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Post by kcanuck on Sept 21, 2006 16:51:39 GMT 7
Speaking of my two hour writing class... I am trying to at least have some interesting things to do besides grammar points (yes, I know they are important). The students seem to enjoy group writing exercises where we begin the story together. For example, this week they contributed two famous men, a famous lady, an exotic location, an everyday kitchen item...and have had loads of fun adding to the story (Brad Pitt and Katharine Hepburn in Iraq with Jim Carrey and a fork). I would love to do more of this kind of creative work with them. Space and materials are limited, as mentioned on the other thread, just me and 35-40 kids crowded into a one blackboard room.
Any suggestions?
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Post by Dr. Gonzo on Sept 21, 2006 17:24:17 GMT 7
Noun group building is one of the most worthwhile things you can do with EFL/ESL learners. Its the building block stuff we native speakers take for granted, and can be turned into games and group exercises. Several years of "teaching grammar" have convinced me that's a waste of time, as such.
PM me an email address and I can send a powerpoint with exercises.
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Post by Becster79 on Sept 28, 2006 12:22:40 GMT 7
*Bumping this for another issue re writing* You guys doing writing here, I assume you will be doing extended pieces at some stage? How long is too long? My students are whingeing about the length they are required to write, on FAMILIAR topics to them! I know in the CET4 they are required to write about 300 or so words with some cues to help them. Okay, I am in the boonies but it's still the 2nd largest city in this province. Today I asked my students (2 hour class) to write a 400 word essay, choosing from the list I had on the board, basic topics like Describing your journey from your hometown to the college, how to make tomato and eggs Chinese style, laundering clothes by hand etc, but boy, it was like I'd started World War 3!! It's not tested or contributed to their final results in any way, but I will be marking them, giving them feedback etc. I told them what was expected of me at their age in college (2500-3000 words) and they didn't believe me! They will have lots and lots and lots of practice at writing at the 400 word level this semester, with 3 pieces of assessment starting 3 weeks after the holidays, staggered. Am I asking the world of them  ! |
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Post by Lotus Eater on Sept 28, 2006 13:17:44 GMT 7
I showed mine a typical Honours year thesis from Oz - they freaked - - it was 90 printed pages long with tables etc etc. But several of them copied it, and a couple have acknowledged it in their theses as a valuable insight into thesis writing. Had lunch with one of my students who had gone to Britian to study - he said the writing class was the best preparation he could have had for writing and working in a western style.
I usually ask for 3 printed pages.
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Post by Becster79 on Oct 1, 2006 18:19:16 GMT 7
*Another bump- really need some advice for some backwater students, 1st exam coming up for them!*
You guys doing writing here, I assume you will be doing extended pieces at some stage? How long is too long? My students are whingeing about the length they are required to write, on FAMILIAR topics to them! I know in the CET4 they are required to write about 300 or so words with some cues to help them. Okay, I am in the boonies but it's still the 2nd largest city in this province.
Today I asked my students (2 hour class) to write a 400 word essay, choosing from the list I had on the board, basic topics like Describing your journey from your hometown to the college, how to make tomato and eggs Chinese style, laundering clothes by hand etc, but boy, it was like I'd started World War 3!! It's not tested or contributed to their final results in any way, but I will be marking them, giving them feedback etc. I told them what was expected of me at their age in college (2500-3000 words) and they didn't believe me! They will have lots and lots and lots of practice at writing at the 400 word level this semester, with 3 pieces of assessment starting 3 weeks after the holidays, staggered.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Oct 1, 2006 18:48:07 GMT 7
Well, it is in their second language. We were writing in our first. But I keep telling people that students work much harder in the west and I am told that I am prejudiced. Chinese students work harder, everyone knows that.
I told my students I had one homework per week per subject, and they freaked. That was only high school! Uni, 1000 words min per week per subject just for tutes, let alone the assignments and lab reports and then add the mini-theses, one per subject per term and add the extra lab work for research assignments. Comes to one hour of work outside class for every hour in them.
I'd a laughed if I only had to work like Chinese students.
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Post by AMonk on Oct 1, 2006 20:10:48 GMT 7
When I taught at a small, private School, my Middle Graders (12-14 year olds) were expected to write 1 - 1 1/2 pages (sides) for an essay. About 5-7 paragraphs.
I also wanted 4 projects/papers a Year, with proper Bibliographical references (MLA), between 5-8 pages (typed @ 12 pt, double-spaced), not counting pix and sketches, with front and back covers.
My Seniors (14-17 year olds) had to give me 2-page (side) minimum for an essay, as well as around 1 hour per subject - I also taught History and Geography - per lesson for their homework.
And in College, I distinctly remember having to read 40 pages of text per night per subject, and put in around 2-3 hours of Prep for each hour of Lecture......don't even talk about the end-Semester Exam week times!!!!......4 Papers due at once....each one at least 10 pages, typed, double-spaced and referenced.
Was I hard on my students? Yes. But were they better able for Tertiary studies? You bet your A**!
Today, I help get teens and adults ready for GED (US alternative to High School diploma) exams. I tell them to write a "Page (side) to a page-and-a-half. At least 5 paragraphs. And remember the 4 P's: Plan, Paragraph, keep it Personally relevant, Proofread".
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Post by Mr Nobody on Oct 1, 2006 20:24:43 GMT 7
Well, proofreading doesn't seem to get done here. Paragraphing is a chore and after a year they are finally learning it, sort of. They have the intro/body/conclusion things mostly sorted.
References? Not a chance. And this is a business college, one of the better ones in the city.
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Post by AMonk on Oct 1, 2006 20:37:45 GMT 7
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Post by Mr Nobody on Oct 2, 2006 7:12:00 GMT 7
Of course.
They actually have a problem understanding what it is. Confucianist teaching meant to memorize and copy mindlessly the words of the great. That was the way for 2000 years, and even Mao couldn't change it, although he tried. The inertia of the "educated" and the system prevented it.
Plus, since Chinese 'co-operate' they have trouble understanding why they can't hand in work they did together but what are in effect copies of each other's work. They do know why westerners hate it, but cheating doesn't even have the guilt thing we do.
For example, in the latest speech competition, I found out the extemporaneous topics had been given out the day before, because there were going to be officials from another school there and didn't want to lose face. This was confessed to me shamelessly (I was a judge) as if it was a perfectly valid reason for cheating - and this was from the organizers!
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Post by Becster79 on Oct 2, 2006 7:31:48 GMT 7
Thanks AMonk....references?? As in, you want research papers in high schools here??  I have a really hard time just getting them to PROOFREAD their work, and this is COLLEGE level! I have never even attempted to try a research essay with them, as in taking the info away, researching on the internet, library etc and bring back their final piece of work. All they're doing is writing on a topic they are familiar with, NO research needed. I've now said several times to remember this is the BOONIES, the chances of them heading overseas are ziltch (but I still believe in them), maybe will head to a large city..... But is 400 words too much???Yes or no??!! |
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Post by Mr Nobody on Oct 2, 2006 8:04:40 GMT 7
I do it in pages. My students do about 2-3 pages. I think that is about 3-400 words at a guess, depending on who is writing.
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Post by Hamish on Oct 2, 2006 8:08:48 GMT 7
No.
Unless you are going to read it.
Then it is.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Oct 2, 2006 9:21:34 GMT 7
I am currently marking the last 50 homework assignments. It is so depressing. I gave a class dedicated to structure, alternatives to starting sentences with conjunctions and sentence structure, and paragraphing including an exercise. I did this the day before I gave them the homework, to minimize forgetfulness. I told them I would mark on this principle. I give this class maybe once a term every term.
They still use conjunctions to start sentences, but I mostly have the rest beat. Sigh.
At least the English is mostly OK. I can understand them at least. A year ago I couldn't.
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Plagiarism is rife, then, Innit? 
