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Post by Lotus Eater on Oct 21, 2006 2:18:50 GMT 7
Wo bu mingbai basically means "I will NEVER understand" . Is this what you really want to say?
Otherwise - "wo hai mei mingbai" I don't yet understand.
Offence is easily taken here.
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teleplayer
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Post by teleplayer on Oct 21, 2006 4:22:55 GMT 7
Wo bu mingbai basically means "I will NEVER understand" . Is this what you really want to say? Otherwise - "wo hai mei mingbai" I don't yet understand. Offence is easily taken here. Lotus, I suspect that EL got this straight off Pimsleur I just as I did. "Wo bu ming bai. Ni shuo shenme?" I don't understand. What did you say? So, perhaps wrong but that's what the omnipotent "they" of the acclaimed Pimsleur are teaching "usuns what don't know no better." I recently was informed by one of my Grad Students that I can certainly say, "Welcome Tingbudong xiaojie," but I best not just say "wecome xiaojie" because this would put her with the late night pink salon operators. The other tidbit was that I might, at a "Party Rally" say, "weclome Ugly Laowai tongzhi," but I wouldn't just say, "welcome tongzhi" (welcome comrade) because this would imply that I saw him as one who "walks with an unmanly swish" and has a "weak wrist." But you're in country. Have you heard this? For now I just say, Ms Tingbudong and Ugly Laowai, welcome! Have a drink on EL and Lotus!!
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Escaped Lunatic
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Post by Escaped Lunatic on Oct 21, 2006 5:49:36 GMT 7
Can't recall where I got it (don't think it was Pimsler). Of the few Chinese speakers I've tried it on, all of them went with "I don't understand" as opposed to "I'll never understand". Either way works on a t-shirt. "This stupid American thinks this t-shirt says something cool." - one of my t-shirts
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Post by George61 on Oct 21, 2006 6:50:55 GMT 7
This is what I have heard. And "wo ting bu dong" as I don't understand.
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Ruth
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Post by Ruth on Oct 21, 2006 6:54:42 GMT 7
The pink lady interpretation is correct in my neck of the woods, Teleplayer. Don't know about the other phrases you mentioned. Here it is NOT polite to call a waitress 'xiao jie' because of recent (past few years) negative connotations. We use fuwuyuan (spelling?) to call waiters and waitresses.
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Post by Dr. Gonzo on Oct 21, 2006 8:41:59 GMT 7
My ball and chain has told me that "ting bu dong" means I don't understand what you're saying, whereas "bu ming bai" means not understanding the concept of what you're saying, though knowing the different words used. These have been the way I've used them for some years now without diplomatic incidents. Ting bu dong works well with petty officialdom: ticket inspectors, people who try to stop you taking photos of military installations, checkout chicks asking if you've got a members discount card etc. They just give up. Or just say "meiyou" to anything anyone asks you; very Chinese that.
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Post by mich on Oct 21, 2006 9:00:51 GMT 7
I always thought that 'bu dong' means, 'I don't know'
whereas 'ming bai' means, 'I see'...'bu ming bai' ..'I don't see'
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Post by mich on Oct 21, 2006 9:03:08 GMT 7
ooops, sorry...back to what I was initially going to do...
welcome to all the new members...pull up a chair and listen to out useless rambling and opinions intelligent conversation and advice.
cheers
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Post by Mr Nobody on Oct 21, 2006 9:04:50 GMT 7
What Gonzo said is what I have been taught and use, with the same response. Seems to work. However, I got that bu ming bai means 'I don't understand the situation', so it can be used more broadly, such as when you don't know what is going on (such as when everyone around you in a queue just packs up and leaves for no apparent reason), not just what is being said in conversation. I will check later.
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Escaped Lunatic
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Civet Burger? Sounds tempting. Can I get fries with that?
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Post by Escaped Lunatic on Oct 21, 2006 9:12:17 GMT 7
>I got that bu ming bai means 'I don't understand the situation', so it can be used more broadly,
And it should be slightly better than trying to get "I am a clueless dolt" translated into Chinese.
"Stupid Pervert" - another shirt in my "bad things to wear in China or Japan" collection
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Post by Lotus Eater on Oct 21, 2006 9:35:33 GMT 7
Xiaojie and tongzhi aren't good things to call people. Fuwuyuan (pronounced fuyuar in this area) works for calling all wait staff to you - as does Laoban or laobanniang (boss, bosses's wife). Ting bu dong works for 'I don't understand' as does "Bu mingbaile". But both imply a finality - whereas hai mei added to things implies that at some stage in the future you might get it! I use this one frequently during my Chinese classes! I use ming bai to demonstrate I understand 'intent' whereas bu dong I use as demonstrating lack of understanding of speech, hanzi, etc. So even if I don't understand every word, I can still use 'mingbaile' if I understand what they mean or want to do.
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Post by Dr. Gonzo on Oct 21, 2006 10:02:44 GMT 7
The shift in meaning for "Xiao jie" is quite recent.The move towards it meaning "prostitute" has only come in the last 5-6 years. It was fine 10 years ago, and was in common use for waitress. "Tong zhi" was used during the early years of Communist China, meaning "comrade". To use it now, unless in jest with someone you know well, is anachronistic; possibly insulting for a man who possesses his very own bicycle repair stand. I had a message shirt made up that, on the front, read "lao wai lai le", and on the back, "lao wai zou le". This saved people the trouble of stating the bleeding obvious.
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teleplayer
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Post by teleplayer on Oct 21, 2006 10:20:04 GMT 7
Laoban, a round on me for our newest members Ms Tingbudong and her companion Ugly Laowai. Seems they've caused quite an idiomatic conversation. We better let them have our only "comfy booth" since this may take a while.
To follow up, I'll inform my Grad Student source that I have confirmed her updated understanding of "xiaojie" and our older postdoc's understanding of "tongzhi." (Some of you will appreciate his somewhat humorous intimation that "tongzhi" was just someting said during cold war to placate the Soviets.)
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teleplayer
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Post by teleplayer on Oct 21, 2006 10:30:04 GMT 7
Forgot to add, Ruth, Pimsleur does use the "fuwuyuan" (SP?) for wait staff, male or female.
Well, language, all languages are in flux, so we find a place to start and get corrected as we go. Just think, today, we're "party people." IN 1890 we'd be "gay." hmmmm (If I wasn't at home on the coal-fired unit I'd insert the little blue head scatcher icon.)
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Post by Lotus Eater on Oct 21, 2006 10:37:33 GMT 7
Is little sister/young lady xiao3jie4 with 4th tone and prositute xiaojie with 3rd tone? (or is it the other way around??)
Xiao3jie3 also means to urinate - so be careful!
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Post by Dr. Gonzo on Oct 21, 2006 11:57:11 GMT 7
Urinate[v] is pai niao or xiao bian, according to my Li'l Bastards Concise OUP Dictionary. I always used the latter. Interestingly, Xiao Jie doesn't rate a mention as meaning prostitute. This was in 1996 though. Who says Chinese isn't a dynamic language! I don't know what Tingbudong must think of us!
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Post by Mr Nobody on Oct 21, 2006 14:08:23 GMT 7
Yes, here xiao bian is urinate. Da bian is the other.
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Ruth
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Post by Ruth on Oct 21, 2006 14:31:53 GMT 7
That's funny Mr. N. When I was a kid my mom taught us to say 'big job' or 'little job' depending on what we had to do in the cesuo. Da, xiao - I can remember that.
Teleplayer - by all means steer our newest members to the comfy booth. Someone block the door 'cause they might be trying to leave after hearing this conversation.
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Newbs
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Post by Newbs on Oct 21, 2006 14:38:56 GMT 7
"Tong zhi" was used during the early years of Communist China, meaning "comrade".. And a Chinese teacher told me that nowadays "tongzhi" is slang for homosexual, just as "gay" is in English.
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Post by Lotus Eater on Oct 22, 2006 0:25:17 GMT 7
Xiao3jie3 is definitely in my dictrionary as to urinate, pass/make water. Xiao3bian4 is urinate/urine/penis. Xiaobianchi - urinal.
Just like English - more than one word for the same function.
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Post by cheekygal on Oct 22, 2006 2:05:48 GMT 7
In Beijing and Qingdao MING BAI is a normal expression for *get it/understand*. If you say WO BU MING BAI in Beijing it would simply mean I DONT UNDERSTAND. There is no NEVER connotation used around here...
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Post by joe on Oct 22, 2006 2:23:53 GMT 7
Dictionary One (Concise E-C / C-E Dictionary, New Edition, Martin h Manser, 1999):
prostitute: (noun) chang1li4; nan2ji4 whore (noun): ji1nv3 Miss: xiao3jie3
Dictionary Two (Oxford Starter Chinese Dictionary, first ed., BoPing Yuan and Sally K Church, 2000)
Miss: xiao3jie.
Actually, I was always taught that last one. "Xiao" with a tone and "jie" without, to mean Miss.
Speak in sentences and speak fast. Just like English, context provides the communication.
Failing that, just call everyone nv3zhao1dai4
But the appropriate appelation when calling a place of business and wanting to speak with someone in charge is, "Yo3 Xiao3jie ma." It works better over the phone than in person.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Oct 22, 2006 9:04:03 GMT 7
Yeah, but those dictionaries translate jiaozi as dumpling and ni hao as hello. Which they ain't.
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Post by joe on Oct 22, 2006 9:16:59 GMT 7
Know what, I used to get pissed off when people wouldn't repeat with emphasis their names the five or six times it would take for me to catch up with the pronunciation and tones. Then it occurred to me that I accept all sorts of odd variations on my own name without offering correction.
So I think getting ahold of the language in the first years of ones study is at least as much about communication strategies --speaking in sentences, winking and nodding, attempting variation of what you mean-- as it is about correct pronunciation and grammar. And if I'm in the mood then when I get helloed on the street I am more than happy to call out "Ni hao jiaozi" and think I am saying hello dumpling, which I ain't.
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Post by PP on Oct 23, 2006 14:39:05 GMT 7
Xiao3jie3 does mean both miss and urinate, but people don't use that often for urinate; people often say jie3 xiao3 shou3, or jie3 da4 shou3; or just simply say:xiao(3)de--stands for xiao3 bian4, or da4 de for da4 bian4. there are other ways of saying Urinate and poo respectively: like da4 hao4; xiao3 hao4; niao4 niao4(pee) or la1 ba3 ba3(poo)--baby words--used often by various level of students though
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