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Post by Dr. Gonzo on Apr 18, 2005 4:50:59 GMT 7
Ditto to Raoul on the need for a mobile. You should be able to get a reasonable 2nd hand one for Y300, and then sell it for as much when you leave. You'll need a Chinese friend to do the deal, or the price will magically double. Maybe Senor Duke's bowels are more reciddivistic [sp?] than mine, but our family found the grey anti-poo powder worked well. Shots: Get rabies! Malaria: Like he said. Ditto Jap. Encephalitis. Have you said where you'll be yet? Lots of things depend on location.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Apr 18, 2005 6:58:35 GMT 7
Rabies shot? I have a whole series being done, nobody (generic nobody, not the real fake me) mentioned rabies. Hep a and b, typhoid, a bunch i already had. No need for JE according to my doc, and the vaccine is risky. The chinese one is better since it is a fully killed one and the western one isn't or something. Didn't investigate, but then i am going to the south east. Malaria there, but JE not so much, i think only one case or so. I will check on the matter. And i am going to get a flu shot too, just in case. Edited in later: Got it backwards, the chinese one isn't fully dead, the one from the west is, and the chinese one (NOTE WELL - THIS chinese one is the best, the one below, others are worse than western ones) is more effective, (99% rather than 94%) less shots (1 not 3) and fewer side effects. Probably vastly cheaper too. from here :http://www.hkma.com.hk/latestnews/japanese_encephalitis_virus.htm snip: (3). Cell-culture-derived live attenuated vaccine. (95), (96), (97), (98), (99), (100), (101). Chengdu Institute of Biological Products. This is made in China. It is based on a stable neuro-attenuated JE strain (SA-14-14-2) grown in primary hamster kidney cells. A single dose induces an antibody response in 80% in children aged six to seven years. In older children given two doses at one to three months there is a 94-100% antibody response. 40 million doses are distributed annually in China. One study followed over 13,000 vaccinated children and confirmed the safety of the vaccine. No case of encephalitis or meningitis was observed. Since 1989 over 120 million children have been immunized at ages 1, 2 and 6 years old. A study was conducted in 1999 in Nepal and the vaccine had a protective efficacy of 99.3% after a single dose. The authors recommend that a single dose regime be used rather than a multiple dose regime. Also, china has TB problem, plus one strain that doesn't respond to treatment. So get a TB shot if you are in those areas as well.
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Post by Lotus Eater on Apr 18, 2005 7:41:41 GMT 7
CC - Confucius Curse = Delhi Belly etc. Giardia, diahhrea and vomiting etc. Fisherman's Friends are truly different - but I did survive them, but forgot to bring them. Re herbs - in my trip east I will consider getting some herbs - depends on how many books I collect from you lot and buy!
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Post by Raoul Duke on Apr 18, 2005 9:37:32 GMT 7
Millana, please bear in mind that the good Doctor tends to both eat a lot of cheese and foam at the mouth. Fisherman's Friends are not Australian, they've just been sold there a long time. I think they originate in New England (USA) but it's possible that they are from Old England.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Apr 18, 2005 9:41:56 GMT 7
Fisherman's Friends are not Australian, they've just been sold there a long time. I think they originate in New England (USA) but it's possible that they are from Old England. Well, that explains their overpoweringly disgusting taste. The original owners can please come on over and pick up the rest of them at their leisure.
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Post by Dr. Gonzo on Apr 18, 2005 9:49:03 GMT 7
FF's do indeed originate in the Old Dart. Rabies? Monkeys, rats, cats, bats,dogs, Raoul Duke: Dey ALL got rabies!! The monkeys get pooty when you don't feed them. Raoul when you don't grovel and buy him libations.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Apr 18, 2005 10:28:50 GMT 7
I am sure Raoul won't bite me unless i bite him first, and the rest of the list I won't bite unless they are cooked first.
I do tend to catch animals if i see them and check them out and let them go, so maybe i should.
And just in case "A drink for the bartender, this time on Dr Gonzo!!". Do you think that will help? ;D
So does anyone recommend rabies shots? Any body else have rabies?
All the stuff i see is more applicable to travellers not expats. anything else i am missing? I am not enamoured of china's medical levels at all. If i can get it I will. BTW, the best place to get the JE shot seems to be HK. Anything not listed on the fine documents found in the links pages?
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Post by Mr Nobody on Apr 18, 2005 12:25:39 GMT 7
Just read the Vaccinations thread again. I must explain something very important.
If you do not time the boosters correctly they do not work.
Waste of time, money and risky.
each type has a different optimal period for the booster.
often, such as in hep shots, the initial one is INEFFECTIVE without the follow up. With Hep shots it should be at least 3 months later, preferably 6 months.
Zero protection. If you leave it too long, the second one works as if it is the first one, and also needs a booster.
Typhoid is 2 weeks.
Tetanus doesn't matter about the timing, but in china i would say 5 years, or if rural, 2 years apart.
Polio, the oz one is fine for life. So is the diptheria one. The TB one is also. I am sure you can have blood tests to check to see if they are active, though.
The flu one is one that should be a given but see few places other than here recommending it. Needs to be yearly.
Malaria vaccine is on its way, but not here yet. Can take a course of anti malarial drugs which offer protection for longer, slowly fading, but giving some immunity long term. I have been given to understand that the ones in china are ineffective.
Still don't know about rabies.
So, try to do it right, guys. Do not disregard the boosters. They aren't just to lift it up they ARE the treatment. Boosters are a bad name for them.
Think of the first one as a potentiator, with a minimal and slow response. the second an initiator, so that the response is sharp and marked, and more significant. This means when you get the actual disease, the immune system responds immediately and markedly, not sluggishly and belatedly.
Then think of later shots as boosters to teach your immune system what the response to the real disease should be. Immediate, full, and violent.
I could go on about it in detail if you want, i did a mini thesis thing on this sort of thing for my final year of immunology. (also wrote a book about a pandemic, so researched that thoroughtly also. Didn't get published though)
Maybe this topic needs its own thread, and/or a sticky. Too important.
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Post by Jollyjunklass on Apr 18, 2005 12:30:36 GMT 7
I think I might take that rabies shot seriously Mr. Nobody. I can't seem to remember where, maybe through my consulate, not sure though, but, the rabies shot was highly recommended. I recall being kinda shocked because I always thought...rabies...cats, dogs,racoons and things. But this wasn't what they were carrying on about. I wish I knew the website to link you up to , if I come across it I'll post it. They were carrying on, and don't quote me, about worms and things, if I remember correctly it was swimming creatures and such. These are the things that carry rabies in China. In the next couple of days, I'll see if I can find it.
I know I will be getting every shot that is even, slightly, recommended, better safe than sorry. About 10 years ago my brother caught a bad case of hepatitis B while over there, and he said it was a nightmare. Especially didn't enjoy his hospital stay in the "foriegn land". With every vaccination there is risk but when it comes to poo like that I think I'd take it.
By the way, did you just get all your shots recently? I'm not sure where you are from, but how much do you figure they were in total. I believe our government pays for some, unlike our lovely nieghbours to the south. Had to throw that in there Raoul. Nudge, nudge on your comments referring to our non-existence. I can take it though, I have my own special thoughts on Bushy Boy, and they aren't too pretty.
I'll also be sure to grab some coins, we have beautiful money here, do you? Teehee!!
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Post by burlives on Apr 18, 2005 12:33:56 GMT 7
My list is mostly based on being able to have trustworthy stuff to hand when needed, but in fact a lot of it is available in China. The good Doc Duke is right about that, but perhaps dazzled by the bright lights of Shanghai. Where I've been the spice selection has included: five spice, sichuan pepper, black pepper, and sometimes cumin. I do admit to being the proud owner of "Italian seasoning" bought in a Metro, but only because i thought it could approximate basil.
Were I thee, I'd economise on carrying stuff with a view to spending a week or two when you first get here trudging around checking out stores. That's when it's still fun.
But I still swear by sunscreen (never seen 30+ here) and broad use anti-biotics, like Augmentin (even though you can get lots of cheap stuff here over the counter), and prescription medicines (a lot of them are here, but aren't quite right, and are an ordeal to acquire). These days I also like the eucalyptus and a simple saline nasal spray going by the welcoming and felicitous name of Fes. I bring my own deodorant just because I can.
Razors you can get in department stores, but usually with that weird hangover from planned economy shopping -- you have to select the product, get a slip of paper, carry it to a special register, pay, take the receipt back, pick up the product, and then continue on with your normal shopping as if nothing ever happened. Same goes for moisturiser, but be careful not to buy skin bleach by accident.
You're on your own as far as bras go. All I know is every bra I've ever seen on display has been padded. (And by god, why are there that many underwear shops next door to any university? They outnumber books stores 2 to 1.)
Re Text Books -- a highly recommended slim volume is "Grammar Games" by Mario Rinvolucri. I am attempting to acquire it as I type. His "More Grammar games" is also supposed to be good.
Remember your hepatitis shots.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Apr 18, 2005 12:50:58 GMT 7
Unless there have been massive changes to immunology since i studied, only mammals can carry rabies. Bites or open wounds that have been licked by rabid beasts are the only souce of infection in my limited checking on this today. I haven't checked on the vaccine itself. I plan to, once i get a bit more paranoia about it. My budget for this month is shot though with the efl course, a dead motherboard and dr's bills. I come from a land down under where women glow and men chunder. Oz, the land of munchkins, along with Burl and George and Lotus and Dr Gonzo i think (or is he saamoan?) and others. Over the rainbow. prices were about 70 for the combined a and b hep, each injection, plus about 40 for each of the typhoid ones. Tetanus was free. Don't yet know about flu shots nor the JE but i will get that in HK i think. Don't like the side effects of the one here. I had all the others as a child. And really get your hep shots straight and the right timing apart. Start immediately, and don't go there until you have finished. As you said, China is a sucky place to get really sick in. HK was bad when i got Dysentery, and last time in china i had a major nasty bug. I had a cute nurse though, in the gf wanting to show off her talents in looking after me. "'Cough cough' i still feel a little weak, darling, . . . ." Do not use the drips they want you to take, they are not a good idea, plus a source of risk of hep. Only if you are dehydrating badly are they a good idea. And only if you want to be suffused with antibiotics. It would kill me dead. And antibiotics don't work on virii. Ever. I don't know why so many people don't know that. Try these: Immunization handbook by oz govt. www.nevdgp.org.au/immunisation/part1.pdfwww.nevdgp.org.au/immunisation/part2.pdfThey say get rabies shots if living for 12 months or over in a country where it is endemic. Also says the same for JE while the website my doc showed me says not to worry about it. Hmmm. Now i am worried about both. OK. Oh, and for hep, the booster works up to 12 months after the first shot.
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Post by burlives on Apr 18, 2005 13:19:03 GMT 7
Did I ever tell the story about the diabetic they wanted to give IV glucose? Well, he had the flu, dammit, and that's what you treat flu with, as if you westerners didn't know.
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Post by Jollyjunklass on Apr 18, 2005 13:41:23 GMT 7
Burl,
Is there salt?
And when you mention a braod use antibiotic, I am not quite sure what you mean. I have only ever received antibiotics for my teeth, like say tetracycline or erythromycin. In Canada, we need a prescription to get antibiotics and, as far as I know they are infection specific. Although, I could be quite ignorant about this. Can I just ask my doctor for a generic type antibiotic, and will he be willing to give me this? Prescription medication is not that easy to come by here, and even when you do have real issues, ie.sleeping/sleeping medication, they are very reluctant to give it out. I'm not sure how it is where your at, can you just go in and ask for certain things, like lets say valium or something, and they say sure, here you go?
At most, maybe I could go in, tell him about my situation and see if he has anything to offer me, lmao, but hey, I'll give it a shot.
Like what kind of prescriptions are we talking about, narcotic types? Do they allow all this medication through the border, aren't there any regulations.
Man, the sales at Shopper's Drug Mart are going to make a killing off of me. And what's the deal with the moisturizer, is it, like, a Michael Jackson phenomona or are you guys just pulling my leg. Do you go up stairs, discuss the script, come back down to the bar room and get a good chuckle? Or is this stuff for real?
And is the razor thing a joke or is it a true story, getting scarier by the minute.
The book is a definite possiblity, I will keep my eyes open. Is there such a book?
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Post by Jollyjunklass on Apr 18, 2005 14:12:26 GMT 7
Your right Mr. Nobody,
Didn't see the sentence seperation, sorry.
" rabies (This is a fatal viral infection found throughout South America and parts of Asia. Many animals can be infected (such as dogs, cats, bats and monkeys) and it's their saliva that is infectious. Any bite, scratch or even lick from a warm-blooded, furry animal should be cleaned immediately and thoroughly. Scrub with soap and running water, and then apply alcohol or iodine solution. Medical help should be sought promptly to receive a course of injections to prevent the onset of symptoms and death), schistosomiasis (bilharzia) (This disease is carried in fresh water by tiny worms that enter through the skin and attach themselves to the intestines or bladder...."
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Post by Dr. Gonzo on Apr 18, 2005 14:16:45 GMT 7
Do you have a travellers medical centre in town? That's where I got the rabies advice, and a little kit with all sorts of things, including a broad spectrum antibiotic; just a short course until you get the problem diagnosed. Antibiotics used to be over the counter in China and people started swallowing them if they so much as sneezed. The law was changed, but hell, this is China.
ps Mr Nobody, from my limited observations, Raoul is possibly a mammal.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Apr 18, 2005 14:19:33 GMT 7
Um, razor story true i suppose. Many things are done like that including most stuff you buy from chemists, and lots of department stores. I thought it was a kind of security, plus it employs people whose highest skill is using a red ink stamp and being able to count to four (the number of copies of the reciept), as long as they aren't colourblind (each copy is a different colour to make it easier and they don't have to actually be able to read). Actually, i just shrugged and said to myself, TIFC and didn't think any more on it. Broad spectrum antibiotics are able to combat a variety of infections. You named two already. a few others (there are lots) are keflex, bactrim, penicillin, etc. Pennicillin easily available over the counter here. however, bogus drugs and poor quality control (what burl is getting at about being trustworthy) is high, i have been quoted earlier today from a returning ozzie, at 80%. He had to return due to illness earlier in the year. And he is fluent mandarin speaker, teaches it at schools and uni here, teaches EFL there year about or so. If he had trouble getting what he wanted in Shenzhen, then there is problems. I will one day compile a list of equivalent drugs and their chinese names for myself so if i am sick i can jsut point. I will try to do that before i come, and maybe post it here if people are interested. remembering I am a bio sciences guy not a doc. And the upstairs doesn't talk about the downstairs in that way, but i am new. Maybe they deleted all the stuff about me when i wasn't looking, before i got invited. But seriously, I do not believe that anyone here would deliberately mislead anyone about anything to do with teaching or living in china. Anything else, though, i would assume all bets are off. And the biting wit . . . . (rabies shots anyone?) They ("WE" now ) do talk about things not wanted to be public, though, of course. That is why there are private areas in any website that has them. Not so much more secret as more personal. I think i got that about right? not that i have a right to speak for the members as a whole. Just my thoughts.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Apr 18, 2005 14:22:22 GMT 7
ps Mr Nobody, from my limited observations, Raoul is possibly a mammal. I am not touching this one. I never offend the person pouring the drinks.
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Post by burlives on Apr 18, 2005 14:31:05 GMT 7
I suppose there must be. There certainly is a huge and bewildering variety of MSG. When one gets salted nuts, it is usually salted with MSG. Rock salt or table salt I cannot reliably vouch for, but I assume it to exist. Well, when you meet a broad, y'know? Or like when I went to my doctor and asked him what I should take, and he said a "broad screen" or a "wide screen" and a "broad spectrum" antibiotic, something good for a range of antibiotic usages, like Augmentin Duo Forte, aka Amoxycillin plus Potassium Clavulanate, something you can apply to yourself when you know you're bacteria-ed to the eyeballs. It is certainly a prescription item, but my doc decided I could carry it around just in case. But you don't really need to. Amoxycilin is widely and dirt cheaply available over the counter in any Chinese town bigger than five houses. Oh yes, that drug's got years of effective use left in it. One just never really knows if it is trustworthy. It needs a doctor's authority at home and here 15 year-olds sell it. Now that i think of it, most places you can get ibuprofen too. It comes in a red box and it's called "Fenbid." You can buy those here too. You go shopping in corner stores. They call them "medicine supermarkets." For me it's Ventolin and Pulmicort. As it happens I recently found out you can get them here, at least in Zhejiang. I've always just walked through the Green channel. And never carried narcotics. White is beautiful. If you try buying sunscreen in China, it usually comes with a handy bleaching moisturiser. And the bulk of the moisturiser-y looking products in department stores and pharmacies are skin whiteners. What can I tell ya, Chinese women used to bind their daughter's feet. Nope, that's real. Irritating too. I used to get chased through stores because I'd just put shaving cream in my shopping basket and wander off. edit: damn, that was a long url -- for ease on the eyes, look up amazon.com and search for "grammar games" and "more grammar games".
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Post by Hamish on Apr 18, 2005 14:38:53 GMT 7
Maybe they deleted all the stuff about me when i wasn't looking, before i got invited. We do. And it took me, Raoul, and Gonzo an entire night and four cases of beer to pull all the crap people were saying about you! It was disgusting. I know. I wrote most all of it. Did we get it all?
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Post by Mr Nobody on Apr 18, 2005 14:43:25 GMT 7
We do. And it took me, Raoul, and Gonzo an entire night and four cases of beer to pull all the crap people were saying about you! It was disgusting. I know. I wrote most all of it. Did we get it all? Aw shucks guys, all dat trubble fo po liddle me? Ya shoodna!
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Post by burlives on Apr 18, 2005 14:56:55 GMT 7
And while we are on the topic of self-medication, a jim-dandy resource for second-guessing Chinese doctors and generally messing with your own head is: www.emedicine.comIt is searchable, but I find it to work best if you google what you've decided you have and include "emedicine" as a search term. Hours of fun. Months of side effects.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Apr 19, 2005 8:33:16 GMT 7
Further on the rabies shots.
Yes, get them. Locals get them every 3 years. But can get them there, 180 rmb for the whole course. Need them because the first thing they need to do after a bad bite is give you some immunoglobulin if you haven't had the shots and it is both expensive and difficult to get. Antibiotics don't work, it is a virus, and are placebo for iggerant savages. On the other hand, any animal bite needs antibiotics for other reasons. Like other germs. Animals don't brush their teeth. (well, they do, but that is another story)
And they do have outbreaks in the cities, eg Nanning a couple of years ago.
So have the shots. I have no info, couldn't find any, on relative efficacy of china re oz etc.
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Ruth
SuperDuperMegaBarfly
God's provisions are strategically placed along the path of your obedience.
Posts: 3,915
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Post by Ruth on May 7, 2005 19:01:31 GMT 7
Don't listen to the guys on the blonde hair dye. Bring a year's supply of your favorite color with you. Yes, lots of Chinese people here dye their hair blonde. I ran out last year and had my hair done at a salon. The price was great, but the color ended up reddish-blonde. Not the color I wanted at all. There was only one choice of blonde.
I've checked in major western-type stores (Walmart in Harbin and Dalian, Carrefour in Beijing, Avon in several places) and not found blonde hair dye. I brought a year's supply back with me when I went home last summer.
Bring Buckley's Mixture with you. Four bottles got my husband and me through our first winter. We still have two bottles left from this past winter, so we must have acclimatized. Nothing like a swig or two before bed for that raw throat you will surely have - either from foreign germs, coal dust air, or talking too much while teaching.
We can't get real (as opposed to Necafe instant) coffee where we live. It exists in the major cities, though. Bring powdered cinnamon, nutmeg, oregano, sage, savory if you like those spices. I like butterscotch pudding and haven't found it here. Comfort food for me, so I brought some back last summer.
You can get deodorant in the Avon stores, but not anti-perspirants. I ran out of Secret just as the warm weather hit last summer. The Avon stuff didn't do me any good. Four or five sticks from home should get you through the warm season. I'm still using razors from home, so can't speak to Chinese razors. My husband bought an electric one that's working well for him. I guess that's an option if you like electric.
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Post by Mr Nobody on May 8, 2005 0:00:01 GMT 7
I would personally like to know what buckleys is, since here it definately has different connotations. Buckleys means no chance.
I have throat problems teaching in Oz so i really need help in the middle muddle.
Butterscotch is a recipe, can make it.
Anti perspirant as opposed to deodorant?
don't block the pores.
oh yeah, dying hair. No idea. It took me all this time to get the grey right.
drunk now not making sense to me, so I will go and be fat elsewhere. byeeeee
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Post by Jollyjunklass on May 8, 2005 5:38:05 GMT 7
Bond,
Buckleys, my inebriated friend, is cough syrup.
Deodarant masks odors, anti-perspirant prevents perspiring.
Butterscotch is a flavouring, like in butterscotch candy, something like vanilla.
Now can someone, please go to the lessons section and try to give me some clues. Getting anxiety attacks.
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