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Post by gaisum206 on Aug 10, 2006 7:47:41 GMT 7
Thank for that. What is the best way to get the school to negotiate the salary?
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Post by Raoul Duke on Aug 10, 2006 14:50:41 GMT 7
Tell them you'd love to work for them, but you can't take that salary (apartment, hours load, or whatever the sticking point is). Make them the most reasonable counteroffer you can...maybe even plus a bit, leaving them room to bargain you back down and save some face.
Maybe the most important tip on negotiation is to never get desperate. Stick to your guns. If they won't get you close enough to what you want, turn and walk away. There's literally a million other places you can go in China.
I hope you're not still talking to that school in Shijiazhuang. I got a bad feeling about the town and the school.
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Uli
Up And Coming
Posts: 31
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Post by Uli on Aug 22, 2006 4:57:51 GMT 7
Hello, forum!
I'm a German considering to go to SICFL, too. The person, one Xu Hui, must be a recruiter, since he is looking for teachers for several schools. I have called him once so far but didn't manage to get any useful information due to communication problems.
He says he wants to recruit me and already sent me a contract before even talking to me. Also, there seem to be quite a number of ads on the web for SICFL, and I don't really understand why they should have such difficulties finding someone. After reading this thread, my skepticism was increased, but nevertheless I am going to stay in touch and see what comes of it. If it's real, it would be a good offer, I think.
Uli
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Post by Raoul Duke on Aug 22, 2006 12:28:18 GMT 7
Hi Uli, and welcome! Please consider NOT working with a recruiter. You'll be glad you didn't. It shouldn't be hard to find contacts directly at SICFL...I'm sure we can help if you need it. Where have I heard the name Xu Hui?
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Uli
Up And Coming
Posts: 31
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Post by Uli on Aug 23, 2006 4:57:50 GMT 7
Thanks! You must be right with your skepticism about recruiters. Xu Hui keeps sending me strange and repetitive messages ("Can I hire you as a teacher?") without answering any of my specific questions. Phone conversation didn't yield any useful information either. I've got now another offer from a school near Harbin which seems more promising (although it's a rather chilly place in the utmost north). For discussion of Xu Hui, email me sirius rebels.com.
Uli
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Post by Raoul Duke on Aug 23, 2006 13:24:54 GMT 7
I'm definitely right about this one. I've seen enough of the long trail of anger and misery recruiters have caused.
Tell Xu Hui to get lost. Block his e-mail address if you have to. Harbin is not that bad a place, and the reality is that there are LOTS of jobs to be had all over. Don't get rushed...take your time and shop carefully.
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Post by Becster79 on Aug 24, 2006 17:52:40 GMT 7
Okay, now I REALLY have to ask....why on EARTH can a guy from GERMANY get a job as an ENGLISH TEACHER in China? Hmm? Hmm? What happened to the US, UK, Aussie, NZ, Sth Africa rule?? It's not fair....and come to think of it what about Filipino English Teachers? They don't come from an English speaking country, it's only a 2ND language to them! We've got one that should be arriving today or even here now, should be interesting.....
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Post by AMonk on Aug 24, 2006 20:33:15 GMT 7
Hi Becs Please don't rush to a hasty judgement. One of my ESL students is English, but his "native" tongue is French/German. He is also fluent in Spanish, Italian and Arabic....the spoken versions.
Several Philipino teachers (and Indian and West African) are really good at their jobs, and very knowledgeable. The biggest "drawback" is the regional accents. And that's also a problem for some Native Speakers....Cockney, southern US, Scots, Texas drawl, West Indian etc.
At the moment, you are all FTs together. Please stay supportive and open-minded with your new co-teachers.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Aug 24, 2006 22:34:23 GMT 7
Good advice, AMonk.
There are in fact quite a number of Continental Europeans (CEs) teaching English in China and a great many do quite a good job.
I will concede that it happens in some cases because in some schools a white face means more than native fluency (or anything else). Sad but true.
However, I've known a great number of CEs, particularly Germans and Dutch, who spoke flawless English at native proficiency or above. These folks were at least as eligible to teach EFL as anyone else I know. Europe has a great education system and produces quite a few true language talents.
So please, don't judge anyone purely by national origin.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Aug 24, 2006 22:39:58 GMT 7
Oh, and since I'm not clear there which country(ies) you're talking about, I'd add that for many the Philippines are very much a native-English-speaking country. English is, I believe, an official language, and many Filipinos grow up in purely English-speaking homes.
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Uli
Up And Coming
Posts: 31
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Post by Uli on Aug 25, 2006 1:10:28 GMT 7
Okay, now I REALLY have to ask....why on EARTH can a guy from GERMANY get a job as an ENGLISH TEACHER in China? Hmm? Hmm? It may come as a surprise to you but the college in question is teaching German as well. Although I applied as a German teacher, Xu Hui keeps begging me to come as an English teacher, probably because no one suitable from an English speaking country is available at the conditions & the time. Also, teaching is not only about being native, although it's preferable if teachers are native speakers, of course. Uli
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Newbs
SuperDuperBarfly!
If you don't have your parents permission to be on this site, naughty, naughty. But Krusty forgives
Posts: 2,085
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Post by Newbs on Aug 25, 2006 3:49:29 GMT 7
My 2 jiaos worth.
1st Jiao. Uli, although you should stay away from this jerk, as others have already said, maybe the fact that you can also offer German increases your bargaining power. There are institutes around that teach German, and maybe such teachers aren't so easy to find. Just a thougt.
2nd jiao. Being a non-native speaker of the language can be an advantage at times. It means that you learnt the language as a conscious effort when you were a teenager/adult/whatever. So you can recall the difficulties you had, and the ways you found to make it easier for you, and you can pass these on to your pupils.
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Post by Becster79 on Aug 25, 2006 7:13:32 GMT 7
Raoul, I didn't know that. If they're an English speaking country then why can't they be on the list as 'native speakers' that universities are able to hire? Or is it just the schools themselves making assumptions about them?
I was just always curious about how non natives can still get work as an English teacher here?
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Post by George61 on Aug 25, 2006 7:29:05 GMT 7
Schools here are often staffed by uneducated people. When Babe phoned someone at my previous school, about a job for me, they didn't believe Australia was an English-speaking country!! (and no smartarse cracks, thank you!!)
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Post by AMonk on Aug 25, 2006 18:17:29 GMT 7
Ignorance has no boundaries I am constantly amazed stunnedblown away by the levels of stupidity ignorance which my fellow (?) humans demonstrate. AM
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Post by Raoul Duke on Aug 25, 2006 23:30:28 GMT 7
Becster, I think a lot of the answer lies in plain old racism. It can be argued that India, The Philippines, many West African countries, and more produce native speakers of English, but the Chinese traditionally look down on these countries from a racial standpoint. Even more than they do us, I mean. Qualification to teach English really doesn't connect all that much to being a native speaker. It's more to do with the quality of your English, your skill as a teacher, and so on. I've met a great many non-native speakers who speak impeccable English and are great teachers. I've met a great many native speakers with absolutely dreadful English and/or who were dreadful teachers. I do believe that non-native teachers have a clear advantage at lower fluency levels; in fact I strongly believe that teachers of absolute beginner English should be native speakers of the students' native tongue. I believe that native speakers have a clear advantage at very high fluency levels, when the students start learning more colloquial stuff. George, there's no need for smart-ass cracks, so don't worry. 'Strine actually ISN'T English...technically it's really a form of Pidgin. But there's absolutely almost no reason for you to feel very ashamed or angry or unhappy about this fact! 'Strine is an indelible part of the world's culture; part of what makes the world an interesting and exotic place...just like foot-binding, suttee, cannibalism, or yodeling. We should learn to cherish and appreciate these cultural distinctions. Among my closest friends here are several foreigners from Canada...Con, Loops, Chris... and I've come to really enjoy the colorful ethnic folk-dancing that inevitably ensues when they all get together. So don't worry, my fair dinkum bilong gutpela friend!
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Post by George61 on Aug 26, 2006 1:46:06 GMT 7
mmmm...a selection of garbled dialects there, Raoul. Firstly, "fair dinkum" is genuine Australian....good! The next bit is a touch of Pidgin, but the grammar is wrong. There is no need for "bilong" in this sentence. Possibly, you meant to write (and I'm only guessing, here)...."Mi gutpela pren bilong yu" As always, spelling is important.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Aug 26, 2006 2:15:08 GMT 7
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Post by George61 on Aug 26, 2006 2:28:48 GMT 7
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Uli
Up And Coming
Posts: 31
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Post by Uli on Aug 26, 2006 3:20:18 GMT 7
Thanks, Newbs. I am trying to find German teaching schools, but there are only very few compared to those teaching English, and considerably less even relatively to the smaller number of German native speakers who are also looking for jobs. So it's a bit more difficult for us to find a decent one. But not impossible... (I should think)
Uli
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Post by Raoul Duke on Aug 26, 2006 15:54:38 GMT 7
Uli, If you're not already you should take a look at the Suzhou-Shanghai-Hangzhou-Ningbo area. There's quite a large concentration of German people and industry here, and may be a bigger demand for instruction in the language. I've seen companies here in Suzhou that had little interest in my English programs but were avidly seeking German teachers...I've also seen companies who really needed people who could translate documents between German and English. (German and Chinese would be even better, but if it at least gets to English it becomes manageable...) George....well, ok.....thank you for taking my bait and reinforcing my point by demonstrating a detailed knowledge of Pidgin.
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Post by George61 on Aug 26, 2006 15:59:23 GMT 7
Someone has to keep you happy!!
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Post by Raoul Duke on Aug 26, 2006 16:00:52 GMT 7
Well, yeah, but that's what girls are for.
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