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Post by solongtinik on Nov 12, 2006 11:58:41 GMT 7
i hate poverty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i dont even know how to express how i felt yesterday... it was damn cold..i mean really cold up here...
just outside a supermarket was an old man who could barely walk tigh just his blazer as his clothing...he was a having a runny nose (sticky) and he was reaching out for someone...
i was hungry then but suddenly i lost the appetite...oh man! this scenario really broke me...
how can this feckin gov't be so feckin proud about the helpi the're reachin out to africa when their countrymen is suffering too?!?!?!?!?!
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Post by Raoul Duke on Nov 12, 2006 12:15:02 GMT 7
Yeah. Stuff like this is hard to see. Indeed a heartbreaker. Some of the beggars/street people/assorted flotsam of Chinese streets are just crooks and/or idiots. But some of them are really and truly desperate and it does tear the heart...
The best I can say is to compare China to places like India. There are countries in this region where millions are starving, homeless, afflicted with easily-treatable diseases... It is at least better than that here. And it hasn't always been so.
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Eagle's Nest
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Post by Eagle's Nest on Nov 12, 2006 18:43:07 GMT 7
My students have told me that some of the beggars are actually fairly rich as they get a lot of money with their scams and don't have to pay taxes ... a lifestyle choice where hoarding is the objective. Maybe something to this when they have gone through some tough sh*t in the past. Better to look and act like a beggar and safeguard your assets.
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Post by AMonk on Nov 12, 2006 20:47:18 GMT 7
There are beggars everywhere......some by choice, some not. I do not give $$ when asked, but I will take the person into a restaurant or grocery and pay for Food. If they insist on ca$h, I walk away.
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Post by Lotus Eater on Nov 12, 2006 21:09:16 GMT 7
I save my coins and when I have enough I will give them to the beggars. But I NEVER give to child beggars - I am not going to encourage children to live this sort of life. I also get really worried about the beggars with very young babies and little children - my children at the same age would have been incredibly restless, wanting to be taken for a walk, played with etc. So for me these little ones must be drugged to spend all day so quietly in their parents arms. Another group who do NOT get my money!
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Escaped Lunatic
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Post by Escaped Lunatic on Nov 12, 2006 22:38:54 GMT 7
I often have mixed feelings about beggars. I've seen too many exposes on the guys in USania who hold up cardboard signs saying "Homeless, will work for food" and the newscrew follows them back to their very nice house.
I gave a couple of bucks to a very nice, well spoken young man in Tampa once who had a story about how his luggage got diverted etc. The moment I handed over the mere $2 he said he needed, the story expanded to include other needs.
In Rome, a frail old woman approached me with her palm out. Her other had was attempting to slip into my front pocket, and I don't think it was a friendly gesture (especially since I had about 100 Euros in that pocket). I sidestepped while looking straight at her roving hand and she said some very interesting things to me in Italian (of which I speak perhaps 8, maybe 10 words) before stalking off. If she'd gone for the other pocket that contained nothing valuable, I was going to let her get her hand in and then walk off and see how she'd manage to extricate herself. On the other hand, I didn't mind giving a few coins to a beggar who let me pet the cute puppy she was carrying. If nothing else, she'd keep the dog in good shape to use as a lure for more money.
In Key West, there are some absolutely worthless pieces of human wreckage along Monroe Street (aka Party Central) who just demand money as one walks by and yell curses if you say no or ignore them.
I want to help those who need it, but it galls me to think I might be supporting a scam artist. I try to give in other ways. I always bring a big bag of stuff when there's a canned food drive at work and donate food and a few items to the local homeless shelter. I checked out the shelter's website, and they mentioned they sometimes need donated time from lawyers for various issues, so I'll help them that way once I get the law degree.
Are there any sort of charitible organizations within China where one can give food/money/etc and have a reasonable chance that it will mostly go to those who need it?
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Post by Raoul Duke on Nov 12, 2006 23:53:21 GMT 7
Are there any sort of charitible organizations within China where one can give food/money/etc and have a reasonable chance that it will mostly go to those who need it? No, not really. Not too many to begin with, and none that we can tell from the other kind.
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Post by hankuh on Nov 13, 2006 1:21:23 GMT 7
Anyone remember "Project Hope"?
I don't know if it's still in existence, but I seem to remember there was a big stink awhile back about how this program was not working in China and its funds were being pilfered by authorities. I think it was supposed to provide funding for disadvantaged youth to attend school. They were soliciting donations from foreign organizations, but not really showing any accountability. I think I read it in a news release, so my memory is a little off on the exact details. Don't hold me to accuracy on this.
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Post by mich on Nov 13, 2006 7:17:05 GMT 7
this sounds cruel, but I don't give money to beggars.
I've done it twice, once in Beijing to a young girl, next thing I knew. I had kids everywhere and couldn't get into a taxi. They held the doors open and wouldn't leave. Finally the taxi driver yelled something and they moved.
The other time while I was having a coffee and cigarette in chengdu. I gave a kid 10RMB for a newspaper that was two weeks old and I couldn't read it. Next thing I knew, he came back with his mate, and sat there harrassing me for the next 20 minutes. First for more money, when I said, 'no'. He tried to take my cigarettes!!!
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Escaped Lunatic
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Civet Burger? Sounds tempting. Can I get fries with that?
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Post by Escaped Lunatic on Nov 13, 2006 8:11:13 GMT 7
>when I said, 'no'. He tried to take my cigarettes!!! I don't smoke, but think I might keep a pack of LungBusters (TM, Pat. Pending) in my pocket for those beggars who take tobacco in lieu of cash. Once they try one of those specially prepared blends, they'll probably stop smoking forever. I like to think of it as my small contribution to improving their health. “Sometimes the truth hurts. And sometimes it feels real good.” - Henry Rollins
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Ruth
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God's provisions are strategically placed along the path of your obedience.
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Post by Ruth on Nov 13, 2006 8:27:40 GMT 7
Tough call on beggars. Solongtinik, you are so right that sometimes it is just heartbreaking. Sometimes I walk right on by, pretending not to see. Sometimes I give cash. Sometimes I'll go and buy food and take it back to the person.
As I'm sorting and packing I've found some clothes that I really don't want any more. What to do with them? At home I'd just take them to Goodwill or some other organization like that. I asked my friend about something like that locally. No. But, apparently there is a bureau of something or other that is supposed to help poor people. She thinks maybe I can take stuff there.
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Post by Dajiang on Nov 13, 2006 8:36:46 GMT 7
Hmm, yeah i'm sorry to say i dont give any money to beggars either. it's a pretty bad situation they are in i mean, but theyve got to get themselves out really. i know some folks dont have that option, and if they had a choice they'd take it, but lots of folks are too lazy, or dumb to take those chances that they have. and that doesnt deserve charity.
in my humble opinion, basically its not our responsibility to 'help' these people by giving them money. in fact the responsible thing to do is not give them money, since you'd be supporting them in what they do, which is begging. how can i help a person sustain this way of life? id rather not.
in the end its the government's responsibility to provide a social net that can help people like that. if they dont do that then fine, its not my problem, im not gonna revolt, but those people could.
its a tough world, and beggars know that better than anyone. im just saying, if it were me lying these on the streets, i know a few things: 1) a couple of things have gone terribly wrong, and 2) i know where to go to to get my act together. Of course, where i come from there is a social system that works quite well. for people that really want, there is a way out. Im well aware that there is no such thing in China, but there are always choices to make. there is always work somewhere, and if you just think and act, i think you could break the spell. if that means breaking rocks in road construction, then so be it, lots of people make a living that way. when you got no limbs that is rather more difficult obviously, and if there isnt any family to take care of you, that does suck, but how did you lose those limbs then? any pension that the army/company turns out because of it? and what about the limbs that do work? some people do amazing things with very few limbs.
or am a a bit too liberal now?
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Post by con's fly is open on Nov 13, 2006 15:38:05 GMT 7
I've kept my eyes peeled for a reliable and worthy cause, wherein I don't get made as an ongoing source of free money; but I have yet to find one for certain. The best idea I have so far is to donate something to a public school, something that a crook couldn't haul away and sell. But what exactly?
The beggars in Suzhou are organized: the ones along Shiquan Jie all pay a percentage to some hoodlum in a nice car. I asked everyone: if he was suddenly retired by a sniper's bullet, would things get better, or worse? No one would hazard a forecast. There will be panhandling, after all, and there will be a structure to this industry like any other.
The hard fact is that the plight of the urban poor, and the working poor, will not improve in the foreseeable future. Chinese cities create jobs at an astonishing pace, but those jobs are snatched up just as quickly by folks moving into town to seek their fortune. Labour in China today is a buyer's market, and until people have enough choices that they can turn up their noses at poo jobs, the working stiffs will continue to sell themselves cheap.
And this truth extends up into the middle class: last year saw a 22 percent increase in post-sec grads, but a 22 percent drop in deman for them. Over 60 percent of the Class of '05 failed to find jobs that summer!
In the longterm, things will work out, but right now the labour force is moving sideways, and the focus is on job creation. Social programs? Given the 800 million poor, polluted, pissed-off farmers the government is feverishly reforming their policies towards, I think the urban downtrodden best not hold their breath.
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Post by solongtinik on Nov 13, 2006 15:39:54 GMT 7
a co teacher (chinese) told me they dont have that "social welfare" kind of thing in this country...
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Post by con's fly is open on Nov 13, 2006 15:47:24 GMT 7
They gutted them in the wake of the "Asian Flu" recession back in the 90's, along with millions of guv jobs. It got the economy rolling again, but they haven't been able to restore the funding thus far. It'll happen...ssslllooooowwwlllllyyyyyyy.
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Post by Lone Traveller on Nov 13, 2006 20:14:17 GMT 7
It is so heartbreaking - you're right. However, I confess to not giving to beggers either. I've seen so many times, the scams and con artists that I'm always skeptical of the person, which I hate because I'm the kind of person who likes to think the best of people. You can't give to all of them and the thought that I give to this person, (who turns out not to be genuine) and the person standing beside them was the genuine one, just boils my blood. L.T
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Post by Lotus Eater on Nov 13, 2006 20:27:09 GMT 7
The figures for the unemployement rate vary a bit - but the last official ones I heard were 14% and unoffical estimates are in the vicinity of 20%. This would be totally unacceptable in our countries - imagine the outcry. I drive past 'workers markets' to go to the new campus - hundreds of people crowd around a van or truck with an employer offering daily work, for a couple of them. There are at least 2 if not 3 of these 'markets' on my journey - and that is just one small part of one city. I don't think it is too easy to get a job if you are unskilled.
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Ruth
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God's provisions are strategically placed along the path of your obedience.
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Post by Ruth on Nov 15, 2006 8:08:21 GMT 7
A couple of times a year a red box appears in the office. It's for teachers to donate money. The money goes to students who need help with tuition and living expenses. We've given money for that. Trust it actually gets to the students because it seems to be a grassroots thing, rather than coming from the admin. A teacher we trust said a panel of teachers decides which students are the neediest.
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Post by acjade on Nov 15, 2006 8:15:34 GMT 7
There's also an Aussie woman ( God bless her cotton socks) who runs a street kids program in Bao ji. It's an Australian Volunteers Abroad organization that was originally funded by Doctors without Borders.
This woman looks after children from all over China including run away brides... children sold into sexual slavery. Great woman. Great work.
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Post by con's fly is open on Nov 16, 2006 20:36:55 GMT 7
That I could give to. Knowing a laowai in charge would be good truth insurance.
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Post by Missi on Nov 16, 2006 20:50:20 GMT 7
Every October my school has a clothes drive. You bring all your old clothes into the school and leave them at the gate. Then some workers come and take them away to people who need them. I get told my shirts/ jackets are wanted, but my pants are not. They are too long.
Makes you wonder, needle thread... hem job.
I collect all the old clothes from leaving foreigners and wait till October to hand them over.
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Ruth
SuperDuperMegaBarfly
God's provisions are strategically placed along the path of your obedience.
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Post by Ruth on Nov 17, 2006 5:59:55 GMT 7
Wish there was a deal like that here. I've got a winter coat and a few sweaters that aren't moving south with me.
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Post by Lotus Eater on Nov 17, 2006 6:18:19 GMT 7
I give my extra bits and pieces to my ayi - if she can't use them she passes them on to others who can. Her husband is out of work and she has 2 children so she is supporting the family, plus husband gives a chunk of her wages to his parents, so I figure at least I am helping someone who is a) trying to help herself, and b) needs it as well.
Also I find it amazing how quickly stuff gets recycled from the rubbish bin outside my apartment. I had a pile of stuff to take there (mostly cardboard and shoeboxes etc from teh rellies visit) and between the time I went down with the 1st load and straight back with the 2nd, the 1st had been gone through and anything useful was gone!
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Post by acjade on Nov 17, 2006 6:34:55 GMT 7
For anyone interested in the Bao ji project:
Margaret Ward 13319176472
49 Baoping Rd Baoji Shaanxi 721091 PRC
info@xinxingaid.org.cn
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Post by mich on Nov 17, 2006 7:27:09 GMT 7
There's no system here for used clothing.
I bought clothes back home for work here. I won't ever wear them again, so I'm not planning on taking them home with me.
I found a teacher who is my size and I've offered them to her. I've said, 'look, it's not charity, but I'm going to throw them away. I'll give you what I have when I leave, if you want them, keep them, if you don't want them, just throw them out. It doesn't bother me either way.'
she was really thankful and said, 'please don't throw away your clothes, they're beautiful. I will take them'
They're really not that fantastic. Trust me, or I'd be taking them home. But for some reason, whatever I wear here, people seem to think it's incredible. Guys seriously, they're plain blouses and slacks.
I've had this conversation with other foreigners and they say, 'it's because a foreigner is wearing them'
I'm still trying to determine whether it's politeness or the foreign factor.
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