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Post by Jollyjunklass on Jun 14, 2005 5:24:32 GMT 7
Can someone help me here, I don't know where to put this, but I have a question. Is there any benefit to signing a six month contract as opposed to a year contract. How does the job situation look in the middle of the year, January, I think. In away, I think it might work for me because I may not like it there, or I may just want to try a new area. What do you guys have to say about this. What are the pitfalls of this.
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Post by Jollyjunklass on Jun 14, 2005 5:28:49 GMT 7
I just want to let you guys know, for future reference I got two very bad reviews from different people who taught at Ningbo Huamao Foreign Languages School. Apparently no one has managed to make it through a full year. Also, for anyone looking to find information on schools there is an excellent mentor's list here teflchina.org/jobs/mentors/index.htmlI just received a third on Ningbo, boy are they nasty, and to think the guy sounded like a real sweetheart. I feel like emailing him the letters, minus names and emails of course, but, I won't.
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Post by con's fly is open on Jun 14, 2005 6:55:40 GMT 7
As you say, you contain the risk with a 6 monther.
The downside: you only earn a one-way ticket. At the six month mrak you are just beginning to have a significant impact on your students, and you'll leave feeling the job was undone. And if they didn't insist on a full year deal, there's a chance they don't want you for any longer.
Food for thought.
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Post by Jollyjunklass on Jun 14, 2005 7:20:08 GMT 7
Con,
There is a school I really want to go to because of it's location, however the guy is leaving too much of the payout to the end of the year contract. I also don't feel I trust him totally, you get a bonus each month if you have done a good job, stuff like that. A lot of the contract is iffy and much is left up to his discrimination. So my thinking was if I ask for a six month contract and I don't like it I can leave. I have getting email replies from other teachers and many have been fired a month before the year end, receiving nothing they were promised. What do you think?
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woza17
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Post by woza17 on Jun 14, 2005 7:54:52 GMT 7
I would definitely go for the 6 months. There are lots of schools hiring for the second semester. I think I would go with my gut feeling on this guy that you have mentioned a few times.
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Post by con's fly is open on Jun 14, 2005 7:58:51 GMT 7
Yeah, if it smells rotten from Canada, odds are it (he) is. The quality of the offer is less important than your confidence that it's legit.
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Post by Jollyjunklass on Jun 14, 2005 9:22:57 GMT 7
In terms of money in China is there a large difference between RMB 3000 and 5000.
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Post by burlives on Jun 14, 2005 9:52:27 GMT 7
The difference between 3000 and 5000 is location. For a bog-standard job in a public school in the middle of China 3000 is a little low -- 3500 to 4000 is more like right. For a similarly bog-standard job in a public school in the eastern provinces 5000 is the average salary. For bog-standard training centers add 1-2000 to those numbers. Incidentally, as far as public schools go, you can do a lot worse than going here for a year. Small town Henan is one of the better places to start out and the situation in that particular school is great. On the question of six month contracts versus one year contracts, Woza and Con are both right. Using a six month contract gives you an edge on a bad boss but in a good place it'll leave you with the feeling only half finished when the contract's up. My advice is that you hunt up a good school as best you can and stay for a year. If you choose well, you might even want to stay for two.
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Post by Jollyjunklass on Jun 14, 2005 10:17:11 GMT 7
Thanks Burl,
And thank-you for the link. The 3000, plus 400 monthly, depending on how the student's assess me is in Yangshou, the other one is in Giangsu in a city called Huaiyin.
Another question on advice if you don't mind. I have been dealing back and forth with a school in Ningbo. However, today I received some very nasty comments, all to do with him. They weren't tiny problems, they were down right insulting. I emailed the guy back and told him I was no longer interested in the school. He emailed me back with this.
Hi Millana, I am wondering why you all of sudden quit your employment at our school. Are there any reasons? Or because of our benefits? Please email me once more, just to tell me the truth. Would that be okay? Expecting to hear from you shortly.
I am getting ready to tell him the truth, no names mentioned, would that be a mistake. The people who wrote me want me to tell him why I will not accept the job. What do you think?
I really do want to let him now why, maybe then he will ponder on his abuse. But, I don't want to have my self up a creek with no paddle.
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Post by burlives on Jun 14, 2005 11:10:32 GMT 7
I really do want to let him now why, maybe then he will ponder on his abuse. But, I don't want to have my self up a creek with no paddle. It sounds like you're having fun, but I sincerely doubt you'll teach him any lessons. Chinese live in a Chinese world, and to some extent that world goes crazy when a foreigner walks in -- some Chinese handle it and some don't. The guy you're dealing with sounds like someone who has discovered how easily tradeable a commodity a foreigner is, and how easy it is to apply Chinese economics to the situation. Which is my nice way of saying there's plenty of other jobs in the sea and you don't have to deal with the scum on the shore. It's one of the blunt realities of working here that there are a lot of people who view you as an easily disposable tool. Also, I think you might be limiting your options quite a bit by focusing on the supposed garden spots. There are undoubtedly some beautiful places in China (and Ningbo isn't one of them), but when you're working, you'll be working. See, Chinese are sterilising their own culture at a great rate. Where I am for example, there's a great little street called YangJiaQun. It's a road just big enough for two small cars to squeak past each other but they usually don't because there's always so many people walking through. It's lined with restuarants, haircutting places, and tiny "welfare" shops. It has little alleyways that branch off to seedy hotels and miniture rooms where students live with the partners. It's being levelled. Half of it is already gone. The road has been widened and concreted and the sidewalks are tiled and bare. (Ludicrously, the poles holding up the telephone and power cables are where they always were, only now that puts them square in the middle of one car lane of the road.) It's going to be another blank street of walls. That kind of stuff goes on wherever there is enough money for the local government to siphon off a fat cat's living for themselves. And while all of that is well and truly out of your sphere of influence, it influences your daily life here by changing th environment in which you amble around looking for beer. Go for broke. Judge the job ads by looking for the city in your Lonely Planet or Rough Guide. That's what I do. I look for bodies of water, population stats and entries that don't inculde "heavy industry". And so, in summary, ... um... ah.... yeah.
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Lager
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Post by Lager on Jun 14, 2005 17:12:27 GMT 7
Millana---I haven't followed all of this but get a 6-month or one term contract. The reason is it should be easier to extend a contract than try and get out of one.
Nothing has changed my mind yet that a College is the best deal here. Is it Ningbo you are set on?
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Post by acjade on Jun 14, 2005 18:59:00 GMT 7
Millana---I haven't followed all of this but get a 6-month or one term contract. The reason is it should be easier to extend a contract than try and get out of one. Nothing has changed my mind yet that a College is the best deal here. Is it Ningbo you are set on? DITTO!!!
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Post by Jollyjunklass on Jun 14, 2005 19:27:19 GMT 7
No Lager, Ningbo is a definite no, the reviews from that school were unbelievable.
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Post by Jollyjunklass on Jun 14, 2005 20:32:38 GMT 7
Hey Guys,
Well I did what I said I was going to do about the school with the bad reputation, and Burl you may be a little shocked by the reply I received back. I thought he was going to try to ban me from the country all together. To be honest, I was a touch nervous about doing this, but the guy asked for my honesty, so I gave it to him, in hopes that he might make some effort to clean up his school. I am going to bleep the names here because I don't feel that's fair, but here is his reply,
Hi Millana, What you said is true. But all this happened in the past, maybe in the years 2002 to 2003. The first article was written by xxxxxx, an American, now he is in Shanghai. He is my good old friend. We still keep in contact with each other. He mentioned an 28-old-year young man.Last year he left our department for Shanghai. At that time he was our director. Now everything has changed. The International Dept. has been re-organized. I am in charge of foreign teachers' affairs. We have drawn lessons from the past. Now I adhere to the contract in dealing with any foreign teachers' affairs. Furthermore, I always correct what is wrong and stick to what is right. If you don't trust me or don't believe what I said, you can write emails to our present foreign teachers to make some investigations to prove my words. I can provide you at least 2 or 3 present foreign teachers' email addresses if you need.
Expect to hear from you once again and let's resume our negotiations. If not, it would be a pity for you to quit a nice and ideal teaching position, and I would be sorry that I cannot hire a qualified and certicated teacher as my colleague. Please re-consider my offer. I shall for ever appreciate you airing frank and candid opinions on our work. Please re-browse at xxxxxx Search: xxxxxx Please have a second look at my photo. I am much older than 28. I think this is true. Upon reading your email, I have written such a long email. I may know what feelings I have now! I beg you to offer me a kind reply once more! Best wishes,
See, Burl, I think he is sincere, some people do care.
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Post by burlives on Jun 14, 2005 21:09:12 GMT 7
See, Burl, I think he is sincere, some people do care. I suppose so. That's a nice touch.
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Post by Jollyjunklass on Jun 14, 2005 21:34:04 GMT 7
LOL, Millana pulling hair out,
UGHHHHHHHHH, are you telling me this guy is full of poo too.
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Post by Lotus Eater on Jun 14, 2005 21:47:43 GMT 7
You aren't going to be able to tell until you are actually here. There are dodgy people out there, there are dodgy people at home. It won't be 100% perfect anywhere. But for 16 hours per week, for 6 months (which includes holidays, weekends etc) you can figure out the system, decide if you can live with the imperfections. If not - move on! There will always be another school, and you'll have more experience about knowing what you want in this strange new world.
Once you are here your expectations will change, and the longer you stay, the more your wants will also change.
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Post by Jollyjunklass on Jun 14, 2005 21:55:49 GMT 7
Thanks for the advice Lotus, if things keep up at this rate I'll be an alky before I leave here.
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Post by Lotus Eater on Jun 14, 2005 22:34:03 GMT 7
You'll fit in well then!
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Post by Raoul Duke on Jun 14, 2005 23:26:21 GMT 7
Millana, ya found it. I tend to like the full year contracts. More benefits, and sometimes you'll be amazed at how fast 6 months will go by. Sometimes a full year will do the same thing. You'll also have more choices in the job hunt...more employers tend to prefer to (hopefully) solve their recruiting headaches for a full year at one stroke. Don't take anything where a substantial cut of your pay is held until the end of your contract. This simply screams "Abusive Situation! This Owner Thinks You're Stupid!" A bonus is fine, but not withheld pay. When an owner says "I'm going to start honoring my contracts now", you should be in a full run and well out the door before he finishes the sentence. If you refuse a job because of the negative comments you've seen, say so. You may not want to include the messages- even without names they may be able to link incidents with people. But at least say that he's apparently left a trail of angry, victimized teachers in his wake and that you don't care to join them. Teaching English, Business, etc. are well and good. Teaching the fact that our actions really do have consequences (and occasional short courses in Public Manners) are even better.
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Post by Jollyjunklass on Jun 15, 2005 12:05:29 GMT 7
Can someone explain this clause to me, I am seeing it often and don't quit get what they are trying to say.
There are 5 continuos days in May, and 5 continuous days in October and 60 days in summer and 20 days in winter and christmas 3 days new years 2 days. If some important activities of party A happen to be on holidays. The employee will attend as well and Party A shall make up the holidays or pay him her the employee is not allowed to ask for leave of tour except in holidays.
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Ruth
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Post by Ruth on Jun 15, 2005 12:10:17 GMT 7
Sounds like a sneaky clause where they can get you to work on the holidays that they just promised you.
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Post by Jollyjunklass on Jun 15, 2005 12:13:51 GMT 7
Thx Ruth, That's what it sounds like to me too. Like, you can take your holidays, but if we have business at the time , you don't go anywhere.
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Newbs
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Post by Newbs on Jun 15, 2005 14:58:12 GMT 7
Millana
The explanation is quite simple TIFC In other words, expect the unexpected, but expect to be told at the last minute. After awhile you can really learn to go with the flow, and having an extra class, or one less class doesn't faze you.
Having to work on a weekend sucks big time, but
Newbs
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woza17
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Post by woza17 on Jun 15, 2005 16:23:53 GMT 7
His English is good Millana and does sound sincere and things do change quickly in China. Why don't you come to Dalian? Check out my new post on the wankers board. Look, if you take a 6 month contract and you decide you like it and they like you, of course they will offer another contract. Burl's advice about the "garden cities" is so succint. I have never used that word before I thought I would try it out. Did it work? Cheers Woza
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