the 'stole money' routine. Being a good non-plagiarising student I turned it into Did you say he stole the DVD?, demonstrated it, broke the class into groups of 4 (there are 44 of them). They ahd to take it in turns asking and answering, with the additional students checking to make certain the 'right' question was answered. The question give you 6 stress options. After a few rounds the students created their own questions to stress (without me suggesting it!!).
The other one I have used is Where did you get that hat? Another 6-stresser.
For ensuring they use and listen for punctuation, I use "Woman without her man is useless"
Woman, without her, man is useless. Woman with her man, is useless.
They love that one!
University students - will try it with older adults today .....
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Ruth
SuperDuperMegaBarfly
God's provisions are strategically placed along the path of your obedience.
Posts: 3,915
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Post by Ruth on May 30, 2004 7:52:26 GMT 7
Thanks for the additional ideas, Lotus. Yesterday I tried teaching stress to my private primary kids (grades 4-6 - kids of co-workers). They weren't getting it, so I moved on to the part of the lesson where they give me commands to point to or touch something in the room. One boy told me to touch the window and I touched the wall. He said "WINDOW" with the perfect amount of stress, because I had obviously made an error. I was then able to use it as an object lesson. One of those Eureka! moments.
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Da Dan
Barfly
the weather is here............ wish You were beautiful
Posts: 105
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Post by Da Dan on Jun 1, 2004 19:18:28 GMT 7
Great thread here folks, `Thanks ! please feel free to add to it
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Post by con's fly is open on Jun 1, 2004 21:19:10 GMT 7
OK
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Post by MK on Jun 2, 2004 1:30:48 GMT 7
I taught kids in Korea. Games of any kind are good...harder with big classes though.....I always had a ball of some kind and an over-sized dice (u can make these yourself pretty easily) with me in class. There are loads of ideas for teaching kids over at you know where: www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=20644
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proust
Upstanding Citizen
Posts: 84
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Post by proust on Jun 9, 2004 14:13:19 GMT 7
Okay. How to do it.
Credentials: Degrees (including a doctorate) in English and pedagogy. Licensed as a secondary-school teacher in the U.S. Have taught at three universities in Shanghai.
Disclaimer: Nothing really works, but this seems closest to working for me. Further disclaimer: There is nothing here that a bright lad/lass couldn't pick up in a week on the job.
I. Axiom: There is no such thing as teaching--the best you will ever do is facilitate learning. Corollary: You can't force anyone to learn.
II. If they are sleeping, insist on talking while you're talking, or are insubordinate, toss 'em out of class for the day.
III. Periodically move the back row to the front row. NOTE: Do not attempt to separate bonded pairs, such as female roommates.
IV. Frequently and randomly ask individual students what you've just said.
V. Put key words from what you've just said on the chalkboard. Everything you put on the chalkboard should go into a notebook each student maintains for this purpose. Check these notebooks frequently.
VI. Forget homework. Most students won't do it, and if they do do it, you only creating extra work for yourself.
VII. There's nothing wrong with appropriate applications of ridicule directed at individuals (not the whole class). Forget this "face" crap.
VIII. Co-teachers give bad advice, and, in general, are no help.
IX. Question, question, question. Never answer a question without asking a question in return. Always use open-ended questions, of course.
X. Take your own roll for every class. Corollary: Do not trust the monitors, either the identified ones or the covert ones. They are there to nail you, not to help you.
XI. Contrary to what you may have been told, politics and religion make lively topics. Just CYA by frequently reminding them that you're not proselytizing. Frequently define the word "proselytizing."
XII. Keep smiling. This will confuse them. They will say you are "kind."
And XIII. Anything you think you have accomplished will be subverted somewhere along the line. Corollary: "No good deed goes unpunished."
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Post by Hamish on Jun 9, 2004 16:58:15 GMT 7
Beautiful!
I believe every word and try to live by 'em.
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