On Communication

[joe]

What do Chinese students, all of them, need in a teacher?

The kiddies are kids, and they need someone who loves kids. The adults are owners of things, with responsibilities and position, and they need someone at least modestly competent. But the gormless twits in between, the ones in secondary and tertiary educational institutions?

If they haven't got someone significantly competent, they need someone personable, with a personality big enough to fill the room, someone who'll play sports with the boys and flirt with the girls (or vice versa). Someone who'll get into their lives. They'll respond to that.

Competence doesn't cut it. They need their frisson of connection.

That's assuming the teacher is into practicing communicative methods in class.

I don't think I'll blame the students for that. If this scenario is sufficiently recognisable that it can be understood to exist across China, then it's the circumstance, not the individual, even the individuals be pricks too.

What if the backbone of any lesson were not something communicative?

(And lord knows, if you are breaking in a new class, why would something communicative be expected to work?)

What would another backbone be?

[hankuh]

Start intellectually masturbating to them for about 15 minutes in Slavic, talk about Kant and New Historicism, throw in that time you got drunk and delirious in Tasmania, and then ram a five page essay exam--written in Aramaic--upon them, admonishing them that they had "better damn well perform acceptably" or you will rape their mothers, turn their homes into brothels, and make them all your little whores!

Brother, that's backbone! ;D

What are your expectations?

You seem to be rhetorically challenging something that isn't there to begin with, or are your expectations as ambiguous as your rhetoric?

You can't expect them to be intellectually communicative if that's what you're seeking...

[acjade]

Do you have to keep on reminding me about the time I got blotto in Tasmania?
Nag, nag nag!

[Lotus Eater]

I don't have the definitive answer on what students need - but boy I sure do on what teachers should have! Students like mine!!

Today we were beginnning our work on Hofstede's Cultural Dimensions and during the break they came up and started discussing his methodology and analysing his weaknesses with me! We had a great discussion - lively, intelligent and not text book produced!!!! Theyy were disagreeing with stuff - and putting forward good reasons for their views. Wonderful.

Because I hold the debating training in my apartment, either late afternoon or early evening, the students realise that I don't have time to eat - so they are now bringing me my meals on those night! And my Film Appreciation course is also held in my apartment (and at night - I changed it from a day-time schedule) and for this I usually provide drinks and nibblies - so last night the students turned up with pineapple on a stick for me. They take over - walk in, set up the room and then clean up after. And this way the class is longer than the allotted timetable, but everyone is happy to stay and put in the extra time. We get much better discussion because they are in an informal setting and the whole thing flows better.


Keen, lively, NICE students are heaven. All teachers should have them.

[joe]

Damn you, bubba! I'm right there with you on the Aramaic and the raping mothers -- get a little jesus in their heathen lives --, but you know what communicative practice is already!

Either the student learns and practices the language by using it to communicate something (after having had the necessary language introduced and modelled) or the student amasses what might not-quite-laughably be called an academic appreciation of the language. Small group work is good for the first, writing and multiple choice questions are good for the second.

So what's a teacher to do if he supposes himself to be teaching the language (as opposed to teaching critical and cultural understandings aka teaching reading and writing).


I've been considering a return to college work, but the inflexibility of it, its unforgiving nature, and the significant lack of professional reward has begun to overwhelm me, even as the amount of free time attracts. So I've been trying to work out a syllabus that has some basis in the Chinese classroom reality. Speaking classs attract me more than any intellectual pursuit like writing or debating class. Lotus' experience notwithstanding, Chinese don't have a whole lot to say that isn't grounded in dirt and perversely prideful humility.

And I never was in Tasmania.

[con's fly is open]

I have come to believe that kindergarten and college students alike need the same thing: a dialogue on what truly interests them. My sprogs' English has accellerated lately, since I began engaging them less during English Class and more over the course of the day: they'll damn well chuck "Ne also want ketchup" and "I angry!" if it takes correct grammar to get Mr. Con's attention.

Same goes with young adults: they actually lean forward when you make the subject matter relevant to their lives. There's examples upstairs in the Saloon English Project thread, so I won't bore you here.

A communicative teacher needs enough intuition to suss out what kind of things his students would want to be able to get across in English. And you're right: the first class is little more than an educated guess. Teacher better adjust to what he sees in a hurry, or the class will be deeply painful for everybody. Communication requires chemistry.

[acjade]

joe said:

Damn you, bubba!
And I never was in Tasmania.

Quite so. I can verify that. I was and he wasn't. Simple past tense,

But oh those muscles... do create somewhat a slight frisson of beingness. What a great gift we ( meaning my chinese children) and I have been sent.

Wish you had been in Tassie.

[joe]

connell said:

I have come to believe that kindergarten and college students alike need the same thing: a dialogue on what truly interests them.

I think you're right.

Same goes with young adults: they actually lean forward when you make the subject matter relevant to their lives.

I think their lives are astonishingly empty. They have Byzantine relationship systems, but not much inside themselves. I think what truly interests them is novelty and the personal lives of other people, which they observe with a minimum of affect.

But that's only what I have been able to observe. I have been a crap teacher for some little time. I think there's something more.


I'm not wearing any pants. Film at 11.

[woza17]

Joe, there is a Chinese word for this excuse the pinyin yah dah. It literally means deaf mute but is applied to Chinese people who can read and write English but can't speak or understand.

[con's fly is open]

I'll remember that, Woza.

Yeah, Joe, I always had to put myself out there a bit to draw the punks in. The trick I used was to let them slide in safely: "My best subject is English, my worst, by far, is all the sciences. I really suck." Then I had them all report their best and worst subjects. They weren't saying HOW good or bad they were at these, so they could safely give answers without any chance of ridicule (mind, taunting another student in MY class gets you one squre in the nuts).

Likewise with beginner kids: "I like blue. I don't like yellow". Apart from the structure they learn, it's the first chance they get to express their true selves. And it's not like anyone can take them to task for liking orange.

It's funny how you have to gradually teach them to be open about who they are, practically from scratch. "Face" is utter cancer to learning.

[woza17]

On the way back from work this morning I was chatting with this really cute little Chinese English teacher who has just startedwotking with the company. She was rightly pissed off fwith one of the class who asked her to just teach the book. The teacher apparently had the effrontry to ask them questions that they would actually have to think about and answer.
She went on to say, mabye I am wrong and should just teach the old way That was my cue to come in and say no you are right and tomorrow point out the twit that said that and I will give them my opinion.
Never heard such nonsense. This teacher is really great her English is the best in the office.

[Newbs]

Woza, your friend is the China of the future, I hope. If she doesn't make her students think for themselves, well, ... I don't know what.

As I read your post I had a glimpse of the future. Your Chinese friend will have to "suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" a fair bit, but I hope that she sticks to her guns, and ultimately becomes a shining example for her colleagues, whereever she teaches.

Using your judgement, please pass my comments on to her.

[con's fly is open]

You continue to rock, Woza.

So will this teacher be at the summer camp?

[Non-Dave]

Keep encouraging her Woza. China needs teachers like her desperately.

I had a similar discussion along these lines with my teaching assitant this afternoon - because of poor scheduling 2 of my classes overlap and she starts my primary school class with a phonetics lesson. "Do you think it's best if they are smiling like when you teach them or the Chinese way - just make them repeat words?" she asked... we had a great talk about teaching objectives and methods. There's hope yet.

I'm doing introductions and meeting people in my high school classes. I can guarantee one of the class will tell me it's too easy - but then when I invite them to demonstrate they can't manage anything other than the parrot fashion Chinglish greeting. Maybe it's easy BUT YOU CAN'T DO IT!

[woza17]

Thanks Newbs darling
Non Dave doesn't it piss you off, oh it is so easy but you say it baby. Look we do take our job seriously, not the powers that be. I teach middle school 7 hours a week a class of 6o once a week. My job is to make them speak English in class.
Are the schools taking this seriously? No also the point is to get the kids through the exams. I am totally not needed. After Summer I will not teach anymore in classes that piss me off.

[Non-Dave]

Yeah, some of us do take our jobs seriously.

I may act like a party clown in the classroom but I can also show a lesson plan for each class, specific objectives and desired outcomes for the students to achieve and I can discuss the teaching methods I'm using.

I know some of the kids get it, most of them at least enjoy the change of pace and I don't give a rats about the others. I know the school just likes to have a foreigner there to point at and my boss likes to make more than he pays each month.

This term several of the public schools have changed from "you must do the foreigners class" to "you can if you want to". This has cut down the class sizes dramatically (before, an average of 80 per class - now, an average of 30 per class). My boss thinks the world has ended. I think it's great. The smaller classes are filled with kids eager to learn.

[woza17]

That's great Non Dave.
I passed on all the encouraging comments to Amy in the car this morning she had a good class the troublemaker was absent.

I really enjoyed my class too. I love this book I am using at the moment Advanced communication games. I love it when all the students are moving around the classroom speaking English while they try to complete their task. Laughing speaking out loud feeling confident. Also I am not bored, the students get to express their personalities and I get to know them better

[con's fly is open]

Yeah, pretty cool. Antti called Mark a "mushroom" today after class. Just doing my job.

[woza17]

What, kept in the dark and fed on bullpoo. Gee those kids are verry advanced

[con's fly is open]

[woza17]

Does anyone have this experience. Last night in class the topic was your dream house and I went through the vacab and sentence structure and asked the student to prepare a short talk about their dream house, write some notes down. One of my students thought this was not necessary and she could just talk without preparation.
I counterd by saying in my experience the students take to long thinking about what to say and how to say it and the class gets bored and it's too slow. But if that's what you want to do OK. The class took too long to express themselves and the rest of the students were bored.

I often don't do this because of the above but why can't they see it for themselves and spend the time preparing their answers.
After class the student with the brilliant suggestion apologised. I like this student a lot and it wasn't a big deal. i told her I welcome input from the class which I do. How do the other esteemed teachers deal with this?

[Mr Nobody]

Yeah, Woza, I have this happen too. However, I feel that the writing then speaking doesn't engage the part of the brain they need to practice with, so I put up with it. Writing it then saying it out won't teach them as much as on the spot thinking, I reckon, once they have shown they can write dialogues. Extemporaneous dialogue is the goal, after all.

That being said, I also use chanting because they can practice new words, and they feel they have learned something (deary me) and I use reading out from something written to correct diction and elocution and pronunciation.

And, as the man in "neuromancer" said: "Time be time, mon".

[Stil]

I like to put them in pairs and let them write a dialogue and practise but then to present I split the pairs into different ones. I feel they get the chance to prepare and see their conversations but then must adapt these for the presentation portion. It kind of eliminates that sort of recital feeling for the most part. I still get some interesting conversations from students that only memorise what they wrote. Things like A- 'What's your name?' B- 'I'm fine thank you and you?' It's a good laugh for all.

[woza17]

This morning was a bit of a flop, this class really needs directed dialog.

Stil good comments. Mr N what does the big word mean, the one starting with E.
I know what you are getting at but they really need to organise their thoughts initially at this level.

I was talking about us all going to Zhuhai for a day trip.
We were talking about what we should see and stuff like this. Bob wants to go and see a teaching building at the uni which is apparently the longest teaching building in the universe.
Well Bob that sounds interesting, now if it was the longest bar I might show some interest.

[acjade]

Woza that's one of the funniest things I've read on the forum.

I imagined what you wrote/said spoken in a Joyce Grenfall tone of voice.