And it just goes on and on like this.

[ChinaGurl]

Generally I get to a point in recruiting where I have to tell the person that, due to their country of origin, it may be necessary for me to conduct a telephone interview. Usually I say it all nice and politically-correct like... something like this:

As you may be aware, many schools prefer that their foreign teachers have one of the following English accents: Canadian, American, British, Australian or New Zealand. As such, it may be necessary for me to conduct a telephone interview with you to ensure that your Cameroonian accent isn’t overpowering. Just as it’s important for the students to be exposed to a wide range of natural English sounds, it’s also important for them to be able to understand what their foreign teacher is saying! And, in many cases, it will be the students’ first contact with a foreigner of any sort.

I don't think it's unreasonable.

This happened to me today: I was e-mailing back and forth with a candidate all evening. Yes, I was in fact home on a Friday night. I asked for his resume, some personal type questions, a photo. Finally, I was at the point where I have everything I need to present to the school, and I sent him afore-quoted e-mail. He e-mailed me back right away, and said,

Thanks for your prompt reply.

I think my accent is okay because we are taught American/British English from elementary to University level.

To which I responded, "Do you have 5 minutes free right now? I could give you a call and we can chat."

To which I received no response. After half an hour of e-mailing back and forth. No response. Nothing. Nada.

Does he really think his accent is ok? Or did he have a heart attack, sitting there in front of his computer?

Until then he was a viable candidate. Now, I'm not so sure.

I called another candidate this afternoon to have a chat with him. He said he couldn't talk because he couldn't hear me on his mobile, and he'd call me back in 20 minutes. That was hours ago.

I almost think that these people know their English isn't very good, and they're hoping the Chinese just won't notice. Then, along comes this Canadian girl representing the schools in their recruiting, and suddenly they're not so sure of themselves.

Here are some recruiting statistics, for anyone who's interested.

Of 52 candidates:

• 2 are American
  
• 1 is Asian American
  
• 1 listed Arabic (is that a Nationality?)
  
• 2 are British
  
• 7 are Cameroonian
  
• 4 are Canadian (2 from French speaking Canada)
  
• 1 is Chinese born Canadian (Canadian passport)
  
• 5 are Filipino
  
• 4 are Ghanian
  
• 3 are Indian
  
• 1 is Moroccan
  
• 2 are Nigerian
  
• 1 is Romanian
  
• 1 is "Scottish/Cameroonian" (Cameroonian passport, but my mom is from Scotland, REALLY!)
  
• 1 is South African
  
• 1 is Uzbekistani
  
• 14 have elected not to tell me their nationalities
  

I don't think it's unreasonable to conduct a telephone interview. After all, back in the real world, we're expected to attend interviews *gasp!* IN PERSON.

[burlives]

ChinaGurl said:

Generally I get to a point in recruiting where I have to tell the person that...

As you may be aware, many schools prefer...

I don't think it's unreasonable.

It's probably not. It is however a big m'kay you. As I suppose it should be. You're the gate keeper and you're showing them the gate.

Incidentally, do you agree to the accent policy? That is to say, do you expect that the kind of teaching required of the candidate will include formation of an accent? (I'm just curious because I'm a college teacher and accents are generally the last thing I have an influence on.)

Ummm, also... do you have the relevant human resources qualifications or experience that would justify the kind of assessments you want to make of the candidates? (Also not intending any attack here. I'm still just curious)

[Raoul Duke]

Personally, if a candidate won't agree to talk to me on the phone, I would take it as a signal to avoid that person like the plague regardless of whatever reason they may have. A real-time interview is more than reasonable for any job anywhere.

I also teach college-age students. Our school inexplicably has an English teacher who is a heavily-accented Belgian person. I can always tell when my Business students have come from his class because zair Eeengleesh, it has zees ceirtain.....je ne sais quois. It takes them hours to get back to normal.

HR quals to be able to recognize bad English?!?

[Gonzo Journalist]

Buttinsky here.
I do a spot of recruiting for my masters. Why? I'd rather have competent, sane colleagues than some of the flotsam who come to China because nowhere else will have them.
So when I advertise for a native speaking, degreed person from one of the big 5, and I'll throw in Ireland and RSA to make it 7, I'm open to offers from anyone, provided they're willing to talk to me. Convincing my boss is something else. They don't want blacks, browns, ABCs, BBCs, women over 40 [bad experience with one], single men under 30 [bad experience with several]. So China Gurl gets a vote of confidence from me.
And yes, a uni. qual. for everything I can do properly? I'd still be there 35 years on. Now THAT would be living!

[burlives]

The qualification question is a default way of knowing the candidate, uh, recruiter can develop an appropriate set of recruitment terms. As you would all know, being recruited is different from being the right person for the job.

(Also being a little sly once again. If the recruiter got her recruiting job through happenstance, guanxi or pressure, what standard of employment should be applied to the recruited? An interesting conundruum for all of us wankers here in high quality qualification and helping-out land.)

Accents.

Recently I've had the experience of hearing longer, flatter vowels from my charges but they come and go, and most often stay gone. We'll see after some more time. I already know that it's possible to teach accents but I kind of believe in teaching the ways of standardising whatever is one's own accent -- give them the theory and make them do it, modelling only were really necessary, and after a while the class starts correcting each other.

But I've seen 250 to 300 new students each semester for a few years now and I think I only ever encountered one with any outstandingly non-Chinese accent, which seems like it should mean that there's not much outlandish accent work going on in middle schools. I've seen kids whose teachers were Scots, African, Pom, Australians, and Mid-West Americans.

Although it does sound right that if the teacher is teaching English and modelling it for the students, then some kind of standardised pronunciation is worth having.

[Gonzo Journalist]

Accents are so cute. Meet Raoul, and listen to his "There are three people in my family" monologue based on the students of a Glaswegian English speaker.
I've got a woman who's convinced I'm a Canuck, despite my pleas of innocence.
Why do they care about linguistic purity so much when they'll butcher the language anyway?
Just a filter I guess. More chance of a whitey that way.

[con's fly is open]

Fie upon such fatalism!

Yes, I can hear the decomposition in my students' elocution when they miss even one week of classes. Yes, I have to repeat voice exercises periodically to my students, and my Chinese colleagues too, to counteract a natural entropy that comes with a second language. Yes, the best English-speaking folks there have distinctly Chinese accents. And yes, when I leave here they will still sound Chinese.

But when I arrived here I met kids who had been parted from a foreigner teacher for over a year, and compared to other students of the same fluency, they still kicked ass at pronunciation, intonation and elocution, and still do.

Hybridized Chinglish consisting of an influence from the BIG 6 (let's just include the Micks already) is an entirely different category from picking up Hungarian-accented brogue. And perhaps, although I can't speak with authority, a Chinese accent is more desireable than a Chinese-Egyptian one: the former's defects are well-known to the next foreign teacher, as are the standard exercises to correct it.

I encounter at least three new people a week who took their English as far as they could, and hit a wall because they had no opportunity to encounter genuine, Real McCoy Yingyu. I have had a major impact on the English level of the people I talk to, and much as I'd like to rack it up to my genius, I know any garbageman from Wet Duck, Arkansas would, too.

[burlives]

One of my first friends in China was a capable, intelligent girl who confessed that after, like, eight years of study, she hadn't really believed she could speak until she found herself communicating regularly with me. (But then, she did like to make up plausible sounding stuff. She had me figured for her husband. Not that I knew what was going on.) Her perfectly intelligible CCTV style of running words together never changed in two years.

Speaking of. Just recently on Dialogue they had the Chinese F1 driver as a guest. Yang Rui didn't really know how to press his buttons because he looked just like a Chinese pop star but he talked like any other well-oiled sporting machine who's been coached by media guys for when he's on European tv. I guessed him to be Hong Kongish or Taiwanese even though he had a decidedly Germanic pronuciation.

And on and on, just like this. Linguistic purity is another one of those largely unattainable but easily tested goals that keep people out of whatever it is the Chinese are keeping people out of with their strange strangled education system. Fairly early on I decided it made more sense to allow accents so long as the spoken result was acceptable. (Plus I didn't know how to teach accents back then, so principle and practice nicely dovetailed.)

[Wolf]

My students insist that non-standard accents are more difficult for them to understand. Apparently, I'm far easier to understand than the Singaporian I replaced. Well, when I speak in Enlgish anyway.

I think that a telephone interview, or better yet a face-to-face interview, is an essential part of recruiting. If you want to teach English, then the school has a right to know your diction, grammar, spoken fluency, and yes accent. I know a few people (children) who have perfect Amercian accents. Seriously. But their grammer isn't quite up to par with, a well educated native speaker. I think that a telephone interview to test all aspects of the candidate's speaking ability is a good idea. It's also a great way to get a glimpse of his/her personality.

I'm currently looking for a new job. When a potential boss asks me to do something, I do it. If they want a telephone interview, I arrange it. If the want references, letters of recommendation, resumes or pictures, I send them. If they want to see a copy of my degree I've got it scanned and can send it. One place might want an offical copy of my transcrpits. No problem. I've got nothing to hide. The best candidates never do.

Chinagurl, how many positions do you need to fill?

[burlives]

Goldurn it. Not questioning telephone interviews here. I had one for a job in a richer city. It was from a guy based in Chicago of all things. I recognised all the questions: what are your goals, what is your best achievement this year, how do you think you can improve, and so on. Plainly a form. I followed advice I received long ago: use your head to work out what answer they want and give your version of that. Finally he complimented me on the clarity of my speech.

If I'm questioning anything, which I'm not, maybe, it is the assessment of the outcomes of a telephone interview. How are they assessed: either "Oh yeah, I getcha, nice clear speech, welcome to your new nightmare" or, what?

It's China Idol, call me Si.

But seriously, what are the idealistic and the realistic goals when recruiting for our schools to employ?

Saying, I'm just trying to help the kids, is, by itself, a washed out justification after all the talk we have variously engaged in about corruption, grade fixing, job opportunities, hilarious local teachers, and so on. Some extra, more robust thing is needed, isn't it?

(But I may just be being a little extra pungent for the sake of it.)

[Steiner]

Burl, I think Chinagurl's perfectly justified in requesting a telephone interview. I can only echo the others' sentiments about the practice. In fact, a telephone interview shows a higher degree of professionalism on the recruiter's part. I think you just need to back off now. Stop dissing telephone interviews.

[Wolf]

In an interview I imagine a recriuter good at her job would assess the candidate in many ways.

Does the person use English well enough to teach it?
How are his/her communication skills? Can they say what they mean?
What sort of personality does this person have?
Do the skills and background of the applicant best match the job?
Is the applicant possibly lying about something?
Will the applicant fit well into the programme we already have?
Is the applicant a flight risk? Will he or she adapt well to the local area?
Does the applicant understand the nature of the job? Details and all?
Does the appliant have any special skills that sets him or her apart from the others?
etc etc.

Note that both over the phone interviews and face to face interviews can serve this purpose.

[con's fly is open]

And Con's tired old song:
Anyone who's floating their resume is going to field a truckload of offers, and exhilaration at so many offers quickly segues into the horrible realization that there's no way to verify the credentials of a school on the other side of the world. The call shows that you're not just rubbing their rhubarb; and hearing another Westerner must be comforting. If you leave it to Chinese staff, their unintuitive speaking manner won't inspire as much confidence. You can give them the straight goods without coming off like an Amway salesman.

Anyone who won't take the call is either afraid to commit, or more worried that you'll catch them out than that you might not be legit.

[burlives]

Bingo! We have a winner.

Respectable and satisfactory reasons for a telephone or face-to-face interview. I like em. I'm proud to hear em.

Since recruiting is in the business of other people's opportunities...


Anyway, this topic seems to have hit one of my nerves somehow. I think, as banal and obvious as it may sound, the standards of our profession, hereabouts at least, are far more personal than is common for something we might routinely call a profession. The environment generates it, giving so little guidance and so much misdirection as it does.


Stopping now... rolling into the station.... slowing down.... ahhh... rant over.

[ChinaGurl]

Wolf said:

Does the person use English well enough to teach it?
How are his/her communication skills? Can they say what they mean?
What sort of personality does this person have?
Do the skills and background of the applicant best match the job?
Is the applicant possibly lying about something?
Will the applicant fit well into the programme we already have?
Is the applicant a flight risk? Will he or she adapt well to the local area?
Does the applicant understand the nature of the job? Details and all?
Does the appliant have any special skills that sets him or her apart from the others?
etc etc.

Well said, Wolf.

Add to that: Does the applicant use the phrase "Do you understand?" at the completion of each idea? Is the applicant forceful and pushy? Does the applicant say things like, "Canadians, British, Americans, they don't want to come to China right now, so you'll have to hire my people." Ok, so that was an example of an 'agent' that I ran into who wanted to call me every day, but still!

In addition, I'm assigning an actual exam practice question I came across that has only one "right" answer but all 4 answers fit, and asking applicants to explain how the other answers work.

These students are smart (in a manner of speaking). They ask smart questions. I don't want to insult them by bringing in someone who doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

Thanks also to everyone who agrees with me, and for the angles I didn't even think of. I'm worried that people might not fully trust me, because I'm not really sure how I ended up here myself. Anyway, I spoke for half an hour with a fellow Canuck today. The pay's too low for him here, but I got him in touch with a friend of mine in Taiyuan. So I'm not *just* a recruiter. I'm a good kid, too!

I got a phone call this morning at 4. "Hi, I'm Stanislaus, I sent you my resume and I wanted to know if the position has been filled."

Me, inside my sleepy little head: "What the?!"

Into the phone: "At this point it has."

*click* ... *strange Chinese dial tone*

I got another call at 5.

"Hi, I called a while ago, asking about the status of my application."

Me: "Well, are you IN China right now?"

Caller: "I'll be in China in 2 days."

Me: "Well, here in China, right now, it's 5 in the morning and I'm sleeping."

Caller: "Oh, I didn't realize it was 5am. So, what about my application?"

Me: "Well, you see, I'm in bed. And I'm not getting out of bed to look at anything right now because I'm sleeping. Maybe you'd like to call me back in a few hours when I've had a chance to finish sleeping and then drink some coffee." (verbatim.)

*click*

He called back, too. I couldn't believe it! I told him we didn't have anything for him since he's looking for something right away and we won't be able to pay him what he requested. He asked me to put it in writing, so I did.

The joys.

Wolf: I'm trying to fill 2 middle school positions in Linyi, Shanxi, 1-8 middle school positions in Yuncheng, anywhere from 2-7 university positions in Yuncheng, and potentially a primary school position in Yuncheng. THE PAY IS REALLY LOW, but you get to work with me! What could be better!

[Wolf]

That's one funny story Chinagurl.

Recruiters (if you don't mind the term) must have tons of stories of such strange people.

For those of you who would like a glimpse of what that's like; I've got a littel experiment for you.

Go to This site and download the newsletter's current issue. Save the file to your hard drive. Now open the file using MS Word (or whatever.) Scroll down to the ads teachers place. The "looking for work" ads. Note the spelling errors, ambiguous information, stylistic oddities, etc of the teachers that post there.

5 - 17 positions. That's quite a variation. Sorry, but I've already been headhunted. I was just wandering what you're up against, so to speak.

Canadians, British and Americans don't want to come here? Heh. There's a poop- load of our countrymen and women over here. Same with Amercians. And I personally can vouch for one whole British person. Yes, I'm going to believe that "agent" over what I've seen with my own eyes.