An Introduction and a few Questions

[Quint]

HI Reader.

Thank you for viewing my post I hope you can offer some or any advice.

I am really surprised to find such a on the level down to earth esl site. After having gone to daves in the past often for tips and tricks. Now I dont think they have anything on Raouls. Especially the hospitality.

About me Im am a 26 year old New Zealander I look like I'm thirty feel like I'm 20 and sometimes when I think what Ive done I feel like I should be 60.
These days I try to live a righteous life with less and less mental baggage. Simply I want to take lightly the things most people take seriously.

The ESL has been nice. I am finishing my second year in Korea now and plan to arrive in China in around a month. I have a few Questions I humbly ask of you.....

Would it be possible to buy a car?
That runs well, after insurance and the hassle is it worth it? a little minibus trek could be interesting, anyone ever done long distance driving? road rules..?

Where Should I live and Why?
would it be better for me to find work in a semi populated city with ex pats and a reasonable amount of foreign people in transit, or a place that is busy and cheap. I need to stay south of the Yangtze.

How about The Schools?
Private school, public school, at home? which is a better situation? cash wise I'm not going to fuss a lot something reasonable is fine.

Apartments - accommodation?
Should I organize one myself or let the school haggle and bargain it in the contract? I may only be here for 6 months depending so I may or may not suit many positions as I assume they are more interested in longterm contact teachers.

Computers - printers, electronics?
How are the prices in Chinese city for semi dated electronic equipment. The qualities OK?

Visas...?
I guess its ok for me to arrive on a tourist visa do a little looking around then choose a working position.

The above is only my understanding please point out anything thats off. I hope that someone can offer a little advice. And I look forward to reading your posts in the saloon.

Kindest regards have a nice day.

Heshi
__/i


Quin

[Ruth]

Wow - welcome. I'll do my best, but others will surely do better in answering your questions.

About the car. You might want to rethink that after you see how people in China drive. Taxis and public transportation work really well in this country. If you are only staying for 6 months not sure I'd be bothered getting a license and buying a car. I've been here 2 1/2 years and never felt the need to drive. The WANT, yes, but the other drivers scare that out of me really well.

Where should you live? Depends entirely on what kind of experience you are looking for. I live in a small city and am as happy as a clam. Not the life for folks wanting action, western amenities, other foreigners and a night-life, though.

Schools - again, depends what you want. Might be difficult to build up business for at home without a contact system of some kind. Also have to worry about the residence permit and you really need a school for that.

Accommodation - A legit school should provide as part of the contract.

Computers, etc. - no problem finding a good one to purchase. Some schools provide one in the apt, some in the office. Prices range about equal with prices in the west.

Visas - my comfort level was to arrive with a working visa and a job, but I know others come in on a tourist and manage to find work and get the visa changed. I believe this is becoming more difficult.

[con's fly is open]

Cheers and welcome, Quint! I'll see what I can add to Ruth's post:

Buying a car is a mystery to most of us. In big cities you may encounter a mountain of red tape, plus maybe (I'm guessing ) some discrimination discouragement from the bureaucratic machine. Small towns, however, are deeply crooked, so your school could probably pull the right strings. But I doubt they will, since they are legally and directly responsible for your well-being, i.e. if you get m'kayed up in an accident it's their ass.

But where there's a will, there's a way. You'll be my hero, that's for sure.

Where to live depends entirely on what kind of lifestyle you want. I did a smallish burg on my first tour. The upside: they took good care of me, and I had a dozen good friends in the school. The downside: they were pretty much the only english speakers in town, and I was the only laowai (foreigner).

Big cities are exciting and have big ol' laowai populations. But they can be pretty cold places. I haven't made connections here in Suzhou as quickly as I'd hoped, but then I'm not the most independent guy in the world. You've already lived in a foreign country, so this isn't a problem for you, I'd bet.

Medium sized cities are a nice combination of the two: foreigners and stuff to do, but not so hectic and cold.

All in all, decide how fast a lifestyle you wish to lead, and choose accordingly.

The type of school that's best depends on: the age you prefer to teach (I'm smarting from 6 months of trying to control 4 year-olds ). I myself am leery of public schools: they tend to boast gigantic classes (tons of students per). But Ruth loves it. Universities seem to carry the most bullpoo, but also seem to give great pay for fewer hours. Private schools, IMHO, are best, but the hours can be wonky, i.e. weekends and afternoon/evenings, which kills the social life.

Me, I'm hoping for an industrial gig. But what matters is what kind of work environment suits you.

Apartments aren't easy for a newbie to arrange, but your school should help, as least sending someone to help you comb through the process. This shouldn't be a big deal, and any school that wouldn't bother helping you simply doesn't know what it's doing. But no matter what you do, NEVER LIVE AT YOUR SCHOOL! Trust me.

Computers and electronics are readily available here, at pretty good prices. If you already own stuff, bring it; if not, buy it here. Warrantees and repair will be less headache if the dealership's in town.

Of course, I know nothing about the shops in Korea. Maybe better and cheaper stuff abounds there.

Visas can be arranged by your school, if they're a legit operation. Don't sign a contract until they've promised you a Z-type. And I thnk you should come on a tourist L-type first, so you can visit prospective schools yourself. Could save you a horrible situation.

And wlecome in advance to the Big Crooked know as the PRC!

[Raoul Duke]

Welcome, Quint. Getting some good advice so far...

Car: You don't want one. Live here a while and see what I mean. Too much bureaucracy, too much anarchy on the roads. Nothing I can say will really paint the picture, all you can do is come get a load of it yourself. Taxis and trains are cheap. And funky.

City: Suzhou. Accept no substitutes. Comfy, interesting, close but not too close to Shanghai. All the forum members what gots two inches of string to play with are already here. There are jobs listed in our Help Wanted area.

Schools: It's all poo, doesn't matter. Only criterion is whether or not you can teach kids. I think the best gig is corporate training. Which Suzhou has lots of. Correction of Con: Unis typically offer LOUSY pay and fewer hours.

Apartments: Fewer places are offering apartments, more offering higher pay or apartment allowances. Your own apt has more options and privacy, arranged apt can have fewer hassles with utilities and repairs. Avoid schools that offer shared apts- foreign teachers here are a bunch of whiny, obnoxious drunks. Uh, wait a minnit...

Computers: Price and quality both good. Where do you think all the computers are made these days? Insist that key software- op system, MS Office, etc.- are in English. You can get it if you hold your ground.

Visas: Better to come in with a Z, but the tourist visa route can be done.

Welcome: Yes

[gengrant]

Yep...I agree...

[Newbs]

G'day Quint, welcome and haera ra (correct?) Copy on what everyone above said, especially re driving and an L visa. Don't think we've had kiwis here since the Roaming Kiwis dropped off the radar, which was a bit of a pity.

You forgot the really important stuff. What do you like to drink? Barkeep a glass of the saloon's finest of Quint's favourite, if you'd be so kind.

[George61]

Welcome abopard, Quint. We need a few Kiwis here...to help the Hogans keep the other nationalities in their proper place.
All the advice above is good. Keep your eyes, ears and mind open, and things will be fine.

[Miss Motz]

Welcome Quint, I'll shout you a long distance drink of your choice, express posted from Ozland. Good luck with the job search

[Ruth]

admin said:

Suzhou: All the forum members what gots two inches to play with are already here.

Not sure I'd be bragging about that, Raoul, but I don't understand these guy things .

No fair luring all the new people to Suzhou. There ARE other great places in China to live. Really.

[Non-Dave]

Welcome Quint, what George said.

If you want to drive here buy a big truck. Safer on the road, easier parking. Otherwise make sure your insurance is all paid up.

[Norbert Radd]

Buying a car's suicide. It's hairy at the best.
In Taipei all the new laowei bought motor scooters and I would see them soon wearing casts.
Korea's safe compared to here. FYI, I used to drive in Korea.
It's needless to buy a car because you can go everywhere for nothing and if it's a long trip, you're better off buying. My Chinese friends have opted to buy apartments rather than buy cars due to the expense and my Chinese friends who have cars tell me they can't afford the gas.
Good luck. Stay alive and don't drive [here]

[Ruth]

quint said:

road rules...? ... please point out anything that's off.

Okay, we seem to be unanimous with the car advice so far. About the road rules. I'm pointing out that your wording is 'off'. The rules are that the person with the biggest vehicle or the biggest horn or who seems to be in the biggest hurry gets to do what he/she wants. That includes making a left-hand turn out of a driveway, without looking, and driving down the wrong side of a street until one can get over onto the right side. It includes going through red lights and ignoring the fact that all the pedestrians have a green light on the crosswalk (just saw a POLICE car do that this morning). It includes driving on the wrong side of the road to pass a slower vehicle - on a hill on a curve and honking at other vehicles coming at you IN THEIR OWN LANE. They all seem to manage, but darned if I'd be trying to drive with them.

[Decurso]

Welcome Quint.Some good advice given here.I still haven't figured out if some people here are remarkably good drivers...or remarkably bad drivers that haven't been killed yet.China was more traffic accidants than anywhere else in the world...despite having fewer cars than many countries.

What Raoul said about the schools.You never can tell.Public schools tend to pay less,if that matters.Are you thinking of primary school,middle school or universities.If you are specific about age groups you want to teach..I'd go with public schools.In a lot of private schools you will be teaching a wide variety of age groups.

I don't find the prices of electronics here to be much cheaper than in Canada.The quality isn't great either.

[Norbert Radd]

I meant to say it's best to fly for long trips. How far's Raoul's party from the Shanghai airport?

[Raoul Duke]

Depends very much upon which Shanghai airport!

If you're traveling within China, never let a travel agent book you into Pudong International Airport! From central Shanghai, Pudong Airport is halfway to Okinawa. Insist on Hongqiao Airport, which is actually in Shanghai and not too far from the train station.

From the train station, Suzhou is an easy hour by train.

To get to the train station from Pudong airport, you can:
1) Get a slow, crowded bus or shuttle during limited hours. Or,
2) Take a taxi. Taxis have been known to charge laowai up to 400 RMB for a trip into town from Pudong Airport. Even on the meter it's over 150 RMB. Or,
3) Take the expensive maglev train to the nearest Metro stop. Take the Metro to the People's Square station. Change over to Metro Line 1 and go to the train station.

All of these choices suck. Use Hongqiao. International travelers may not have much choice...nearly all international flights go to Pudong.

There is more airport info available in our woefully underappreciated Links page...

[Newbs]

Suzhou is an easy hour by train

Quite correct unless:
Your name is Nate and
You are travelling during the May golden week.

[Lotus Eater]

Not only is buying the car difficult - parking it is just as difficult. I want a licence so I can HIRE a 4 x 4 for holidays - heading out of the city.

Why do you have to be south of the Yangzi? North has heating in winter - south doesn't and it can still get cold down there!

I work in a public university and love it. Accommodation is provided on campus and for me it's great - plenty of room, hardest commute decision is to decide whether to walk through the garden to class or beside the sports oval and watch all the fit people run around in short shorts.

I work 12 hours a week and although lots of people make more money here, I can live comfortably on what I do get and still have lots of fun and travel.

I have bought a laptop here, plus colour printer, flash disk, card reader, cd burner - all have been trouble free. Universities will sometimes provide you with a computer and printer (mine does - laser printer even!)

Many universities are used to 6 month contracts and will still provide accommodation for that.

What size place you live in can be determined by what you are actually coming to China for. The smaller the place the more chance to improve your Chinese and get to see a rapidly disappearing China. If you are here for money and investment stuff a bigger place with more western amenities and lots more westerners may be more your style.

If you mix with foreigners there is little incentive to learn Chinese - the bare basics of money and your address to tell the taxi driver will get you by for 6 months. Everything else you can do by pointing!

[Quint]

Dear Crew



Wow what great advice, Cheers. Thank you so much. Your tips about automobiles are a little scary, I guess its not like OZ where you sometimes have the road to yourself.
Actually I went to Beijing in 2002 for a visa run and remember the people would just walk out in front of traffic too, I would freak out like a slow motion clip of me hollering stoooppp and the Chinese person just strolling into traffic, cars adjusted their speed and no problem except me standing there like a bit of a moron. as for how it actually happened thats how I remember it.

As for ages to teach, I really dont mind. Teaching at a University, I doubt I have proper experience for that. Maybe a private school with mixed classes will be suitable. I would appreciate to sit down with adults for a change. Kids are fine.

I have lived in a "Goshiwon" in Korea for about 8 months now and can deal with a 4 x 4 mtr cell apartment. lol so doubt I can be classed as fussy.

I will be looking forward to coming over as soon as I can. As for Suzhou... well why not I say. I think I will take that route first Shanghai main airport and then the bus I have seen on tv a week ago that the shanghai mien is scrumptious?.

Why south of Yangtse? Just feel like some warm weather and some nice warm night strolling in the nature or suburbs.
as for my favorite drink. It would have to be a Chivas regal on the rocks

Thanks a lot for the advice I will take it.
kindest regards


Quint

[Ruth]

Your memories of pedestrians crossing the street sound about right, Quint. I'm now quite comfortable dodging traffic until I get to the safety of the yellow line and waiting there with cars buzzing by on either side of me until the next break in traffic lets me all the way across. Guess I'm acclimated.

[Decurso]

quint said:

photobucket.com/albums/v647/saloonsmile/bj.gif

[/img] I guess its not like OZ where you sometimes have the road to yourself [/quote]



As for living in the south,you may get more warmth than you bargained for.All of China is really hot in the summer and really cold in the winter.The difference is the degree.The north is brutally freezing in the winter...while southern summers produce the kind of heat that kills old people and children.If ideal,year round warm weather is what you seek...try Yunnan Province.It's supposed to have the best year round weather.It sounds like you are planning on being here for the summer...and summer in most southern cities is not ideal for pleasant walks.

Another tip on private schools vs. public schools.In a public school you will likely teach in the same place all the time.Many private schools subcontract their teachers to various public schools and institutions around town.This can involve a lot of commuting...OK in a smaller city,but a chore in a bigger city.

[con's fly is open]

Quint, maybe you should take a page from Raoul's book: he teaches corporate. They're mature, motivated students, you simply teach with little added chores, and the pay's quite good. May very well take my own advice.

I'd miss never being around kids, though. Unrelenting grownup company slowly saps my will to live.

[woza17]

I really must read the instruction manual first I thought Quint was the 60 year old guy from Canada.

If you want to buy a car ,Hainan is the best place great roads and the locals are to piss poor to own a car. I think I could drive a car there with no worries.

I am a defensive driver always looking for the problems ahead.. I have never had an accident that was my fault.

[George61]

I have never had an accident that was my fault.

Spoken like a true woman, Woza!

[Quint]

Yunan ?
northern Lao mountains? around there right.. Maybe that would be best weather wise. a little hillbilly though? I dont feel like being a local rockstar...maybe I will have to tough out a hot one.

Hainan?
wheres that woza? I couldnt find it on the map is it the island? thats a good place to drive?

[woza17]

Hainan is an island at the southern most tip of China.

The beaches are realtively clean and the interior is mountainous. I dont know about driving around the mountainous roads. A couple of years ago I went with a convoy of 5 cars and we drove all around the island, great trip.
We were in a those Pajero 4WD.
The same group are planning to drive to Beijing for the olympics in 2008