Teaching the Pig to Sing

[Hamish]

Sallie and I call 'em on it, students, teachers and deans alike.

The department has me lecture the first year students each year and I ramble on and on about no spitting inside the building, the use of the flush handle, not picking the nose and eating the work product and other subjects that have them twisting in their seats before I am done.

I tell them they are in a city now. Pigs don't eat their poo as often here.

IMHO they NEED to understand that such is NOT acceptable anywhere in the western world and some may even visit there someday.

[Lotus Eater]

Agreed it is not acceptable in the western world - and here because of OUR acculturation, WE don't find it acceptable - but we are trying to change behaviour HERE and not just for the very few who head overseas need it.


Are we being cultural imperialists?

[Norbert Radd]

Chinese have told me that they don't like haking and spitting and it seems I've seen signs against it before somewhere.
Singapore's been super-clean for 25+ years. Most of those Chinese were originally from Fujian province but the spitting was one of the first things they tackled, it seems I heard.
Even here in the office, I can hear that loud hawking. I see spit in all the stairwells.
Another thing I don't understand is the footprints on the walls. I know this is from kids but is this the Chinese version of tagging, i.e., graffiti?

[Lotus Eater]

They may tell us that - but how real is it? And do they only say that because they KNOW we think it is disgusting??? I'd still argue that it is in the main acceptable here - evidence is all around you - in streets, restaurants, universities, wherever. Doesn't seem to be limited to the uneducated or rural areas.

So if it acceptable to the majority, my question still stands - are we being culturally imperialistic?

[Ruth]

I don't know if I would use the term culturally imperialistic, but yeah. We are. Expecting them to change to suit us, that is. I've come to accept it as something I can't change. My otherwise lovely coworkers and friends can hawk with the best of them. In the office they use paper (scrap paper, not tissue) to spit into and then deposit it in the dustpan that serves as our trash can. Some will go out into the hall and use the floor. I was at a spa this morning with a coworker. She landed her spit in the shower drain. I wouldn't do this, but I think it's appropriate and acceptable for where we were.

[woza17]

The base line is it's unhygenic. If you spit into a tissue and put it in the bin more power to you. I don't like the sound but I can put up with it. I just hate looking and stepping in it

[Ruth]

Yupp. Good baseline. Seems like some clued in during the SARS scare three years ago, but the lessons didn't stick.

[con's fly is open]

Hygiene transcends cultural sovereignty- it's a health issue. Good on ya, Hamish. The faster the world gets out, the few morons out there spreading the viruses around to the rest of us.

[Lotus Eater]

Absolutely and totally agree that it is unhygienic, absolutely and totally agree that it is unsightly, absolutely and totally agree that it is not something I would ever do myself.

I am inured to it now - unless it is the same person persistently doing it near me in a restaurant - have got up and walked out on that one.

But there are also hundreds of other things that happen that are unhygienic that we either do ourselves or tolerate or take no notice of - both here and back at home.

Remember the stats that showed that 70+% of American guys - who ALL said yes, that every time they went to the toilet they washed their hands - actually DIDN'T wash hands?

How many times have you seen fellas both here and at home relieve themselves against a wall - especially at night after a couple of drinks too many? We get to walk past that wall too.

I am now totally used to people using their chopsticks to put food on my plate - I do it myself. (Some of my western friends are now so comfortable with it that even in western style restaurants they will now expect to share food with me!) I am used to people dipping their chopsticks into the bowl of food I am taking my food from, after they have had these same chopsticks in their mouths. I am now used to passing around - i.e. sharing - the same shot glass for toasts.

We blow our nose, put the hanky or tissue in our pockets, use it again, put it back etc - then shake people's hands or eat. We are frequently unconsciously rubbing our noses and mouths - without immediately washing hands, then touching other people. Guys scratch and rearrange themselves frequently.

So why are we so 'superior' about this one?

[George61]

It's probably not the actual spitting, in itself, that is anoying. It's where the spitting occurs. They never spit on the side of the road, but at their feet. Spitting in restaurants, supermarkets and classrooms is the worst bit. They are too bloody lazy to get up and go spit in the toilet.

[Lotus Eater]

I would rather they spent their money, energy, advertising, training etc on this instead of spitting:

Workplace death toll set to soar in China
By Fu Jing (China Daily)
Updated: 2005-07-14 05:47
Workplace deaths and injuries are expected to continue rising in China for years to come amidst an already-grave work safety record.

A team with the State Administration of Work Safety based the warning on the fact that China will accelerate industrialization in the years leading to 2020.

"International experience and lessons from developed countries have already proved that in this phase of industrialization, it is easy to see occurrences of death and injury in the workplace," said Administration Vice-Minister Wang Xianzheng, who headed the research team.

The latest disaster happened at the Shenlong Coal Mine in the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, where 83 miners perished, said Wang Dexue, another Administration vice-minister. The agency attributed that disaster to over-mining and unauthorized production.

The research also found that when a country's per-capita gross domestic product is between US$1,000 and US$3,000, the rise in workplace deaths and injuries is difficult to curb.

A group of 14 researchers made that finding after three years of research into the work safety records of industrialized countries such as the United States and Japan, said Huang Shengchu, president of the China Coal Information Institute, who headed the group.
"We are in such a phase of industrialization and should be highly cautious," said Huang, who added that the per-capita GDP in China reached US$1,000 in 2003 and is expected to rise to US$3,000 in 2020.

Huang's team predicted there is slim chance for China to curb its work safety situation by 2020, but added that workplace deaths and injuries will greatly decrease after China finishes its process of industrialization.

The team also regards the years around 2010 as a "sensitive time," and likely to see the sharpest rise in workplace accidents."It doesn't mean that we have no ways to curb such a horrible trend in China," said Huang.

A stronger commitment by China's highest leadership has laid a solid foundation to keep the work safety record from worsening, he continued.

Earlier this year, the State Council promoted the State Administration of Work Safety to a ministry-level department. And the government channelled a total of 3 billion yuan (US$361 million) in 2005 to improve safety equipment in coal mines.

"Restructuring China's economy would decrease the number of deaths and injuries," said Huang.

Currently, sectors such as mineral mining, manufacturing and construction have contributed the lion's share to China's economy, and deaths and injuries are prone to occur if no labour protection measures are taken.

[woza17]

Where did I see this brilliant idea on how to teach the workers their rights and safety. It may have been on this forum, so if I repeat myself or someone else get used to it I do it all the time.
Anyway this organisation printed workers right and safelty informatin on the back of playing cards and distributed them to the workers for free.
I thought it a brilliant idea. How often do you see people playing cards while waiting to be hired.

Does urine have germs?

[woza17]

I have just been thinking about spit and germs and it ocurred to me that I should buy some shoes for my dog. I mean we take off our shoes off when we enter the house but the dog walks unshod through the streets and then into our home and then my bed.

I hate thinking about hygeine at a Howard Hughes level.

I am more concerned for the floors, the ayi has just cleaned them and the pooch leaves his little paw prints over them.

She is so sweet she likes to bet on the GGs and wants me to get the Hong Kong Races up on the internet. I don't want to encourage her and I don't think I can unless I have cable and this could be a disaster.

Maybe I will teach her to play blackjack and let her win a few hands.

[Dragonsaver]

woza17 said:

I have just been thinking about spit and germs and it ocurred to me that I should buy some shoes for my dog. I mean we take off our shoes off when we enter the house but the dog walks unshod through the streets and then into our home and then my bed.

Get someone to send you a set from Canada, then have the local folk make you some for the dog, they could even be made disposable here because they could make them for so little money. That way when the dog comes in, the footware could go in the trash.

[woza17]

DS I don't know anyone in Canada, also I want environmenataly friendly dog shoes. Is that a big ask. We are all trying to save the planet in our own way. No I will go to Hong Kong they are dog mad over there, a hangover from the British.

God when I think of it, I have had many hangovers from the British.

[Dragonsaver]

My son has shoes for his dog but only when they are walking her in the snow. Snow balls up between the toes and can actually cut their feet. Anyhow, to watch a dog wearing shoes is absolutely hilarious . They do the 'hokey-pokey'. They shake the left foot, then the right foot and then they turn all around.

You have to make sure the shoe fits properly and can be tied on so they can't shake them off. He paid over $60.00Cnd for the shoes. At that price, you don't want to lose them!!!

[OZgronk]

Last week I saw what I thought was a set of dog booties hanging up on a wire along with other washing outside one of the teachers blocks, so I asked who owned a dog (owned...not eats), pointing to the things.

Dog? no, no they're for the kitchen table legs.

[OZgronk]

I totally lost it today, twice.

I was just getting warmed up, 10 minutes into the lesson, where I was getting my students to give or show me examples of various basic shapes. (I just cannot believe that Senior Gr2 students have never been told the English names for square, circle, triangle etc). This incidentally, has been one of my better lesson plans of late.

Anyway, a boy turned toward the two girls sitting next to him and let fly with an extremely violent sneeze, spraying the unfortunates next to him, and then laughed as they tried to wipe their faces.

Well I let him have it. At full voice I pointed out in no uncertain terms how his filthy habits and those of the rest of China, are the root cause of diseases spreading in China, that spitting, sneezing, coughing etc with no regard to people around him is the single most disliked thing that western people find in China.

I went on about how the West see Chinese people as being so ignorant of basic hygiene matters that it is no wonder that diseases such as SARS begin here.

I continued on about how I felt having to sit on a bus or in a restaurant whilst people around me spit and blow their noses right next to me, and how ill it all makes me feel etc etc.

When I came up for breath after a solid 10 minutes of this I looked around at 80 stunned faces staring at me in disbelief. Even the kids up the back whose only input into my class each week is to say "Class is over" as soon as the bell rings, had woken from their slumber and were looking at me with wide eyes.

What have I done, I thought to myself, I better stop now before I dig myself right into it, and I calmly went back to the girl who had been in the middle of showing me a shuttle-cock as an example of a cone, before my explosion.

At the end of the lesson, I was packing up thinking if that little outburst gets back to the leaders things will be interesting, when a girl came out to me and said, "Teacher, that was a very good lesson.......I always wanted to know what the English names of those shapes were...."

.....grrrrrr.....

Then this afternoon, we went shopping, and were having a great time, managing to get about 50 people around us as we bargained for some necklaces, and getting our shoes repaired for just 4Yuan each, when, in the supermarket I lost it again.

This time I was waiting with a bunch of bananas for the girl at the weighing station to finish the people in front of me and as I reached the scale and was just putting my bananas onto the scale a women behind me, reached past and put hers onto the scale.

I just reacted without thinking and flicked her bag of whatevers onto the floor and continued what I was doing but the look of horror from the woman was " what was that for?".

I then took my stuff to the checkout and twice had someone push in as I was actually being served, but thank god I didn't have to do anything, on both occasions the checkout girl told the interlopers to get back.

Those episodes today really have spoiled my usually happy demeanor, but hell, there is only so much one can take...but it really makes me feel cranky...has anyone else been in these situations?

[George61]

We all have our bad days.
I kicked one kid out yesterday. He was drawing Pikachu and listening to his walkman. When I called him on it he answered back, so I showed him the door. "You can't do that. This is my classroom!" "Ha! When I am teaching here it's MY classroom. You leave or I do"
He got up and walked out.."You are a very bad teacher."
Yeah right, sport.

[Dragonsaver]

george61 said:

We all have our bad days.
I kicked one kid out yesterday. He was drawing Pikachu and listening to his walkman. When I called him on it he answered back, so I showed him the door. "You can't do that. This is my classroom!" "Ha! When I am teaching here it's MY classroom. You leave or I do"
He got up and walked out.."You are a very bad teacher."
Yeah right, sport.

I marched a student out of class yesterday. I asked him at least 5 times not to talk to the students in front and behind him, just to his partner. Then I asked him and his partner to move to another seat across the room. As he got close his pen hit the wall. I marched him out of the class and had a long discussion with him on behavior. He was supposed to be writing a 'paragraph' on decisions. He said he had never made any decisions in his life - I said you just made one when your pen hit the wall. After the dressing-down explaining the facts of life, we shook hands and I allowed him back in class.

[woza17]

Interesting, I can't be assed disciplining the kids. If they get to loud I turn my volume down and just mouth the words, they turn around to tell the other students to be quiet because they can't hear the teacher.
I don't have to put up with bullpoo in the class if it gets to much I tell the leader
Every teacher's experience is different. I never get angry because I never feel angry with the kids, if some kid is pissing me off I will embarass him.
I try to teach them just one word or expression in each class to back up what they have been learning.
I am user friendly teacher.

I have taught classes where the kids were totally out of control and I came down like a ton of bricks.. Threw the troublemakers out of the class, they called me names and I told them get a job pulling a rickshaw.

I would love to say I said that in Chinese

[Dragonsaver]

My students are 2nd year University. Rich kids that didn't make it into a 'real' University.

I didn't show anger I just showed I wasn't putting up with the joking around and BS. We had a long quiet discussion. He came back into class and wrote the assignment.

[woza17]

DS we have the advantage of out age and the quiet dignity that we bring to the classroom. The immediate respect from the students. poo I was dreaming.
Today I was watching one of the Chinese English teachers, a petite woman that you could crush in one hand berating this local big bastard, the kid left in tears.
This teachers works bloody hard and does not put up with BS she is respected by the students that why the kid was upset .

[Lotus Eater]

I am so lucky - my students are great. They are friendly and try hard. The only thing I need to do is when they are working in groups and then presenting their conclusions to the whole class each group tends to want to chat a little more about what they want to say - so I have to tell them to listen to others.

[OZgronk]

Three weeks ago at start of term I was given all my wifes classes from first term in exchange for mine.

Mrs O warned me that there were two particularly noisy classes and wished me luck as she was glad to be rid of them.

Without her telling me which classes they were, I worked the first one out within 2 minutes of starting, even as I was introducing myself and writing up my three class rules.

So I added one more rule that said if any one was noisy, I would dump their books over the balcony, which received howls of laughter.

The noise went on and I again reiterated what would happen, then marched up the back grabbed the two piles of books on the perpetrators desk and went out and dropped them the 4 stories onto the path below, then told him to go and pick them up.

Five minutes later a very red faced boy was back at his desk trying to wipe the mud off his books, and the rest of the class went off without a hitch.

But the fabulous thing is that that class is now my best behaved and are really trying hard....Mrs O cannot believe it.

I think that they saw from the very first that I meant business and now they are enjoying their Oral English as these kids are actually very outgoing and enjoy my relaxed and entertaining style, they just needed to give me a chance to get into my stride.

I did nothing with the second noisy class which I have kept as my "control" subject and they have continued to be the very worst class....sort of proving the old saying of spare the rod and spoil the child.