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Post by Mr Nobody on Apr 23, 2005 8:42:55 GMT 7
Alright, sorry about this, stupid questions time. Much of this has been answered already, I know, but I am a little confused. I just want it nice and clearly stated in my head. Today I am feeling a little poo - a bear of little brain. Maybe my fellow citizens of the Land of Oz can tell me if there is anything different from other lands beyond the fields we know.
My understanding:
You need a letter of invitation from the school, to apply for a z visa.
You need a medical exam also for the z visa. When you get to China, you will have to have another medical anyway, since that is the only way your average Chinese doc can get Western experience, plus the kickbacks.
With a z visa you are permitted to fly to China on a one way ticket.
Only an idiot would go to China on anything except a z visa or a business (F?) visa.
A business visa needs no examination prior to leaving, but does need a letter of invitation. It can easily be changed to a z visa, while a tourist one cannot. Then I will have to do a medical exam.
Somewhere I read someone had to get all their docs stamped by the consulate. Does that include degrees, certs, med certs, or what?
I realize that all the above are variable due to TIFC, but is there a clear concept of what should be done?
Have I covered everything?
Also, what is the best way to acheive 'it', 'it' being, in this case not a frog or a worm, but being able to teach legally and safely in China with the least amount of pooting around and, of course, cost to me?
And after I achieve all that, I can take a left turn at the evening star and carry on 'til morning, east beyond the sun, west beyond the moon.
signed, Peter Pan. (Sorry, guys, I am feeling a little whimsical today. 6 references to kids fantasy books. But then, I am living in one fantasy land and moving to another.)
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woza17
SuperDuperBarfly! 
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Post by woza17 on Apr 23, 2005 10:03:18 GMT 7
Mr Nobody these are not stupid questions if you want too see really stupid questions go over to the spoon this guy KIA takes the cake, no, the whole dessert trolley.
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Post by burlives on Apr 23, 2005 10:52:56 GMT 7
My understanding: You need a letter of invitation from the school, to apply for a z visa. You need a medical exam also for the z visa. When you get to China, you will have to have another medical anyway, since that is the only way your average Chinese doc can get Western experience, plus the kickbacks. With a z visa you are permitted to fly to China on a one way ticket. Only an idiot would go to China on anything except a z visa or a business (F?) visa. A business visa needs no examination prior to leaving, but does need a letter of invitation. It can easily be changed to a z visa, while a tourist one cannot. Then I will have to do a medical exam. Their understanding: www.chinaembassy.org.au/eng/ls/default.htmRequires Internet Explorer to be viewed correctly. A Z visa obtained in Oz requires a visit or a posted passport to the appropriate Consular or Embassy office. Check out which because, for counter intuitive example, my being resident in South Australia meant I had to get my Z from Canberra -- Hello registered mail! My understanding, valid as of January 2005: You need a completed application form, one passport photo, an invitation letter issued by your prospective employer and a work permit issued by the appropriate China-local authority. Both the invitation and the permit will be sent to you prior to and for inclusion in your visa application. You also gotta pay some charges and fees. Non-Chinese medicals and stamped documents have never had anything to do with any of my z visas. If you're on a z visa, you get your medical once inside China. It's like a rite of passage. Insist on clean needles. Business and Tourist visas you can buy in Hong Kong, but it seems the loopholes are closing. There's issues of transferrablity given the new stick-in residence permit. What the issues are, I don't know. At a guess I'd say most people coming to work on summer programs are still doing so on Tourist visas. I'd guess there's still lots of people working on F visas. But I'm under the impression that the z visas and residence permits are becoming a tad more liberal. The laws seem to be changing, apparently toward a less slave-owning system, so it might be worth putting some faith in it. Doesn't stop bosses bad-mouthing you a red streak whenever you try to get a new job. That's another new thing I'm finding -- prospective employers openly soliciting opinion from previous employers. |
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Post by Raoul Duke on Apr 23, 2005 11:51:46 GMT 7
I had to get a medical document in the States before getting the Z. I think it was basically just a blood test. I didn't have to get my degree or other such docs stamped by anyone either. It's important to distinguish that in order to legally live here, rent an apartment, and draw a salary from a Chinese company, one must have a Z and quickly apply for a residence permit. An F will let you live in company-supplied approved housing (such as a hotel suite or guest house) and draw a salary from a foreign company. The reality is that a lot of people are living and renting and working here on F and even L (tourist) visas. I cannot recommend that anyone do this. As far as I know F visas do NOT require an invitation or a physical. They can be purchased in HK or Macao just like a tourist visa. The Chinese physical consists of a blood test, a chest x-ray, an EKG, a bunch of forms, and a quick peek at Mr. Happy if you are a guy. When they've safely removed the needle from the blood sample, I like to emit a blood-curdling scream. It scares the living poo out of the medical gargoyles who are performing the tests.  The exams can not be done by just any local doctor- they must be done at your area's designated Center for The Inspection of Livestock and Foreigners. The conversion thing is entirely subject to local laws and also to the influence of your employer or their FAO. Fs are easier, but a lot of FAOs can convert an L if need be...check with them. By the way, the rule of not being able to come on an L visa without a return ticket in hand seems to be old news. These days a lot of tourists come in and stay a while, then book their return ticket home while in China. Don't apologize for being confused about this stuff. Basically we're all confused...including the Chinese. |
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Post by Mr Nobody on Apr 23, 2005 14:43:04 GMT 7
Mr Nobody these are not stupid questions if you want too see really stupid questions go over to the spoon this guy KIA takes the cake, no, the whole dessert trolley. Believe it or not, it was kia who triggered this line of thought, or rather the people who were taking his/her vacuous line of chatter seriously. I thought i would ask some sensible people instead.  I don't need to know it for a month or two, but it was on my mind. (I thought kia was a girl, seriously. Writes like a girl, as in young and immature female; no offense is intended or implied to the refined and erudite writings of those posters on this wonderful site who happen to be of the non-male persuasion.) Thanks guys, I think I know what I should be doing now. I am still a couple of months away from departure. I am aiming at the beginning of June, but leaving myself up to an extra month if needed. I don't actually have to be there until the beginning of August, though. Leeway, leeway, leeway. I have some temp and part time jobs lined up with a couple of colleges in Nanning to feed myself while I wait for or organize a real contract, including some work during the hols in July/August. Enough to feed myself anyway. I am starting to look moderately seriously at jobs. Is there a period where the adverts for the new academic year jobs start turning up? I noticed some all year round, and a few starting now. I assume that schools aren't really any more organized than the rest of China and there will be a flurry of ads not too long before the season starts, which is sept 1 I think. Is this a valid assumption? Should I be looking hard now? Or wait until I get there? |
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Post by Raoul Duke on Apr 23, 2005 16:17:50 GMT 7
Actually, although the peak isn't here yet, quite a lot of schools are already recruiting for the fall. Keep yer eyes peeled...especially if you are only limiting your search to a specific region or want a better salary.
Maybe the ones that are a bit more organized might be better places to work?
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Post by Jollyjunklass on Apr 24, 2005 8:42:21 GMT 7
Raoul or any one with info, Do you know anything about the job scene in Kunming, or anywhere close to it? Have you known anyone who has worked there, maybe any good schools, bad schools? Hamish I noticed, you stated that, you had visited there, how did you find it? I have a problem, maybe I could get some advice from someone. It seems, a lot of the hiring is for the fall. I cannot get my actual diploma, in hand, until November. I currently have a stamped, I guess you could call it-little pinholes depicting University name and such (don't you be laughing now),letter stating that I have met the requirements for my degree and that I am eligible to graduate. I also have access to my transcript, if need be. What do you think about this, is it good enough or do I have to wait until November and then miss the hiring season. And if I have to wait until November, do you have any suggestions as to what I may be able to do over there, because I definitely don't want to wait until the following hiring season. Mr. Nobody, man I wish I could call yourself something else, for some reason I hate keying that in, so from now on it's N, okay? I would be grateful, if would could kinda give me a step by step, little journal like diary, on your progress and exactly how you are going about this whole scenerio.  Let me know if your willing to do that, thx. |
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Post by Mr Nobody on Apr 24, 2005 9:04:36 GMT 7
No worries, M! (I feel like james bond.)
I sort of have done this already through my posts here, and I really dont want to bore to the others with the minutae of my trials and tribulations at each stage, (no doubt having seen it before a thousand times). But I will try keep it up to date in short sharp bursts at random critical intervals, if no-one minds, through one of the threads i started on the subject. Maybe the one "feed me seymour"?
Most schools I have seen have a clause stating something like "degree or letter you have qualified for it but you must have been awarded the degree by the time you start work" or some such.
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Post by Jollyjunklass on Apr 24, 2005 9:42:12 GMT 7
Hi code name N. lol
Okay I will keep my eye on the thread, feed me seymour.
The whole degree thing could really suck for me, since I did finish these courses years ago, I just neglected to apply to graduate.
Oh well, I'll have to see what I can do I guess. Are they asking for your original copies, like will I have to ask the University, for say, 10 of these letters, how does that work, with diplomas and letters and such? Sorry if you've stated that elsewhere, I haven't checked out that thread yet. I will right now though.
Thanx
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Post by Mr Nobody on Apr 24, 2005 9:52:22 GMT 7
Sorry, not up to that stage yet. Still awaiting TEFL to finish before seriously applying for jobs. Just investigating right now, about to start serious looking momentarily.
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Post by burlives on Apr 24, 2005 12:39:37 GMT 7
The whiff of a degree will probably get you a job. Scan the "I met the requirements" letter and email it in lieu of a degree scan. It's a rare school that wants to see your actual documents -- although they may ask for it, they'll just as like forget about it when it's time to sign.
BUT... not having the degree in hand may be a stumbling block if you are after a particular school. It may be that you find a school you like and then they turn out to be sticklers for the details. In such a case, a verifiable letter wouldn't hurt. The key is having them send you an invitation and work permit. Once they've done that, they've cleared such local bureaucratic hurdles as require you to have had a degree.
As far as I know, anyway.
Kunming seems like one of those places everyone wants to work through, backpack in hand. It might be tough to break into. All I know about getting jobs is watch the internet.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Apr 24, 2005 13:44:42 GMT 7
Burl has again hit the nail on the head as usual, especially regarding Kunming. Kunming and much of Yunnan Province have 2 problems working against you:
1) It's reputed to be one of the most delightful places in China, and maybe the world, in terms of things like climate and interesting things to see and do.
2) It's mostly relatively poor and undeveloped, especially compared with East China. There is some wealth, to be sure, but it's relatively concentrated and the average standards of living and income are lower than in the East.
Put together, it means fewer jobs. What jobs there are don't pay very much. And even those jobs have huge swarms of foreigners fighting to get one of them. I do see ads for jobs in Kunming and elsewhere in Yunnan, but only very rarely.
That said, I just posted a once-in-a-lifetime job in Yunnan over in the Wankers section. Only professional-grade pianists need apply...
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Post by Jollyjunklass on Apr 24, 2005 21:15:44 GMT 7
Well that kinda sucks about Yunnan province, I was reading up on it and it sounded ideal. Are there any other suggestions, something similiar to that type of environment. Not like, way out in the sticks, preferably not too cold winters, and not in a large, commercialized city. Environment is more important to me than pay, however, I don't want to be poverty stricken.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Apr 24, 2005 21:40:28 GMT 7
Nothing else like Yunnan, I fear. It's idealness is part of what makes it hard to work there. Still, watch the job lists...you may get lucky.
I'm really partial to the Greater Shanghai area....Suzhou, Hangzhou, Wuxi, Ningbo, and so on. You do get some cold in the winters, but not like Canada. Weather here is perhaps a bit like South Carolina or Georgia in the States.
I also like DongBei (The Northeast), but you're definitely back in the deep freeze there.
Oh, Qingdao and Xiamen are nice, too.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Apr 25, 2005 12:18:26 GMT 7
Mr Nobody these are not stupid questions if you want too see really stupid questions go over to the spoon this guy KIA takes the cake, no, the whole dessert trolley. Although this isn't relevant or probably even interesting, the aforementioned KIA is now K.I.A. I gotta say, I agree. Banning I can understand, but every post, thread, and reference has been entirely removed. But I have never seen such a complete removal from a forum in my life. I am impressed. Unfavourably. Some of that was helpful advice by people who weren't kia, being read by people who weren't kia. |
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woza17
SuperDuperBarfly!
Posts: 2,203
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Post by woza17 on Apr 25, 2005 20:01:49 GMT 7
This person what a drop kick( I love to use these expressions to confuse the Americans and British) But another thing that pissed me off was that people knew he was a bloke but kept using the feminine article. To me that is derogatory, when you think someone is wrong and full knowing that they are either male or female and you persist to use the feminine article it can only be assumed that you are a cross dresser .
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Post by Mr Nobody on May 18, 2005 14:21:01 GMT 7
To whom it may concern:
OK, another stupid question, but I won't start a new thread for it:
Is there a best way to apply for jobs?
My options just got cut down a lot, and I can only apply to Nanning now due to personal reasons, I must do it soon and I must do it sure. If not, I can take a really crappy paying job with no conditions, but in a really nice place. At least I already have a flat to live in. I haven't applied for a job for around 20 years. I have always been invited or self employed. I did a couple of searches on this site, and found some useful advice, but nothing to help directly. Agencies no, direct yes. A list of sites. some advice as to what to include in cvs and what to avoid.
OK so, help guys! The TEFL cert is almost done, the rest of my life organized kind of, and now, all i need is the job/visa/permits etc.
Help this foolish Nobody. (I feel like an idiot - I am usually the one writing references for jobs. Now I find I know nothing about it.)
Thanking you in advance for your time.
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Post by Raoul Duke on May 18, 2005 22:44:14 GMT 7
Mr. N,
I'm not really sure what you are asking. I've given assessment-test interviews to most of the staff of a 5-star hotel over the last 36 hours and I now have oatmeal for brains.
How to send an application? How to find job openings in Nanning? What to say? What?
Mechanics of sending are like back home except, happily, e-mail is more accepted. Produce a lovely cover letter and resume (CV for the pommy types), adapt them to fit each job, and send 'em in.
To find jobs in a given town, I recommend using TESall. The address is in our woefully underused and underappreciated Links page, which has new links added fairly often. You can search a number of major job listing sites by keyword. Results are a little quirky- if you sort by date, newest listings are at the BACK!
What to say? Make the most of yourself. Kiss ass. Same as back home.
I'm sure I've missed the point here. He'p me!
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Post by Jollyjunklass on May 19, 2005 1:22:56 GMT 7
Raoul, That is an unfair assumption, I live off the links page and have got a ton of great stuff from there. I appreciate all the work and effort that was put into it 100% At this point I think I could write a links book on China. There is a lot of cool info. out there. But as I have stated earlier, it's easy to get lost in. And hard to know when to stop the search and start the footwork. I am now forcing myself to, find NO MORE LINKS and, start applying to the ones I have. I will tell you one thing, 2 months ago, I couldn't have told you poo about China, and now, with all yours and other precious links I have learned a great deal. So never underestimate the power of your links  Thanks for the work. And BTW, I love this spell check. I can't type worth a rat's ass. |
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Post by Dr. Gonzo on May 19, 2005 3:49:18 GMT 7
Chase up Guangxi Normal University in Nanning. They probably have a page on the www.chinatefl.com website. Last I saw their pay was OK for an inland province. Go direct to them, not via the agency. Now is a good time to apply. Assuming you're white and not a hippie, a photo is a plus. |
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Post by Mr Nobody on May 19, 2005 4:47:02 GMT 7
Damn. I am white, but a hippy. I am getting my hair cut though, it is just too damn hot for me to keep it. How do they feel about beards? Doesn't matter, it stays.
Seriously, though, I saw the uni, and I will also try the tesall thingy.
And the advice about what to write was also what I was looking for. I was going to experiment with different ways of writing things, but with so few choices i didn't want to make too many mistakes.
Sorry I was too obscure, Raoul, but basically what you said was what I was asking. I can't remember how I applied for jobs it was that long ago. I know about the internet application, but was, I guess, asking more about "what should I put in the cv?", such as: how should I lay it out, what kind of language (yeah, i know, Ingrish, but i mean, casual, formal etc) should it be in point form or should I write it up more fully, is there anything that typically should be left out (how far are the hookers away, what price the drugs) or anything that typically would positively influence them (being an atheist seems good, which I am, being a communist would also be , but I ain't) that kind of thing.
Nanning is a bit small to blow too many opportunities. I like the look of the uni, myself. But I hate the idea of blowing my one chance. (there are several colleges etc, but the only high schools advertising sound a bit suss, and I don't think I could hack the lower grades)
Another thing, I guess, is the process. Like send the stuff in, wait. Then what happens? How long is a usual wait, how aobut phone interviews, etc. Should I tell them I will be there in June? I was reading somebody's post that the interview is very long, like a few hours.
Thanks guys.
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Post by Jollyjunklass on May 20, 2005 22:19:33 GMT 7
I'm not sure if this is the right spot for this post but I found this while serfing the net. Beginning January 15, eligible Chinese tourists and business travelers will be able to get U.S. visas that are valid for 12 months and multiple entries, the State Department announced January 12 usinfo.state.gov/eap/Archive/2005/Jan/13-789324.html |
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woza17
SuperDuperBarfly!
Posts: 2,203
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Post by woza17 on May 21, 2005 6:37:33 GMT 7
I too am in the job market from September. I am still trying to make up my mind to go for the money or the box. My neighbour rang me last night and is going to take me around to all the schools in Dalian and find me a good job. I do like the personal touch and I am fortunate that I at the frontline. I do like Dalian and I think I can work out the social things in time. If anyone is interested and I am inudated with offers that I can't possibly fill, I will pass them on.
Cheers Woza
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I don't need to know it for a month or two, but it was on my mind.
Let me know if your willing to do that, thx. 