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Post by Raoul Duke on Aug 10, 2006 16:10:24 GMT 7
One of the biggest concerns for teachers here, especially those new to China, is knowing what constitutes a fair and reasonable salary/compensation package.
So please share your thoughts and experiences in this area with us!
MY PERSONAL GUIDELINES:
4000 RMB per month is the absolute rock-bottom minimum for jobs in universities and public schools. This number should be more like 6000 in the areas of Beijing or Shanghai or Guangzhou or Shenzhen. This is NOT a lot of money and should come with provided housing and a light schedule (~12 hours).
6000 RMB per month is the absolute rock-bottom minimum for jobs in private schools anywhere. In the big city areas listed above this should be more like 8000. This should come with housing or a housing allowance, and a schedule of no more than 20-25 hours a week.
NEVER, EVER take a full time job that doesn't come with a fully paid Z visa/residence permit/work permit. Never.
ANY full time job should allow for or provide housing, unless it's VERY well-paid...as in well over 10,000 per month.
ANY full time job should come with a travel allowance, unless it's at high pay as stated above. It should be high enough to at least sort of cover the price of an air ticket. It should be available to ALL teachers, whether coming in from abroad or already in China.
ANY full time job should come with adequate holiday, vacation, and sick time. Read carefully and make sure you're not paying for all your "days off" with extra work later.
NEVER pay any attention to claims that "the average local salary in Scumburg is only 1200 RMB a month." This is a distortion and is basically an attempt to take advantage of your ignorance. Most of us couldn't live tolerably on anything close to the "average local salary", nor could most of us handle living like the "average local person". Don't worry about what Zhou Baijiu the gate guard needs in order to live, or for that matter what the other foreign teachers are getting at the school...focus on what YOU need in order to live.
There is some basic truth to saying that working for too little boils down to simply excessively enriching a school owner at your expense. Be reasonable, but take claims of poverty with a big grain of salt.
DON'T forget that you probably aren't coming here just to work. You're coming here for some travel and adventure and fun in addition to the job. Get a salary that will let you do that.
In the "Jobs Available" area there is more on evaluating potential jobs. Check it out!
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Post by Dr. Gonzo on Aug 11, 2006 6:25:51 GMT 7
On my first tour of duty [97-98], coming with a government aid group which covered all flights, medical, relocation allowances etc, my only concern was that the "stipend" [that was actually the standard FT salary for that school at that time], would see me through. I just threw the [then] blue/grey notes in the drawer, and took out what I needed. Now, this was an 1800Y gig, but the stash of cash kept growing, and financed 4 weeks on the Silk Road, then two in Yangshuo and Behai, so it was clearly plenty.
Second tour, Shanghai 2002-4, I was much more salary conscious, aware that my formal teaching qualifications and experience were highly marketable. 10 K in Shanghai, with housing etc in 2002, was a reasonable deal, though I notice things haven't moved up since then. The othe trick with SH is there's some good side money around, so at one point I was bringing home 15,000 pm, but this involved a fair bit of travel, and I only ever did it once.
So there it is. From a Jack to a King. I must say the two years on 1800 were two of the best of my life. Come here for reasons other than money. You're here for a good time, not a long time.
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Post by Meihou Wang on Aug 13, 2006 11:52:28 GMT 7
One of the biggest concerns for teachers here, especially those new to China, is knowing what constitutes a fair and reasonable salary/compensation package. So please share your thoughts and experiences in this area with us! MY PERSONAL GUIDELINES:NEVER, EVER take a full time job that doesn't come with a fully paid Z visa/residence permit/work permit. Never. Does the near-ubiquitous line, "Let's switch your F Visa into a Z Visa when you get here," qualify?
*~Meihou Wang~* |
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Post by Raoul Duke on Aug 15, 2006 1:34:47 GMT 7
Better to come with the Z in hand, but this usually works. If they don't get your Z/residence permit started toot sweet, be prepared to walk away.
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Post by con's fly is open on Aug 17, 2006 6:27:27 GMT 7
I'm tempted to cut and paste Mark's post from the other room in here: it lays out things pretty close to the way I see them.
It is difficult to make cut-and-dried market value figures, but here's my stab:
I made 4,000Y a month my first year. I also had a free (but small and a tad grubby) room, and 2 free meals a day. Apart from toiletries, there was nothing I really HAD TO pay for. The shopping was cheap, but I ran out of things to buy. I ate out a lot, and ordered coffee freely, and drank more than I do back home, but still the red flags piled up. In the end I spent the stuff travelling.
Since then the school's sweetened the pot to 5,000Y, but still had a devil of a time filling the job. There's a lesson there about relative demand for big city gigs and lifestyles.
In a land of 3 kwai beer (half that in the towns), the cost of living is miniscule. To blow all your dough, you have to travel, drink heavily in laowai bars, buy big ticket items, or send a lot home.
I'll stand by Raoul's 4K/6K standard (plus free accomodation) for a rookie. And that shouldn't exceed 20 hours a week, unless the money's that much sweeter.
I don't think one can give hard numbers for the second or subsequent years- depends too much on your qualifications.
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Post by Secret Agent Jane on Sept 5, 2006 19:55:38 GMT 7
I'm in my first year of teaching and came here knowing I wasn't getting a great salary, but thought the experience would be worth it--and allow me to move on to higher paying jobs in the following years.
I get 4300 RMB a month, plus extra for over time (anything over 21 hours). However, we're short two teachers and I'm working something like 28+ hours--hardly the relaxing tour of China I was looking for. Not that I'm complaining-- we get a nice apartment/utilities and our visa paid for reimbursed for our plane ticket after fulfillment of our contract. And with two of us (my boyfriend and I came together), we're getting along famously--lots of RMB left over.
BUT. I didn't bargain on the tempting positions available just around the block from the private school where I'm teaching. Stay the course, Pirate, stay the course...
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Post by Raoul Duke on Sept 5, 2006 20:32:44 GMT 7
Personally, I think there are times when moving on simply must be done. It helps if you have the means to get out gracefully, such as a long notice/grace period.
If, for example, you're making 4K a month and see an opportunity to do better work for 10K a month, it might be noble to hang in there for a year missing 6K a month. But how wise is it?
Another perspective: If a school was paying you 10K a month and they had an opportunity to hire an equally-qualified FT into your job at 4K a month, how long do you suppose it would take them to frog-march you and your suitcase to the train station? Breaking contracts for a better deal is just the Chinese way of doing business, kids, like it or not...
I think we have the right to draw the line between being honest and just being goofy. If you have a shot at a dramatically better opportunity (as in not just jumping at every slight rise you can find...), you have to strongly consider taking it.
If your old school really is decent, you might consider discussing a firm job offer with them. Who knows, they might even sweeten your deal a bit, enough to make the difference less dramatic.
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Post by Justashooter on Oct 6, 2006 0:09:21 GMT 7
you all have my sympathy. i wouldn't be here for less than $10K a month.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Oct 6, 2006 3:30:54 GMT 7
Me too, personally, but I would be careful expressing that sentiment around here. I've known many people who've lived here very, very happily on much less than 10K, and they will take exception to being offered your completely unnecessary sympathy. It's a different set of priorities, not some kind of misfortune.
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Post by Dr. Gonzo on Oct 6, 2006 4:06:46 GMT 7
Absolutely.
Anyone who comes teaching in China with $$ as a priority [International schools aside] must be coming off a pretty low base rate at home.
The other point is that often, to pull a high local salary, you need to be working outrageous hours, which defeats the purpose of moving halfway round the world.
PS Raoul, I think Justashooter is talking USD, not RMB. He's not a teacher.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Oct 6, 2006 11:26:28 GMT 7
I know, and I guess either is possible...but it doesn't really matter. The point remains the same.
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Post by Ms. Tingbudong on Oct 30, 2006 19:52:11 GMT 7
I have a quick question for y'all...... How do you ensure that you are compensated for airfares, medical etc... and receive your contract completion bonuses?? We all know it's included in the contacts but who ensures that it paid??? Do you just trust that the school will pay you before you are due to leave the country?  I'm asking because this is my first China adventure and I've started to notice something at my school that's making me a little nervous in regards to the bonuses, compensation etc. As other foreign teachers have been nearing the completion of their contracts the school has been finding lame reasons to weasel out of paying the completion bonuses, airfares and even in a few cases fine or charge teachers extra $$$. I'm really just curious as to what kind of action one takes if they find themselves in such a situation. Who do we go to for assistance etc??? (just trying prepare myself for the worst ) |
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Post by Raoul Duke on Oct 31, 2006 0:22:46 GMT 7
Good job...you SHOULD be preparing for the worst.
Admittedly, a lot of it comes down to prayer. Sometimes teachers do indeed get gypped out of these end-of contract items, and there just isn't much you can do about it when that happens other than go online and warn others.
Good research before taking a job can help. Find some foreign teachers who've worked there before and find out if they had or heard of any any trouble with these items. If the school can't produce any references and it isn't brand new, you might want to consider not going there.
Tough negotiation can help too. Sometimes you can negotiate getting these things just before the end of the term rather than just after.
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Non-Dave
Barfly
Try Not! Do - or Do Not... There Is No Try!
Posts: 701
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Post by Non-Dave on Oct 31, 2006 6:43:15 GMT 7
Ditto what Raoul said.
Make sure you've complied with your end of the contract scrupulously. Contract violations seem to be the most common justification for screwing people out of their benefits (and not ALWAYS without reason!)
Theoretically thre is a government department (SAFEA - State Admisitration of Foreign Expert Affairs) that mediates in situations of dispute between schools and teachers - but I don't know anyone who's gone this route.
Get half your airfare reimbursement after half of your contract is up (if you can) and make sure they know you'll pack ypour bags and leave them in the lurch, voicing loud denunciations to the press and the parents if they try anything funny.
Pray.
Collect dirt on the FAO.
Expect the best (so you don'y go nuts) and do the scout thing - be prepared!
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