Feed me, Seymour (Max time off; HK trips)

[Mr Nobody]

OK, and now for the real reason I wanted to be a member. No, not the real reason, the sort of accepted real reason.

I need to understand how English teaching jobs work.

Between me and you guys, I am coming over for other projects nothing to do with teaching, although I love teaching. I love teaching anything. (So far, but teaching English in China sounds like a trial, if only because they don't really care if they learn).

I want to teach in Shenzhen due to it's convenient geographical position to my "other" interests.


I don't really need money, I need time available.

OK, HELP!!!!

I have been to China many times, but never worked there.

I can eat the food, handle the spitting (nearly) and I eat the most disgusting things available

But I need to understand how to get a job that lets me go home so I can work on my other projects. I will have other money coming in I hope, so I don't need to worry to much about actual pay. Hopefully, at least, I just need accommodation and enought to survive.

But I do need free time.

So, advice??

Thanks. There will be generations of people who will be endebted to you but have no idea of your names. With an offer like that, how can you refuse?

One more thing: How hard it is to get to HK regularly? Do I need special passes, need to renew residency or whatever it is?

Thanks guys

[Raoul Duke]

If you can, try to get a job at a university. The pay sucks, usually around 4000 RMB a month, but many of them have very light base schedules- 12 to 16 hours a week. Sometimes the other schools will take you on a reduced-schedule basis; that's a matter for negotiation. Be sure not to take anything so part-time that you don't get a Z visa and a Residence Permit out of it. People will sometimes try to tell you you needn't worry about getting these things; they are full of .

To go to Hong Kong and re-enter the mainland, you need to get a re-entry visa from your local Entry/Exit Bureau of the PSB. These can be bought very easily. This keeps your documents from expiring the moment you step into Hong Kong. You can buy multiple-entry visas so that you don't have to repeat it every time you go. Sometimes there are open-ended re-entry visas, but they come and go. Depending on how the winds blow you could be limited to 4-6 trips a year without blowing your Residence Permit. If you can demonstrate a genuine need for more trips this will become more open to negotiation.

[George61]

The new Resident permit cum Visa should allow you multiple re-entries, at least until it expires. It got me back in after my trip to Aus. No questions asked. Of course, we were being hussled through by Airline officials, trying to help us catch our connecting flight. Do Airline officials rank higher than Immigration persons??

[Mr Nobody]

I am writing a biography (trying to) of a very famous kung fu dude you probably haven't heard of. Most of his students, friends, fellow masters etc live in HK although some live in Foshan. They are also dying of old age and I need to get the info before they all join in with Dr Thompson, Bruce Lee and Elvis singing with the aliens.

Is that a good enough reason for the authorities? Sounds dodgy at best to me.

Oh, his name is Wong Shun Leung. I teach his system, and I am one of the few westerners who most of the Chinese guys like sufficiently to tell me the nitty gritty. Politics.

Also, is it easy to convert a free apartment into a cash subsidy so i can live where i like?

[Raoul Duke]

You may have to get creative on a reason to go to HK more often. Whether your reason will work or not will depend an awful lot on the current regulatory climate and the individual you talk to. Keep in mind that Chinese officialdom tends to get a little itchy when we mention that we are writers or journalists. And no wonder.

For the apartment, it will again depend a lot on where you teach. If it's a private school, they may have to go out and find you an apartment anyway, and they will be happy to just give you some money and let you do it. Schools that already have a pool of paid apartments will probably be less amenable to a housing allowance. It's especially hard to do this with public schools and unis- they more often have on-campus housing they want you to use, for both financial and control purposes.

There is something to be said for school-provided housing sometimes...it gives them more control over you, but it also shifts the deposits, landlord hassles, and repair problems onto the school. That landlord who goes into fits of apoplexy when you're two hours late with the rent will become surprisingly relaxed when YOU need something. Often, the only way to get a deposit back out of a Chinese landlord is to beat it out of them.

[Mr Nobody]

The answers i have been given so far are very encouraging, and i thank you from the bottom of my glass. Thanks guys!

Now for some more:
On the accommodation question: How do they feel about a Chinese national moving in? Probably will be married at that point, but only engaged now. That was why I asked about finding our own accomodation. Also, we may simply buy a place if things look cool at that point. What are the rules on foreign/married ownership of property? Any idea of business ownership?
On a more personal note:
Is it illegal to distill your own vodka?
Where did Raoul buy those curtains?
And more importantly, are there any good dark beers in china? I have never seen any.

Anyone?

[George61]

And more importantly, are there any good dark beers in china?

Yes.
Sorry about the other stuff, I don't know.

[Raoul Duke]

Mr said:

On the accommodation question: How do they feel about a Chinese national moving in?

Pretty unhappy. Officially, cohabitation is very highly frowned upon- doubly so when a foreign pervert is involved. How big a risk you take will depend on where you live...in Shanghai or Shenzhen nobody will bat an eyelash, while in the sticks it will scandalize the town (about half of which is out every night cavorting with xiaojies, or IS a xiaojie...). There probably isn't much serious risk for you here unless you really get on someone's bad side, but there could be negative legal and social ramifications for your lady friend. Might consider offering to let her tell the naybs you're married.

What are the rules on foreign/married ownership of property? Any idea of business ownership?

Not as sure on these. I think you can own an apartment but having it jointly with the wife will be easier. One of China's 700 million frisky and eager apartment agents will doubtless be delighted to help you with local details on this one.

Businesses are similar- if I understand right, foreigners can wholly own businesses, but unless you're big enough to be a major economic force they will tax the living bejeezus out of you. The taxes go way down if a Chinese national owns around half of it...I think it's 51%. Again, you really need local info here, and it shouldn't be hard to find in Shenzhen.

You might get some use out of this site, which is destined for our Links page as well:
www.fdi.gov.cn/ltlawpackage/index.jsp?app=1&language=en

Is it illegal to distill your own vodka?

Yup. But hey, TIFC. ("This Is F*cking China") Considering that your adjacent neighbors are engaging in pirating phony car, bus, and train brakes, operating an explosives factory in the bathroom, and engaging in amateur virology research, they probably won't sweat the vodka too much as long as you act casual. Always remember the Golden Rule- Look both ways, make sure it's cool. Domestic liquor is so cheap in China that it probably doesn't occur to many to make their own.

Where did Raoul buy those curtains?

A flag shop. What's behind the curtains came from the bar next door to the flag shop.

And more importantly, are there any good dark beers in china?

They're here but usually relatively hard to find...not staggeringly popular in the manor, Squire. I had a "hei pi" in Beijing that could hold its own with a brown ale from Newcastle-on-Tyne, but I could only find it in one little neighborhood restaurant. Seek and ye shall find. I've also had some bad dark beers here, so buy one can before you go nuts.

Qingdao makes a dark beer...which the entirely export to Singapore.

[con's fly is open]

Mr. Nob, like you, I'm looking for a day job that will subsidize my writing. On my first tour, though, I shared a computer with 8 other people, so I couldn't put in the long, uninterrupted shifts at writing that it takes to write a book- my postings here at the Saloon, and letters home comprised 90%+ of my output. Internet cafes featured snail's-pace connections and inadequate word processing software.
This time around I'm taking along my own laptop so that I can write at home after work; I'm also going to live off-campus. Remember that you can make a white-collar salary for 15 to 18 hours a week in class, plus preparation time (this will be substantial at first, but will get easier and faster with practice). The important thing to remember is that most "full-time" teaching gigs are not, by the 40 hour-ish standard. What Raoul said about university gigs is true: those who do it often take on extra ESL work to pad their income; others, like you and me, have something else in mind.

How long has it been since you taught classroom? Brushing up by watching/assisting a class would be time VERY well spent.

[Mr Nobody]

Thanks Raoul, big help. My fiance will probably be my wife at that point if only for the reasons you spoke of. Maybe i will brew my own beer instead. I used to be good once. No, the vodka thing has to do with a business idea - i have developed a design for an instant "quickfit" still only in stainless steel, long story, but was thinking on manufacturing in china, sell to western countries, already have a small market here. No doubt cheaper to manufacture there. It could also be used to purify water in china, but would quickly be adapted to making vodka, i am sure. (almost entirely idiot proof, no nasties etc). Not an issue. I don't want to do it myself, not in a small flat, i don't drink THAT much, and my fiance would kill me i think. It smells. Come to think of it she probably wouldn't like the smell of brewing beer either. Sigh. Oh well, it was too fiddly and decent beer is cheap enough there. I will just have to get used to the pale ones. Pity about the qingtao, that would probably have been perfect. San Miguel does a nice dark too, but I have never seen it on the mainland.
I also don't know what a xiaojie is, but i can guess, I think. I am familiar with double standards, i have some myself.

Thanks, too, con. Real good answers, real good question. I was going to start asking along those lines later. May as well get it over with now.

Um, i have never taught classes of english at all, never taught EFL except online, or to some friends, pure amateur all the way. I am not strictly speaking a teacher at all in the academic sense. I am a fake.

However:I have lectured as a guest at uni, and i ran a couple of my fiance's classes last time in china to get a feel for it. It was pretty easy.

I have given seminars, tutorials, and tutored people, all in small groups, all to adults, in a variety of subjects and topics.

I also have taught for many years a martial art where it is important that people know what they are doing (I know this sounds irrelevant, but it wasn't, not when each of the other things i have run seem easier because of it)

My real and direct experience is extremely limited. I have some skills that should help, i feel. I have also run businesses for many years.

My fiance (probably wife about then) is however a professional teacher with lots of experience and i think she will help me. She is a chinese national who teaches english at colleges etc.

Also, along the same lines, although i have a good understanding of english and english literature etc, i don't have an EFL certificate. The only one here in my city is a masters degree, which i plan on doing if i like teaching EFL the first time, after i return back to the land of Oz. So how important is a cert? And are any of these seemingly bogus ones online of any earthly use? I could do with a lot of brushing up on the cambridge phonetics. I can read them but I think I would have great difficulty using them off the top of my head, for example. And how important is it to have a cert at all? I have seen different opinions on the subject.

What resources are good for a bumbling incompetent such as myself? (I don't really need any of this for some time, i am not arriving until august, planning to start with the academic year in sept.)

Your warning about 90% output used elsewhere is well taken, i have had that problem before. too often, sigh. Most of my work will be interviews for a while. It should be easy work, then just type it up. (Piles of interviews sitting in the corner, waiting to be typed?)

I also know that teaching drains creative output, i have experienced that many times myself. But what the hey? At base, i am looking for a change in lifestyle, more time with my girly (I am wary of holiday relationships and internet ones, and ours feels suspiciously like that - I want a normal one), and having fun with my many chinese friends. Anything else is a bonus.

Ok, more help please! Thanks this is all great. ;D ;D

[con's fly is open]

Some thoughts:
- I taught in China for a year. In that time they changed the law so that a foreign teacher MUST have a TESOL certificate. Perhaps there is a way to wriggle around that obstacle, but I couldn't find one. In fact, my departure has been delayed for a month and counting while I get the pooty little piece of paper, despite the fact that it's teaching what I was doing all of 2004.
- Nothing prepares you for standing in front of a bunch of drooling little bastards quite like standing in front of a bunch of drooling bastards. Do yourself a favour and watch/assist an ESL class for whatever age group you intend to teach (or better yet all three age groups: kids, teens and adults).
- I went to China with less background than you have: I'm a writer by trade, have a decent amount of tutoring experience, and am a pretty good public speaker. The first 2 months were Hell, pure HELL: I couldn't make a proper lesson plan, and didn't have the teaching steps down. By contrast, the next 2 guys that showed up were young, had NO post-secondary English whatsoever... and stepped into class, getting up to quality teaching within 2 weeks. I looked at their TESOL texts, heard about their lessons and practicums, and knew why they learned the ropes so much faster than I did: the course taught them EXACTLY what they needed to know.
Dude, take a course. Yes, you'll likely catch on faster than I did, but there's no worse feeling than sucking in class, fearing for your job, and letting your kids down.
- I'm early in my online TESOL course, and don't know whether I should recommend it. I'll let you know; heck, you've got almost half a year to get the piece of paper.

Again, dude, get a course before you come. Legally, and practically, you'll regret it if you don't.

[Mr Nobody]

Con, the advice is a big help. I have contacted a couple of teacher friends of mine and they are forwarding some software/texts etc for lesson planning/course planing and such. (I never heard of lesson planning software before. Hmm. But this guy did do the textbook of our kids training and personal development program for the instructors.) He tells me he will walk me through it and so on until i understand. OK, so far so good.

I did help put together the exam for my fiances course and taught 3 hours of a two or three day course at one of the colleges in Nanning over the winter break, and i enjoyed it. I also had to run through the exam with the students so they could get the answers, Sheesh. And write the answers out. And tell them the answers again. And explain the answers. And tell one to stop talking on the phone. And explain why it was rude. Most was ok though and i think they had fun too for most of it. I did this while i had a sore throat and a nasty flu, but it was still fun. I was so sick i had to lie down for the rest of the day, though, very draining.

But that was adults. I am a little scared of kids, and teenagers. They seem so fragile. I seem to scare the crap out of them for some reason. Any thoughts anyone? Is there a place where i can see vids of this kind of thing? I am positive that i cannot sit in a class here. It is against some of our regs.

About the TEFL/TESOL etc certificate - I really don't want to get around the need for something that will also make life easier for me. Crazy yes, stupid, no, not often. However i didn't know it was compulsory, nowhere i have seen seems to specifically say that.
OK, then, anyone know if there is such a thing as a decent online course? Preferably one that helps somewhat in preparation (obviously it cannot help with the actual class bit) as well as being recognized by the officialdom. I would do the Cambridge thingy if a) it was cheaper and b) they had one in my city and c) if i had four weeks i was doing nothing else. But it aint gunna happen. No courses in my city. Online it must be.

So online course, lesson plan, anything else that is obvious but in my total and utter ignorance i am missing out? Just hit me with the more important ones while i get my act together. Maybe this could all go together into some kind of an FAQ or advice thingy. Is there already something along those lines i haven't found? Most stuff that i have found seems mostly crappy negatives or mindless positives. Not your actual advice on how to get through it all in a relatively sane manner. sane-ish. as sane approximately at the end of the year as at the beginning. Sort of thing. With similar levels of substance abuse. I only have one liver.

And, Con, do i understand you to say that most schools let you go home after you finish, so you can do your own thing? I have been told that only Unis and colleges do, that schools you have to hang around and be white?

Computer advice was also good, will follow that definitely. Cannot exist without computer. Rather do without TV and radio and papers and anything except books.
I wonder if amazon delivers to china? I need books. lots of books. Books are my friends.

[Raoul Duke]

Hey guys, I wanna move this out of the library. The library is really for "generally useful to many" reference information and this thread, while great, has become pretty specific to one person.

Let me add that I too was an avid homebrewer back home. I've felt the stirrings here, too, but have never seen real homebrewing supplies sold or advertised. I shudder to think what it would cost to ship in individual orders of malt extracts.

I also have concerns about dodgy water. There would be sanitation headaches here far beyond what one sees in the West. Also hard to find water of good taste and quality here.

Even extract brewing is hard work. Hard to compete with good local beers at under 2 yuan per big bottle...

"Xiaojie" is the Chinese word for "Miss". It's often applied to prostitutes. It's also often used for waitresses, but you gotta be careful. In Changchun, for example, the waitress might smack you up if you call her "xiaojie"! Listen to the locals to see what the homeys are saying..."xiaojie" ("Miss"), "xiaomei" ("Little Sister"), or "fuyuan" ("Server"). If you want to get strange looks and maybe some laughs, and who doesn't, address your waitress as "tongzhi" ("Comrade")!

[Raoul Duke]

Back to cohabitation for a sec...are you aware that if the two of you check into a single hotel room, you may be required to show a marriage certificate? Not all hotels do it, but it is possible...

[Mr Nobody]

So far, so lucky. Haven't had a problem yet. And i usually stay at her place anyway, except when we travel. She is worried about cohabitation, willing to take the chance in Shenzhen, but i think i will marry her anyway. I would rather keep things on a moral standard if only because of her elder sister. She scares the bejesus out of me.

[Raoul Duke]

Mr said:

She scares the bejesus out of me.

Yeah? wait 'til you're actually married.

[con's fly is open]

Schools generally have office hours where, yes, you sit around being white and giving them some kind of cachet; this is a good time to also prepare courses. My school forbid working for anyone else, but it was a small town (half a million) and they had a reasonable expectation of monopoly. In a larger centre that's not an issue.
If you want to teach adults, I've heard the happiest stories from university gigs, with the except of the two Saloonies who teach flight attendants...

[Mr Nobody]

Raoul said:

Yeah? wait 'til you're actually married.

Oh, crap. I never thought of that. Now what do I do? (panicky running around in circles waving hands in the air while screaming incoherently)

[Raoul Duke]

Mr said:

(panicky running around in circles waving hands in the air while screaming incoherently)

Sounds like you're already doing everything that can be done, man.

Back when I was younger the men of my clan had a custom. When one of us was getting married, a bachelor party would be held the night before the wedding. At this party, the groom-to-be would be ceremonially offered $50 and a bus ticket out of town. Perhaps we should have this at the Saloon?

[Mr Nobody]

Can we give it to the sister ? The bus ticket i mean . . .
I'd keep the $50.

[Mr Nobody]

The story so far:

Half way through the TEFL cert, half way through
the immunization program, 80% through getting the my business ready for my prolonged absence, 100% through organizing re cars, pets, etc.

0% sorted out the house, and 90% through my patience with being here and not there.



Oh, yeah, the sister now likes me since I bought an appartment there. At least, I am getting the benefit of the doubt.

[Mr Nobody]

Next installment of the saga. 100% fed up coming regardless.

100% fixed up school as far as it can go

Cats, car, life sorted out.

Flats etc sorted out, except for actually packing up and moving ot china.

OK, here is the question:

The gf says that her PSB friend has told her that if we marry, i can get residency and work permit without a contract. I haven't ever heard of this.

I may have misunderstood, the gf may have misunderstood, but if it is right, it is a beauty. Anyone know of such things?

[Raoul Duke]

By the way, Mr. N, to get the money and the bus ticket you actually have to skip out on the wedding and leave town.

This is our sacred ritual, man. Don't m'kay around.

[George61]

Latest Headline..." Nobody will come to China"

[Mr Nobody]

I think that should be "Nobody wants to come to China."

Yeah, but once I am in China, I am assured that I will then be a Somebody. People on this very forum assured me of that right back in my beginning here.

Mr Somebody. Or maybe Mr Bond. Still thinking.

Oh, it looks like the marriage/work permit thing was a bit of a furphy, but still don't know for sure.

"Somebody arrives in China". Nice ring to that.