now I've done it

[Ruth]

But 'it' is a good thing. I must keep telling myself this.

I came home from bootcamp fired up and keen to continue my Chinese education. I did well for a couple of weeks, but (add whining voice here) "It's really, really difficult." I expected help from my coworkers and they are helpful, but it's not exactly what I need. Besides, our entire school is in a frenzy getting ready for important inspectors who are coming in a couple of weeks. Our school is trying to become a model school and this involves a lot of preparation. They literally don't have time right now.

What to do? A coworker lives downstairs from us. Last year his wife was a primary math teacher. This year she is at home. She doesn't speak English - at all. I figured she was just what I needed and she has agreed to help me. We just finished my first lesson. I think this just might work.

Procrastination is my middle name. But now Mrs Liu will be back tomorrow morning at 8:00 and I feel committed to have done SOMETHING between now and then. Self-imposed homework. Just what I need. A gentle task master to make me be accountable.

[Non-Dave]

Good on ya Ruth! I've been getting lessons from my assistant - proper sit down lessons, no chit chat, no English for her, just Chinese for me - and it is really helping, plus continuing with both the books from Bootcamp, doing Pimsleurs and going to pool halls and net bars to learn how to swear. Somehow it is all coming together.

I've got an American mate in Harbin who is studying Chinese at university. He said the classes suck, so he got himself a private tutor instead. She doesn't speak ANY English and he reckons his Chinese is improving much more than before.

Let us know how it goes - a little more gentle accountability to keep you going forward...

[Lotus Eater]

Go for it Ruth. It's the only way. However, I am a slack student and other things happen so I don't always get my homework done. I am almost tempted to ask friends to do it for me - but keep reminding myself that the reason I am supposed to do the homweork is to help ME - not to look good to my teacher (who is a friend anyway!).

Some days I figure I am exactly like some of my students.

[woza17]

Over 2 years my son have 2 private teachers 6 hours a week none of them could speak English and they both
were qualified Chinese teachers.

[acjade]

You're going great Ruth.

We have Chinese lessons here every Thursday. I try to practise every day in real life situations but my Tones suck. That is I know the tones but forget which tones go with which words. I guess that's have the discipline to sit down and drill.

[Norbert Radd]

even though you say your tones are bad, do people understand you?

[Ruth]

Yeah, the tones. She made me do tones today, even though I didn't want to. I find I just can't remember stuff. And then there is real life. Twice today people said something to me, I knew the words, but I didn't get it.

Workmen were here fixing stuff this morning. A little after 11 they motioned that they were going to eat. Fine with me. They were saying xia wu. I was thinking 'little 5'. Stupid. Finally Roger M. said 'this afternoon. They'll be back this afternoon.' I get xia and xiao mixed up, but the context was perfect. I should have caught on. Makes me mad at myself.

Buying lunch. I managed to ask for cold noodles and the lady understood me. Then she said something to me and pointed at the bowl. I was thinking eat-in or take-away, so pointed to the styro container. She repeated herself. Ahhh! Yi wan. One bowl. She was asking me how many bowls I wanted ('cause I've bought two at a time there before, they know there are two of us.) I KNOW this stuff. What's wrong with me? Gotta get out there and use it is all.

[acjade]

Yes. Oddly enough they do but Chinese people have to figure out so many other dialectal accents that I think, as Ruth mentioned, context is greatly underestimated. If it's any help, even though I forget the tones I'm told I have excellent initials and finals. To me I sound like a saw in the forest.

One test or trial by fire I set myself everyday is as an example to my students. I say in Chinese what we're going to do in the lesson. I'm brave enough to announce it so they usually relax and 'know 'ave a go mate' is the order of the day.

[woza17]

Ruth everyone knows ir someone doesn't understand you, just scream it out at them. The students are always correcting my pronunciation. These are Cantonese speakers what would they know. They admire my arrogance.

[Lotus Eater]

I like listening to conversations that I am not part of - I find I can understand more than I used to, so that is encouraging. Radio is better to listen to than TV as well, although I find TV better for learning to read characters.

Apart from class time, where I try to use as little Chinese as possible, I find it difficult to speak in English to Chinese people now. I always go for the Chinese first and then when I get stuck try the English. And there are 'automatic' words that I tend to always use no matter what nationality the person is that I am speaking to - xie xie, bu yong, haode, bu shi, mei shi mei shi, wei ni hao on the phone etc. This gets a bit irritating for the native English speakers I am talking to, but is sheer habit and I don't even hear myself saying them now.

[acjade]

It can seem a bit like an affectation I suppose but we used to do that when we were at school and learning French.

I don't use Chinese to teach only to model effort and willingness to have a go. The students appreciate it.

[Ruth]

Lotus, it's great that you have so many phrases that come automatically to you now. I have a few. I'm working on increasing them because I believe that's the way to get really comfortable using the language.

Yesterday I found myself muttering in Chinese as I walked to school. Actually I was repeating a couple of sentences over and over to get them into my brain. Must have looked like a lunatic, 'cause I caught a few people looking at me. Have to keep the talking to myself to a minimum or I'll get a reputation.

[woza17]

Ruth just hold your mobile to your ear and mumble away and people won't think you are a nutter

[Lotus Eater]

It probably does come across as an affectation, but that will have to be in the eye of the beholder! Usually someone with less Chinese. Other foreign friends who speak Chinese will answer me in Chinese.

Outside class I spend more and more time now with Chinese people who have little or no English, the ones I spend time with and do speak English will still tend to talk to me in Chinese until I lose the conversation, and my previous FT mate and I worked hard at talking to each other in Chinese as a learning method - practising what we preach to our students. So it has become habit.

[acjade]

Yeah. I must admit I did think you were showing off especially when you knew my Chinese was at that stage limited to xie xie etc. I didn't think you were deliberately being rude.

[Lotus Eater]

Sorry! There is a Linguistics (or Pragmatics term for it, which if I had more time I would look up) - and it's actually one of the stages that we want our students to reach. And I find now that in both Chinese and English I end up speaking neither langauge effectively - I susbstitute whichever word comes into my head first - again another step apparently in 2nd language acquisition. So I have my Chinese friends laughing at me for saying "jian mian 8 dian". or "Bu tai louder". "Too much mafan".

Without the techie stuff, I figure that given the numbers of Chinese versus the numbers of foreigners, if I bump into someone I am logically going to need dui bu qi more often than sorry, if I accept something I am going to need xie xie more often than thank you.

The automatic stuff has made it easier for me to be accepted by Chinese people when I first meet them as well. I was at dinner the other day with a bunch of heavy duty people I hadn't met before and seated next to one guy who asked me if I minded if he smoked. I answered automatically, mei shi mei shi. He stopped, looked at me and said "Most foreigners would have said Bu yao jin, or Bu shi - you sounded naturally Chinese" Talked to me for the rest of the night then, giving me a great chance to practice my Chinese.

It's worth learning those phrases Ruth.

[Norbert Radd]

I think it's easy to express myself but I can't listen and comprehend. I just did my first textbook for the 4th or 5th time.
I do find myself writing pinyin sometimes, e.g., shudian for bookstore but I haven't said things wrong though I did speak to a white guy once in Chinese after I'd been talking to a Chinese person. I will confuse Chinese and Korean but that's something I haven't done for a long time. All the automatic responses come easy but yesterday I watched an hour of Mandarin dubbed soap operas and didn't get a thing. Sometimes I can understand Spongebob in Mandarin.
i'm going to try using this dialog book from Beijing U.
I'm doing 40 Basic Chinese Lessons and do OK up to Lesson 19. Lesson 20 is all holidays but Lessons 21 and 22, I really hit a wall.

[Norbert Radd]

When I answer the phone, I say na wei because that's what I here Shenzhen denizens say on the subway and buses.

[woza17]

My Chinese is absymal, George .but I say my son can read, write and speak Chinese so that lets me off the hook I mean I bred a child that can do that, so in a way I have made a great effort to learn Chinese, by having a son and so on. Bred with a Chinese
Lotus Monday morning I will start my Chinese lessons.

[Ruth]

Woza, the cell phone to the ear is a great idea. I'll fit right in with the natives.

Lotus, thanks for the encouragement. It's been a great week. I've spent less time here at the saloon but I've spent more time on my studies. My gentle laoshi covers the pinyin in my text book and makes me read the Chinese characters. That's a little more than I had bargained for, but it's all good. Some of the characters are W-A-Y more complicated than I know yet. I'm really fudging because I memorize the passages so I can 'read' them back to her, but that's good too because at least the phrases are getting into my brain. I work best under pressure and this is giving me enough to get the job done.

A coworker brought her daughter's grade one (primary) reader for me. Short stories in pinyin and characters. I'll plod my way through one during downtime at work.

[Ruth]

Nuts. Friday morning after wo de laoshi left I thought Monday morning at 8:00 a.m. was really far away. It was, too. But now - yikes she'll be here in just a few hours and I didn't do any homework all weekend. To be fair to myself, the weekend is really busy for me with teaching private kids. But, to be honest also, I spent a fair amount of time here at the Saloon too.

So, I'll be getting up early tomorrow morning and putting in some intensive cramming time before she arrives. See. That's why I need someone like her. Not cause she's mean or demanding because she isn't. Just someone to make me be accountable to me. Cause I'm not otherwise.

Okay, going to bed now. Footie warmer is warm.

[nolefan]

don't forget your bootcamps homework...

[Ruth]

Next week for bootcamp homework. (unless I can come up with another excuse

I'm maxed out this week getting stuff ready to turn in to impress the inspectors who are coming to decide if our school should be a model school. This is consuming my life right now. I'm not used to working so hard. Almost finished, though. Deadline is Friday.