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Post by gretch on Dec 7, 2005 8:21:56 GMT 7
A couple of statements on a contract, I'm about to sign , and wondering if I should be concerned about them or if I'm just being nit-picky and paranoid, I've asked the school to explain them (I've also asked the other FT there what he thinks), but I wanted to get some opinions from you folks..... Workload:
Generally 16 face-to-face teaching periodsi50 minutes for each periodjmust be delivered to the students every weekDAnd usually there might be some periods of activities outside the classroom to be delivered to the studentsie.g. lecturesCEnglish cornersCetcDjD Party B must strictly fulfill his/her contract duties and the following is not allowed without permission of the Universityfs International Exchange Division
1.to do any other extra work not stipulated under contract.
2. to change class schedule
3.to go out for traveling or visiting during teaching time[
The parts in yellow are what is concerning me...Should I tell them I want the "Generally" part removed...Does this set me up for getting legally "stuck" w/ more hours for no pay? The second part about no traveling during teaching hours...what? how can I travel if I'm teaching?
Lastly, I've asked the FAO re: the extra activities clause, and he said (in email only, no appendix or anything) that it would only be 2-3 open lectures/ semester. Opinions?
Thanks! Gretch
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nolefan
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Post by nolefan on Dec 7, 2005 9:03:04 GMT 7
The first clause shows up in most contracts but it can be ammended if it makes you happy. Ask the FAO whether thos "lectures" are remunerated or not? Technically, they would constitute overtime since they put you over your 16 teaching periods. In all honesty, I don't see it as a big deal as long as it onlly happens once or twice a semester and not everyweek.
The other clause in normal. It ensures that you're not out travelling when you're supposed to be in the classroom.
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Post by Lotus Eater on Dec 7, 2005 9:06:24 GMT 7
Keep that email from the FAO and any other wones they send you explaining the duties and what they will do/not do. These emails can come in VERY useful later on. ;D Check with them that they don't mean during the teaching hours of the week - i.e. 8-6 each day. They could be setting it up that you are 'on call' so they can rapidly shift classes - that way they don't need to give you notice. But it could also just be dodgy English and they don't want you to take long trips when you are supposed to be teaching - just disappear for a few day as some FT's have done. Ask them to clarify 'generally' - but it can also mean that when classes are close to the end of semester you will have fewer. Mine start disappearing at the end of this week.
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Post by gretch on Dec 7, 2005 11:04:02 GMT 7
Well I just got this from the FAO in response to those questions: From Monday to Friday, of course you can not go out or travel since you have classes except the case that you ask for leaves. You can omit the generally but we cannot. But for sure you will be required to teach for 16 teaching hours per week. If you like, you are wanted to give one or two lectures one or two months.I am still confused, so I wrote back again...the whole "you may not go out" part makes me wonder if they are planning to have me on-call, as you mention, Lotus. That would NOT me too cool. As far as the lectures, not a biggie, and I will hold onto those emails they've sent re: those extra activities. So far the FAO seems pretty trustworthy and the lone FT there, if on the up-and-up, seems to corroborate things said by the FAO. And you can omit the generally but we can not? Where's my Chinglish dictionary? Any interpreters out there? Gretch
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Newbs
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Post by Newbs on Dec 7, 2005 11:58:36 GMT 7
Gretch, 16 hours per week is about 3 hours per day, a little less than half a day. So, what they are probably saying, re the no travelling, is that if you have a few spare hours, you can't go down the street and do a bit of shopping, say, not without permission at any rate.
To put it another way, they may just want a foreign face on campus, keeping up appearances, from 9 to 5, Monday to Friday. That has happened before.
Previously I've argued for something along these lines. "The FT is free to leave campus when (s)he does not have classes. As a matter of courtesy the FT will inform the FAO of his/her movements." Yeah, right, but it does save face.
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Post by Lotus Eater on Dec 7, 2005 12:44:26 GMT 7
Sounds reasonable Newbs. I don't have this in my contracts, but I come and go as I please anyway! Have you spoken to any other FT's at this place? What do they say?
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Post by joe on Dec 7, 2005 15:26:19 GMT 7
"Go out" and "travel" are Chinese-English.
The speaker/writer means "take a vacation," and is not talking about taking a walk or going shopping. Good luck with clarifying that, but it's probably worth trying.
The part about "usually there might be some periods..." is a fairly standard leeway device. It's an example of trying to write into a contract an expectation of the kind of last minute changes of plan that any Chinese takes to be normal in a vertically arranged social system. One way to get it turned into nothing is to follow Newbs' advice and begin negotiating the rate of pay for these overtime "usually/might"s.
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nolefan
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Post by nolefan on Dec 7, 2005 18:36:55 GMT 7
yeah... what joe said.
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Post by con's fly is open on Dec 7, 2005 19:47:46 GMT 7
16 classes a week is a nice load. From the way it's written, even that little clause they put in would be construed as overtime.
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gengrant
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Post by gengrant on Dec 7, 2005 20:47:06 GMT 7
16 hours per week teaching, but how many hours on campus each day? 8 to 5? I teach 20 hours a week, but I am only allowed to leave campus from 12 to 2 each day for lunch...so it could suck bigtime except that i have lots to keep me busy on campus...
sounds like they are just saying you can't leave campus w/out permission during the workday...you must be available for "planning periods" and for "student consultations" between classes. (I hide out in the computer lab)...
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Post by Mr Nobody on Dec 8, 2005 1:37:44 GMT 7
Yeah, what Joe said, and the others too.
usually, the extra bit is so they can get your face in at open days and things. Also, english corner once per week is included in your standard fee. that's all. The 16 is nice, and the low end of standard. It's what I get. Ask though, that any extras are paid overtime. Itls what I am doing next, since they are wanting me to teach more.
I agree with the others, nice standard contract, but as GG said, how many hours do you ahve to stay outside of teaching? THis was one of my major concerns. Some schools, mostly private or middle, want you to stay on premises. College and Uni, they allow you to go home, do waht you want.
Clarify it if you are worried, or ask the FT you are talking to.
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Post by gretch on Dec 8, 2005 1:59:47 GMT 7
Great! I'm off with my new questions, let you know what they say!
I would not have thought to ask if I have to stay on campus outside of my teaching hours. See, you guys do rock!!! (for all you older folks, that means "great" ;D...just kiddin')
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Post by Mr Nobody on Dec 8, 2005 2:11:11 GMT 7
Where I am from, rock means a big stone. When I was young, it was a tool, to be flaked appropriately into sharp things. Some clever people in the tribe learned how to attach the sharp stones to long sticks.
Just kidding. I am not as old as George.
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Post by con's fly is open on Dec 8, 2005 17:58:24 GMT 7
Gretch, don't sweat office hours. At first they're strict about them, but you can do whatever you want while you're there. You'll find you won't resent being there, plus if there's something you need to do, so long as you show the respect of asking permission, they should be gracious. And by the end of the year they won't really care: your presence at the school will e a well-known fact, and the point will be made.
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Post by gretch on Dec 9, 2005 2:09:24 GMT 7
Okay, the FAO hasn't replied, it's only been a couple days, but they usually respond quickly...but I did get an email from the FT there, that I've been emailing for some time now.....and he said he would call me if I wanted.....No biggie I'm sure.....I'm am just turning in a very suspicious person, I guess. We'll see.
Gretch
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Post by Mr Nobody on Dec 10, 2005 14:31:19 GMT 7
They are renewing my contract. I want to ask to be paid over the spring festival. What do you think of my chances, or any suggestions on approaches? I also want a year contract (not likely by scuttlebutt) and paid for overtime (a goer for sure apparently).
Info please will be appreciated, and will be followed by appropriate levels of celebration.
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Post by Lotus Eater on Dec 11, 2005 2:11:48 GMT 7
You've been with them for 6 months already? Signed up/or willing to sign up for nother 6-12 months? I think you could ask for Spring Festival pay. Suggest to them that you will be using a significant amount of time researching and preparing your new classes.
Why wouldn't you get a 12 month contract??
My deal was that I would be paid full pay for 12 months in lieu of travel allowance. (Their original offer was 1/3 pay over the breaks plus travel allowance - I did the maths and decided what I liked better). Try that on them - either travel allowance or holiday pay.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Dec 11, 2005 9:41:25 GMT 7
They don't give 12 month contracts, apparently. I figured it was for the money, but they also have a massive turnover of westerners. Only one contract per. Don't know why. Suspect it is because the ones that come don't go to the staff room and chat. I have to - no apt on campus, breaks too short to go home some days.
Thanks for both suggestions. I will do that thing. Their travel allowance, though, sucks. Only about 25oo for a full year.
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Post by con's fly is open on Dec 11, 2005 14:38:31 GMT 7
I'll bet the 6 month term was precisely so that they wouldn't have to pay for your vacation. Hope I'm just cynical.
The travel allowance doesn't rankle me like that NO VACATION PAY deal: the contracts I have seen have all provided meagre travel fare. Seperate from return airfare, of course.
Are you happy there? If they have turnover problems, they might be more generous to someone they think could stay longer, and have a stabilizing effect on the other laowai.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Dec 12, 2005 22:55:53 GMT 7
I am happy there. I like the place. Other Laowai want to stay, but aren't asked. Don't know why.
I don't think you are being cynical. I think they are being practical, knowing they don't rehire people.
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Crippler
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Post by Crippler on Jan 1, 2006 7:38:13 GMT 7
Just signed up for our third year with the same school. We get 60 days holidays plus the Chinese holidays as well. So in actual fact we get 2 months for Spring Festival, 2 months for summer vacation, 7 days at May Day, Autumn festival and National Day. And they pay us full rate every month. No travel allowance but we get a return airfare every year as well. I doubt there is another ticket like this one in China... And, they don't bother us about private lessons.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Jan 1, 2006 8:37:14 GMT 7
I think I have something like that coming up also. They are giving me a full year with all holidays, an airfare bonus, a travel bonus, and other stuff. Still working some details, but they don't want to lose me (smirk goes here)
They have given me less hours, but not more pay. Working on that.
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Post by con's fly is open on Jan 1, 2006 20:15:10 GMT 7
Our favourite couple fit that school like a glove. And their kids love them. Forgotten in the obsession with money, numbers of students, and other economic matters is the quiet feat of fitting in and making life easier for everyone around you- being a pillar of the community. Easier for some than others.
Glad your school's happy with you, Nobby. Remember, extra time is easily converted to extra money if you're so inclined: half of us pull a handy coin in teaching on the side (no me thus far, but I'm considering it).
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Post by Mr Nobody on Jan 2, 2006 0:55:07 GMT 7
won't do it on the side for two reasons.
One is "contract"
the other is, can't pay enough.
Anyway, money isn't the issue. I just wantah be freeeeee yeeeah oh yeeah, lalallalala.. stuff like that.
(referring to freelancing, ok?)
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