What's on the menu...

[burlives]

I mean Chinese are conservative. In many ways they're quite mean. It's one of those paradoxes, a generous thrift, a lot of not very much. To get the most out of the wide range of food in China you have to explore for yourself. The Chinese will know it all but they won't go out of their way to even say a word about it.

And then, at your first meal, they will sit you down and ask you what you want to eat. "Can you suggest something interesting," you will ask, and the conversation will stall. And then I guarantee you a banquet that includes corn kernels, sweet and sour chicken (a breaded chicken pieces dish rather like stale buns in tomato sauce), and cabbage in vinegar. Not because Chinese eat that crap, but because foreigners always do.

The best places for interesting food are the side streets near schools or factories or in villages or in the cramped places off the main roads. That's were the over-crowded, pushy Chinese culture of no private spaces is at its best.

Or you can be feted in the big restaurants. Depends on what you like.

[Raoul Duke]

What Burl mentioned about "what foreigners eat" is also one of the pitfalls of using English menus. English menus often seem to represent about 5% of the total menu, and will consist of the same dishes we all eat too often anyway. You'll see all these amazing-looking dishes floating past, but have no idea what they are or how to order them. In a Chinese restaurant, don't be shy about grabbing a waitress (), pointing to a dish on another table, and asking them to say the name slowly so you can write the pinyin.

In some places, especially the more touristed areas, items on the English menu sell at a considerably higher price than items on the regular menu. When I find myself in such a place (which isn't often) I love the black looks I get when I peruse the English menu they automatically bring me, then toss the m'kayer aside and order dinner in Chinese.

However, English menus can be endlessly entertaining. I consider such phrases as "Yellow Croaker with Black Fungus" or "Pig Intestine with Water Vegetable" to be direct threats to my well-being.

I heartily endorse Burl's assertion that the best food in China is found in the obscure little neighborhood dives, not the big marble halls with girls in qi pao out front. Go out and explore and get down wit de homeys. (However, it must be admitted that girls in qi pao are pretty damn magnetic...)

Finally, let me encourage you all to remember to contribute good dishes you encounter to the Food thread in the Library, which I am about to resurrect myself. It's one of the best services this forum can provide, IMHO, and can help rescue us all from eating gong bao ji ding 5 nights a week.

[ilunga]

Millana, I feel somebody should warn you about drinking games. You'll have to get used to shouting across the table just to get heard. Sometimes it's best just to forget conversation altogether and join the fun.

I created a new game last night - shuai ge/handsome (beats) chou ba guai/ugly as hell (beats/scares) xiao xi gai/child beggar (beats/gets money from) fa ren/rich guy (who obviously beats shaui ge hands down, especially in china)
I'm thinking of copyrighting it

As for food....summer is here so you have to check out the outdoor hotpot cum bbq and drink fresh beer. Make sure you order kao yan rou (grilled meat on sticks), kao nian yu (grilled catfish) and kao bin (grilled bread, a little spicy). All delicious. You could even try sheep eyeballs. You probably will at some point without realising it. They can be surprisingly tasty I've never been tempted to try baa baa's little love muscle though. Anyone braved it?

[woza17]

Dalian has to be the best place I have been for eating Chinese food. The main reason that a lot of the restaurants display the dishes so you can see what you are ordering. Dalian has all all these little take away food stalls with different kinds of filled bread. A real winner is this sort of yorkshire pudding thing filled with meat and an egg. I have never come across them before.
I like eating outside best, they don't seem to have too much of that here, maybe when the weather warms up.
Yesterday I ate at a small restaurant and asked the waitress if we could bring a table outside, no problem. Heaps of little dogs and a rabbit for Tommy to play/fight/ copulate with.

It still cracks me up when I given the Chinese menu by friends or students.
Bon appetit

[Jollyjunklass]

Yeah, I have read about the drinking games, however, they never state what the games are or how they are played. I doubt they're drinking games like Caps or Pass Out. Can someone give me a few examples of drinking games, and do older adults play these drinking games or is mostly a University thing.

I was worried about the food being a real issue for me, but it seems like you all enjoy the food quite a bit, it's more or less, an issue of finding the right things, and then expressing them appropriately. Am I right about this?

[Mr Nobody]

Yes, for me. But I eat almost anything. Finicky eaters really suffer. I like gourmet quality "twice cooked slimy and multi-legged creatures from the abyssal ooze served in a bug sauce with fried weeds". Some people starve on tourist trips.

However, it can be a real trying time and so much hard work trying to struggle with the language day after day to get what you want.

So maybe get some favourites, get the characters, and point at them and see if the restaurant has them, or try to match the characters with your list. I guess. Or print up the menu in the other food thread and take it along.

I usually do a Raoul and say "one of those that guy is having". Or have a friend who can read the squiggles. (I can usually tell what meat is in them if it is a standard meat, but that is all. I guess I will have to learn more.)

[Jollyjunklass]

How hard what it be Rauol, to scoop a menu, scan it, then post.
Maybe then you could post a sample in your thread so those who have never seen one could take a peek. Is this difficult to do?
Like a menu, with characters, I mean, or are most in pinyin?

[Raoul Duke]

Our good friend Nate has done exactly that. It's in the Food thread in the Library.

Almost all menus are in characters- you'll find English more often than you find pinyin. Pinyin is only used by foreigners and small schoolchildren...many adult Chinese can't even read it.

You see pinyin a lot on signs and buildings, but no one seems to know why. It never has tone marks and is therefore utterly useless. They also don't always separate the pinyin for each characters, so you see a lot of signs and labels that read "Zhuangchufangwangdangfungbixiongxiajiang".

I definitely agree with Woza's review of Dalian. The Northeast in general has some of the best food in China, but even there Dalian stands out. It is seafood heaven! Because of its history and geography, it also has some excellent Korean and Russian food.

Ilunga, you must live in a highly sheep-intensive area. Willie O'Mutton is a new one on me. I haven't even seen the eyeballs yet, although it's possible that my brain simply refuses to process this image.

[Lotus Eater]

Bull's penis is on sale in Xi'an and I assume sheep as well - but it, plus stinky doufu are things I haven't yet tried.

Drinking games are popular everywhere - not just universities. Laohu Ganzi - Tiger Stick is one played with chopsticks, hit together and one of 3 animals or stick is shouted at the same time as the chopsticks hit each other. Tiger beats chicken beats worm, worm beats tiger type thing. Loser gets to drink. Loser of 3 rounds in a row gets to ganbei (drain glass in one gulp). Others are games with numbers of fingers - there are heaps.

Food is great here. The little places, however grotty looking, are much more fun to eat at than the flash restuarants, and people will talk to you in them, and if you go back, you will be recognised (can never work out how) you can end up being adopted by them, and then they will suggest food you could like.

Just trust your stomach will reject all bugs and enjoy.

[Newbs]

The first time stinky dofu was on the menu at the school canteen I walked in, sat down and fair dinkum, I honestly thought that the lady I was sitting next to had stepped in some dog's doodoos outside.

[Mr Nobody]

I know what you mean. I have always wanted to try it, but so far, I have proved the coward.

Anyone?

[Jollyjunklass]

Okay, I got the menu, that's excellent. For us ditzier people maybe it needs a large sign: SAMPLE MENU BELOW. That menu is perfect to learn from.

Why does the pinyin exist then? Not sure how this works, how do you get a pinyin word out of their word, is it for us to figure out the pronunciation of the word, something like in our dictionaries. Ie. word (actual pronunciation)

Does it soley exist in order for us, to be able, to read it in our terms and then speak it to them. I'm not sure if I am making myself clear enough.

[Jollyjunklass]

Hey Raoul,

Why don't you take the food information out of this thread, or what ever else you may feel important, and get rid of this thread altogether. It wouldn't bother me one bit. I shouldn't have posted it as new thread. I didn't realize one had already started. I also know how important that food thread is to you over there. Just a thought, might make things easier with all the information -food..drink- in one area.

I also wouldn't mind discussing the types of sickeness that come along with new foods, etc...once you arrive, how long do these symptoms last.

Before you start teaching it would be nice to give yourself some leeway to get over whatever may come your way. I'm sure, in the beginning, certain generalizations can be made with regard to sickness.

Is it possible to move some posts, then delete this, if so, lets do it.

[Raoul Duke]

Actually I like this arrangement just fine. Discussion here, harder info (dish names) over there. The way it should be!

Don't worry...far more experienced hands than you make sillier gaffes than this all the time. ;-{)

You're right on about the pinyin...it was created to let us barbarians say Chinese words without having to learn all those characters. It makes learning to speak a lot easier. They also use it in the first year or two of Primary School to help the kiddies make the leap from speaking to reading.

Ugh, stinky tofu. I don't want to get close enough to it to find out if it's any good or not.

[Jollyjunklass]

K, that sounds good. I was beginning to feel guilty, wasn't sure if you were just trying to be nice about it. Although, I should know better.
Anyway, is it inevitable, the sickness. How long does it usually last, any wise hints to avoid it.
I can't believe you haven't tried tofu there, it seems like it's a staple there, I hear about often. I'm glad you have gotten away without eating it, because I don't wish to try it either.
I go to this Vietnamese grocery store here and see it all the time, sure doesn't look appealing to me. I was dreading it.
Also, how safe is the seafood there, I know, at times, we have problems with seafood here.
Raw meat, or meat not done well, what do you guys think about that, can it make you ill.

[Mr Nobody]

Millana said:

K, that sounds good. I was beginning to feel guilty, wasn't sure if you were just trying to be nice about it. Although, I should know better.
Anyway, is it inevitable, the sickness. How long does it usually last, any wise hints to avoid it.

Ok, no idea. I get one, two days, when I arrive, then later about one month another attack, somewhat worse. Not always, but regularly. perhaps one week.

i find the flu thing much worse.

Millana said:

I can't believe you haven't tried tofu there, it seems like it's a staple there, I hear about often. I'm glad you have gotten away without eating it, because I don't wish to try it either.
I go to this Vietnamese grocery store here and see it all the time, sure doesn't look appealing to me. I was dreading it.

Hey, not tofu, give us a break. We are talking about Stinky Tofu, tofu rotted to give a seriously pungent odour. Not tofu tofu, most of us think (guessing here) of it as a largely innocuous protein substitute.

Millana said:

Also, how safe is the seafood there, I know, at times, we have problems with seafood here.
Raw meat, or meat not done well, what do you guys think about that, can it make you ill.

Never eat raw flesh. Unhygienic.

[Lotus Eater]

Tofu - doufu - here comes in hundreds of forms, and 99.99% good to eat. Stinky doufu is supposed to taste like cheese, but .... just getting close enough to buy it is hard. Around here street vendors sell it in the evening. First time I came across it I thought a dog had died and no-one had removed the carcass.

The absolute sickest I have been here was after last summer when all of the foreign teachers came back from home bringing their favourite home foods. We spent maybe 2 days eating western food from all over - Russia, Spain, Germany, England, Italy etc. My stomach totally revolted and I ended up in hospital on a drip for 3 days.

This is the favourite form of treatment here - after hot water!

Other time I was sick here was when I was travelling in Inner Mongolia and didn't drink enough water. Not being superbright I then quit drinking the mare's milk concotions because I thought it was making me sick. Took me until a day later to figure out what was really wrong.

I eat what is put in front of me - including the seafood - and in general, touch wood, toss salt etc etc - whatever other lucky omens work here please - don't have problems.

If you eat super spicy food then there will be some interesting experiences as the food progresses it's way out of the system. But that is not a good enough reason not to eat the great food here.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Food varies greatly according to where you are. There are some national dishes though: steamed bread, steamed buns, noodles of different descriptions, dumplings boiled or fried, tea eggs. There are a lot of Chinese fast food joints with a range of choose and point dishes for around 4Y a plate. Snack sellers work all day and night; savory breads [yum], friitters with vegetable, kebabs, steamed sticky rice packets, sweet poatoes, fruit everywhere..
you'll never go hungry. Street food is great and so cheap.

ps Stinky dofu tastes like it smells. And I like stinky cheese too!

[Mr Nobody]

One of my favourite street foods I have only seen in HK so far. I may just not have noticed it on the mainland though.

It is just deep fried stuff. Stuffed chillis little dead fish and other marine things, various veges, and so on. All battered.

You make a selection of them, they fry them, you take them home and yummo. I could hear my arteries hardening as I ate, though. Sort of like a chinese fishnchips.

The one I used to go to was next to a stinky tofu place. Dead dog is a good description. Have you tried the stinky tofu condiment that goes with one of the mutton dishes? tastes like a dead dog smells. errrrr. Not a fan of that one.

But then, I like the street food of all kinds. Various balls, tentacled monstrosities, weird pancaky things with fillings, things on sticks, the list is endless. I love those sandpot style dishes too.

I am so hungry now. I will find something to eat.

Oh, the sickest I have been was viral dysentry, in HK. That truly sucks.

[Jollyjunklass]

N,

Are you claiming that you get sick at least once a month, that's quite often, is it the norm? How often do you get sick at home?

I thought, maybe, it was just a matter of building your immune system up to the differences in food and environment, is this not the case?

If not, what are the reasons for getting sick, just a general lack of sanitation all around, or the way the food is cook, or coming across flu strains you've never encountered before.

All the food sounds pretty good to me, I'n not that picky, however, I sure couldn't land myself an audition on Fear Factor. Not crazy over gooey crap, worried a bit about raw meat (or not cooked enough), and not a big seafood or mushroom fan; that's about it though. I am more or less worried about the things I might really miss. Cold drinks, milk, cheese, sour cream, ceasar salad - mostly dairy though. I'm a milk freak and am not crazy over warm drinks, I definitely couldn't stomach a warm beer. I've been to Greece and there was never any ice around, it kinda bugged me, but hey, it's not the end of the world.

Oh, by the way, I checked out the spoon, it might as be called the bullpen. What's up with those peeps, constantly pissed to the max, hope I don't run into a lot of those type on my journey, wayyyyyyyyy to negative and combative for my liking. They all need to take a chill pill and lighten up. I could be wrong, just took a quick glimpse, but, will take a closer look at it today.

[Jollyjunklass]

If George or Hamish are reading. No discriminationation intended, how do you guys feel about your health there. Do you get sick often? I know you have been there for a bit and, as you get older, health becomes more of an issue. My health has changed quite a bit in the last couple of years, albeit, I'm a smoker.

Do you worry about health issues there, maybe it seems like this is overboard, but I would hate to get sick, only to turn around, and have to come home, because of being unable to communicate with the medical community.

While in Greece I acquired a major ear infection, to the point where I couldn't hear people any more. I went to the hospitals there and received no help, maybe communication barriers, maybe lack of equipment, not exactly sure why. Luckily, I was at the end of my trip and didn't have to suffer for too long, however, it sure was one painful plane ride home.

When you do get ill, how do you find the medical community? What suggestions can you offer, what things to avoid. My mom taught in Lybia, she had a year contract, but, within 6 months, she had to turn around and come home because of illness. Or so she says anyway.

If you don't smoke, your probably healthier than I am, but I would like to know if you have any advice. Thanks

[Mr Nobody]

Hi M. 00-N here.

Make sure Q fits my porsche with those missile launchers for my road rage attacks.

Millana said:

N,

Are you claiming that you get sick at least once a month, that's quite often, is it the norm? How often do you get sick at home?

Sorry, badly worded. I meant to say that when travelling to any foreign place, i often get a couple of days of tummy trouble in the first week, then nothing for a while, but if i stay more than a month, I get a longer one, roughly a few days to a week or so about a month to six weeks in. Then, as far as I can tell, nothing again. This was explained to me by my Chinese freinds as quite common, and meant I was adjusting to the local bugs. Not sure I agree exactly, but for all practical purposes that is what it was. When I live in China for a longer period, I will no doubt experience other things. I am hardly ever sick, really, just have days here and there, and about once every two years a flu. Will get flu shots for china though.
The one flu I got in China was truly horrendous. That was in Feb this year. I still seem to have a residual cough, and I am still in Oz. However, this last trip I had no other problems at all for the whole period. Perfect health, and even was using chinese toilets most of the time ;D And I drank tap water plenty of times, but only in hotels. But then, I drank hardly any beer this time either.

China is the biggest incubator for disease on the planet. Well, nearly.

Millana said:

I thought, maybe, it was just a matter of building your immune system up to the differences in food and environment, is this not the case?

Essentially, yes, but it is a seriously unhygenic place with indiscriminate use of antibiotics.

Millana said:

If not, what are the reasons for getting sick, just a general lack of sanitation all around, or the way the food is cook, or coming across flu strains you've never encountered before.

Yep, yep, yep and yep. That might be too many yeps.


you can get dairy. I am a milk freak myself. Tastes funny, but then, all milk except home grown always does. Not so much cheese, though, and I am also a cheese freak. I don't think the stinky tofu is going to replace blue vein on my list.

Don't eat the raw meat or fish. Full of bugs and parasites, cut with a knife and hands that have been working all day etc, the germs aren't killed by heating, and then it is served on ice that you wouldn't put in your drink. Raw flesh has serious problems.

As to rare: It is ok if the blood is still in the bones eg emperor's chicken, as long as it got hot. It doesn't take much to kill the little bugs I am referring to. Even some of the sushi condiments should kill them, but I am not a trusting person.

And I think that eating cooked seafood in China will turn you into a big fan. It is great. No, it is awesome.

Water is a little different. Eg everyone tells you to just boil the water. It takes ten minutes of boiling to kill the bugs not just heat to boiling temp, which does virtually nothing, except kill the weak ones. Since flash boiled water is so commonly potated, and no-one seems to die, then the tap water should also be ok. But I am not game to try.

And the spoon, well, in one week, i am already sick of it. I have no suitable adjectives available. I will, however, use its resources. I am going to need help in China. Lots of help. I haven't been an employee for over 20 years. Err.

I am sort of afraid to ask, but what is gooey food?

[Jollyjunklass]

Gooey food =slimey. Squid, mussels, octopus (which is okay once it becomes deep fried calamari), anything that slides down the throat without chewing, guess it's a female issue, no pun intended.

And yeah, I hear you about that employment thing, I think i've been kinda spoiled too, have always done my own thing, on my own time. I've been pretty lucky at making my own things happen, the way I want them to. A nine to five type deal is a real scary thought for me.

With teaching, it looks as though, there may be intervals between classes, allowing a little more leeway. And, even if there is extra work that needs to be done out of classroom time, that's cool by me. I'm not lazy (actually I'm pretty hyper), however, I am a self starter and work well in an autonomous type environment.

My biggest fears, about the teaching thing, are my own independent type lifestyle, not crazy about being told what and how to do things; and standing up in front of a crowd (not kids though, but, usually in formal situations). I have no problem shooting my mouth off in groups (ie. lifeskill groups), but I do with, all eyes on you more formal type groups of say, peers.

I'm a more casual type person (typical Canuck, I guess), formalities irk me and scare the crap out of me. My own wedding scared me silly.

Big ones to overcome, but you can't let your fears dictate your life choices, can you?

Fake it 'til you make it, as the saying goes.

[Jollyjunklass]

By the way, from here on in it's Bond, James Bond that is!

[Dr. Gonzo]

M,
Whilst not being quite as ancient as Hamish and George, I'm in the zone!
In my first year there I was a smoker and put away plenty of firewater. I had constant stomach problems, and lost a lot of weight.
Thereafter, I quietened down, gave up the weed and suffered no more than the sore throats and URT infections that are part of life in China.
Hygeine being what it is there, you have a good chance of copping some sort of gastro early in your stay. Immunity seems to build to a point though. You will need English speaking Chinese friends if you want to access the health system, which generally operates out of public hospitals. I found Shanghai's, while less than perfect, to be much better than nothing: the dental system almost impressed me.
Again, if you're in a big city and have money or insuramce, you can get high standard care from Western trained doctors.

PS Do not drink any water that hasn't been boiled, or is in a bottle with an unbroken seal.....ever!