intro number 2

[ramsey314]

uh is this the right page for the intro? damn.
ok.
Im lucas. 24. living in portland oregon og from st louis missouri. went to college in portland. love the city but ive worked a string of lame jobs for the last 2 yrs and want a big change. my lovely girlfriend is graduating college in july and we both wanted to get out of the us. after a bunch of looking china seems by far to be the best bet, so now were on to info gathering.
so... before i get on to some serious questions, ive got some social q's. 1) tattoos... i have a full sleeve and might have another before i get there. i got like over 70 hours. hows that going to go over in china?
2) music: i grew up going to hardcore/punk/oi and hip hop shows.... is there any sort of music scene in china?
3) beers! what are the bars like? whats the beer and liquor like? i dont think ive ever met a beer i didnt like, and as long as i can still get a shot of tequila here and there...

[Dr. Gonzo]

Sounds like you'll be needing Shanghai or Beijing for the music.
Didn't see many tats in China. I'd suggest long sleeves for school, assuming that's what you'll be doing.
The country's awash with beer. Western spirits are in the bigger dept stores, supermarkets, and the prices are about what you'd pay in the West; cheaper in some cases, eg a Russian vodka around $10 US. Bars catering for foreigners are ripoffs.
Chinese spirits make most people throw up They're cheap though.

[ramsey314]

fair enough. i know in some cultures (eg thai) tattoos arent exactly culturally accepted so i figured i might end up in long sleeves more often than not. what exactly are chinese spirits? as in can you compare it to any sort of western liquor? also, im a smoker... seems like most people ive met who are native chinese smoke alot. cigarette prices and brands? im sure a pack of camel wides would be more expensive than something local. any ideas as far as what i can expect on that front?

[George61]

You'd better get used to local smokes. Most of us do. Camels would be expensive in the major cities, non-existant anywhere else....and they might be fakes.

OOps...forgot to say "Welcome aboard"..........Welcome aboard, Rams.

[Non-Dave]

Welcome Ramsey314!
Tats: I've been advised that tats (in my area at least) are pretty common, but not seen much in the winter. I've been told to wait for summer when the heavy clothes come off to see lots of tats - especially on the young ladies. I'm waiting.... Apparently tats on men means you are a "bad man" - could work in your favour in the classroom - high school classrooms at least. Maybe some good lesson material there (not sure if I'm joking or not???)
Music: Do you like Celine Dion, Backstreet Boys or the Carpenters? If so, China will be heaven for you. If not, Beijing and Shanghai are the only options.
Beer: Pleanty of it and cheap. Cheaper than Coke. Better for you than Coke. You will be offered beer for breakfast, lunch and dinner. No point trying to explain Baijiu - just wait till you get here and try it for yourself.
Smokes: I came here thinking I would quit. Bad move. Local brands from 3 RMB a pack. Get used to the local brands or find a good dealer who brings in packs from Taiwan or somewhere.

Which areas are you looking at?

[ramsey314]

well, at this point we are looking at provinces in the south... havent really narrowed it down much. my girlfriend is from sandiego california and HATES cold weather... so, its off to the south. at this point were really just trying to figure out where and how were getting there. she graduates july 15th, so what were thinking is leave the us sometime in early august. heres where it gets messy: seems like we have 3 options. 1) just go. 2) enroll in a school there to get a tefl/celta or similar certification and attempt to get jobs after the certification is complete. 3) find a program in an area we like (as much as you can like a place having only seen it on the internet) that offers employment similar to the teach-in-china.cn program... but frankly i am warry of doing that, having read a number of school reviews. seems like everyone gets screwed on their contract to some degree. any thoughts or advice?

[Eagle's Nest]

Hey Ramses,

Is your choice to move out of the USofA a short-term move? or a career move? Do you know why you are looking to China instead of warmer places such as Indonesia or Thailand? It does get cold in most of China in the winter time, not Canadian cold, but cold non-the-less. I have no doubt that beer and cigs are found worldwide.

I'm not suggesting that China isn't an option, I'm just wondering ...

As you likely know, I am going to China with my woman as well. This is like a retirement celebration for us. I have finished 31 years as a teacher and school administrator (principal) in the Canadian school system. Now it the time to travel, stretch and not have to worry about money! Yay retirement! And to think I will get paid doing this (okay so the money isn't exactly much, but still ... no rent, no utilities, no pesky relatives) ... and there are all those photos waiting to be taken so that I can torture my children and grandchildren when I return home.

By-the-way ... Welcome

[ramsey314]

well, actually, after 4 years of college at a decent school, i just sort of assumed that the job of my dreams would fall into my lap... its ok, youre laughing with me. so in the 2 years since graduation ive had something like 7 jobs... if i liked them, they couldnt cover my expenses, if i hated them, i could afford to live, just hated my life. after a nmber of in depth conversations with my girlfriend, i realized ive some serious searching to do. what china seems to offer is 1) a radical change 2) a place where i can in effect work part time and still make enough to cover expenses and travel 3) a potential start to a career/life out of america. really, im not sure if china is where we will end up long term but from what i can gather it would be one of the hardest (culturally) yet easiest (economically) places to get a start as far as world travel/teaching/etc goes. pretty much it sounds like the economic opportunities there are damn near unparalleled as far as teaching english goes. now just figuring out how to get there, get a job, not get screwed, and have a good time.

[Lotus Eater]

I was going to suggest Lhasa for the tats - keeping the long sleeves on there won't be so hard as in the south where it gets really hots and humid. Here in summer you see some tats - but generally just on a shoulder or forearm, or maybe a faded tiger or eagle on the back. Girls may have discreet bits on ankles or shoulder. Not as prevalent as in Oz or other western countries - and certainly I have never seen full body armour the way I did back in Oz. There is a general perception that it is underworld types that have tattoos but this is gradually changing - in the younger people, but school bosses??? Especially private schools may be a bit dodgy. People have been asked to cut hair etc as the image isn't right.

[Norbert Radd]

Hi: Welcome. There's a punk bar in Wuhan, one bar for a city that's got over 10 million people. Come on out to China and try it out but why not go to grad school so you could get a groovy expat job because ESL...well last week, I was told I could work here as long as I wanted by a head walla and invited to sit by him at a banquet and this morning I was read a 2-page letter of my alleged sins and got to feel it was 1966 all over again and that I should sign a confession as well as wear a pointed hat and crawl overbroken glass.
It's all part of the learning curve.
Try to hook up with a green company in OR and set up their factory here and try to sell the goods to the locals.
Down here, on Hong Kong radio, there's lots of complaints about airpollution. Guess where it comes from?

[cheekygal]

I've had a friend in Qingdao, a Canadian, with a mohawk and tones of tattoos. Of course to school he would cover some of them but just walking outside he never had anyone who'd possibly disturb him because of his tattoos.
Punk culture is getting stronger in China. I've personally met with a few bands from Beijing and Qingdao. And they are great chaps
Hip-hop culture is also pretty huge here. Of course it is all different from US@ but oh well you'll see
Bars... plenty. If you are looking for a place to get wasted - you can easily do it even near the grocery shop
Most of the foreigners get adjusted to Zhongnanhai - a local cigarette brand, quite cheap, has different *grades* of nicotine in it (10, 8, 7, 6, 5 )
Contracts... well, just read the reviews and be careful with your contract. Sign a short-term contract, like 6 months. But if you are looking into part-time jobs - well then you gotta be here to find them
Good luck

[Norbert Radd]

I'll put SZ/HK arial photo over in the photos

[Norbert Radd]

Google Shenzhen in images and you can take a look see

[Dr. Gonzo]

Once you nail down a location and the type of teaching you want, the rest should be easy.
I'm suggesting Fuzhou and all points south for the weather. As newbies you may find junior or even [especially?] middle high school the stuff breakdowns are made of. College and uni have short hours and the necessaries provided. Pay, though modest, is sufficient, especially with 2 incomes. Also, teacher couples are attractive to employers: two teachers, one apartment.
As for a TEFL, whist it may be useful to you personally, there are plenty of schools out there who really don't care. A degreed native speaker, especially from the US, preferably erm Caucasian [there are non-Caucasians out there doing it, its just the hurdle is set higher for them], generally has no trouble finding a job.

[woza17]

Welcome Ramsay, A few years ago I went to a punk bar in an old church in Wuhan. I don't like punk music .

On the notice board there was a big poster stating that punk music was not a crime, a few beers under my belt I couldn't help writing underneath in bold texta, well it should be.

The guys in the band were lovely they could actually play their instuments.

Tatts, I don't think go down well in China, job wise. I would suggest that when you are on the job you dress modestly. I certainly do. One of our ex teachers used to wear low cut tops with a midriff thing happening and the school complained. I was glad, cause it wasn't pretty.

[con's fly is open]

I have a tattoo: a flag of Canada. And yes, that's just a skinny maple leaf (never been called on that). The Chinese are fascinated by it. In China they are considered criminal-element features, but as for us laowai: "It's okay, they're like that. But since you'll be a teacher, I'd advise you to compensate with preppy clothes. And be preared to explain what they mean, and that it's just fashion back home, etc.

Beer: be prepared to be pleasantly surprised by the quality... and unable to adjust to prices when you go back home. A 630 mL bottle (metric: a N. American bottle is 355mL) runs 1.5 kwai in small towns, up to 3 kwai in Shanghai. In other words: between 13 and 25 cents US. Might as well be free! And there is always a local kick-ass brewery...

Baijiu: if you knew, you might not come. Everyone has to drink the once; afterwards have it written in your contract that being forced to drink it is grounds for quitting. It's that bad.

Tequila: Decent brands here, and you'll be able to afford them.

Music: Let's put it this way: a good rule of thumb is that everyone who comes to China overpacks terribly. come light... except for music and books. These people, Mao bless 'em, have no taste in music, and not enough English books.

Cigarettes: More brands, with a tremendous variety of styles, quality and prices. I find them TOO cheap: quitting's a bitch here. It took me a severe bout of pneumonia to kick.

So you'll have to sample to find your perfect cancer. Oh, you can get Yank smokes here: more expensive, but still cheap enough that they might as well be free.

[Ruth]

My husband has tatoos and it hasn't really been an issue here. Some attention on the beach, but nothing from the school admins.

My two jiao's worth is to get an online TEFL now. My husband and I did one. While not as intense as attending a course, the advantages are: you can do it at home on your own time, less expensive, and - most important - you get the piece of paper. May not hold water back home for ESL qualifications, but works for China.

Get a job offer and Z visa before you come. It's the legit way to go. You've got lots of time to research good placements for the fall.

Decurso can surely answer your music question.

[Raoul Duke]

Wow!

As you've surmised by now, visible tats will be a problem in many schools, especially if there are a lot of them. Ditto on piercings. Wear long sleeves. At least for the interview.

Music- the saccharine tastes described above very much hold sway, but it's not hard to find better western music and hip-hop from all over. (Yes, there really is Chinese hip-hop.) It's not limited to just Beijing and Shanghai although the scenes are much stronger there. Good CDs are penetrating deeper into the country every day, and tolerable live music can be found somewhere in many cities. Might take a while but you'll get there.

Smokes- Damn it, Chinese smokes are good. I was hoping they wouldn't be. They're cheap, too. Best of all, China is just one big ashtray- outside of some public transporation and all Western chain restaurants, there are few places strictly off limits for smoking. I've been in the line at the emergency room clinic, only to have the doctor come over and offer me a 555 and light it for me, right there in the hospital. People smoke in elevators here.

Beer- China is the Promised Land, my son, as long as you're OK with light-bodied lager beers.

Baijiu- think "fruit-flavored turpentine" and you're in the ballpark as to how horrible this stuff really is.

Tequila- there's always a shot set up for ya in Suzhou. Come on down.

[nolefan]

music scene in China is slowly improving. Shows are everywhere in the country but no one advertises them outside of the bigger cities.
As far as tattoos and piercings, mine have never been a problem. All my uni students know about the dozen ink jobs on my body and I've kept my eyebrow piercing throughout the two years i was at university. To be fair though, I just didn't go out of my way to showcase any of them... I got the occasional comment the first few weeks but then it was just part of the norm.

[Lotus Eater]

Baijiu: if you knew, you might not come. Everyone has to drink the [image] once; afterwards have it written in your contract that being forced to drink it is grounds for quitting. It's that bad.

Baijiu isn't that bad after the 4th shot. The first 3 - when your taste buds are alive are "interesting' but after that - hey - it's fine!!

I'm the alcohol type that gets more energetic when drinking - so after my 26th shot in one day (starting 11:00am and going through to 11:00pm - spread out nice and easy) I was A-LIVE and next day NO hangover - don't mix it with anything. I mean no other alcohol at the same time and no mixers in the baijiu.

The Tu minority women in Qinghai are the people to go drinking with!

Lunch time - invites like this come from asking people to sing some more.


And the shots are offered in 3's.

[con's fly is open]

I'd be doing something else in threes:

[George61]

Weaky guts!!

[woza17]

Anti-freeze spot on.

[Lotus Eater]

connell said:

I'd be doing something else in threes:

The food was fine Con - no problems!!

[gengrant]

I don't think Conny was thinking food...