What's on the menu...

[George61]

So far, touch wood, I have been pretty good. I smoke and drink...way too much, but have not suffered any serious problems. ...except dental. I have visited the dreaded dentist several times..root canals, etc. No problems, not even too much damage to my wallet.
Heavy colds have seen me on the drip several times. Very relaxing, and works fine with me. A couple of times had my tummy upset by street food, but only for a day at a time. I wash vegetables under the tap, then cook them. Fruit, I wash and eat fresh.
Seafood is good, and I have taken to eating mussels, etc, but I still shy away from raw oysters.
In restaurants, I eat whatever I get, even though I have seen many kitchens. Same as home....If you worry too nuch, you'd never eat anything.

[Hamish]

George61 said:

So far, touch wood, I have been pretty good. I smoke and drink...way too much, but have not suffered any serious problems.

Tell her about mental health services here George. You're always hanging out in the padded cell with the cool white dinner jacket.

[George61]

We are discussing food here, Hamish! My mental condition has nothing to do with food. In fact my mental condition is superb! Being crazy here is a plus!

[Mr Nobody]

Dr. said:

PS Do not drink any water that hasn't been boiled, or is in a bottle with an unbroken seal.....ever!

I read what I wrote earlier, and I must agree with the good doc. Don't drink the water, but don't drink the mineral water either. Drink the distilled water.

I have been checking water quality. I will report more later.

There are issues, but just because the locals say it isn't drinkable doesn't mean it isn't. Or is. In Saamoa, I was told that westerners shouldn't drink it because they aren't strong enough, but the locals drink it.
In HK the water has been clean for decades but the locals still insist on boiling it.


I was trying to point out the logic though.

Flash boiling water for an instant has virtually no effect on most of the bugs in it, except for ones that are soft and unencysted. The encysted bugs, which are the nastier types waiting for your soft bodily tissues take at least 10 minutes of boiling, and many 40 min. Coliform bacteria, the ones often responsible for the stomach issues take at least 2 mins of constant boiling, and preferable 10. So normal flash boiling doesn't work.

Most bottled water has higher levels of bacteria than most tap water in western countries, but how that compares in China I have no idea, despite moderately serious searching. Both would likely be higher. The tap water is also improving as well. Again, I don't know. But I do know that if you just turn the jug on and wait until it turns off, you almost as well have done nothing. This is the usual method of sterilization. How big is that almost? Again, not entirely sure.

For example, if you brush your teeth in tap water, wash fruit in it and eat it, and so on, then you may as well drink it. Same kind of contact. In China I peel fruit due to the raw human sewage fertilization.

Distilled rather than mineral water is the way to go, and it is cheap enough. Also, this ensures that there is no other pollutants in it, like arsenic, etc.

About 15-20% of total tap water is potable, by Western standards, in china, according to several websites i looked at and this is all in the cities. I would suggest this standard is very high, and more would be over the mark needed for health.

Undercooked or raw oysters are really high on the list of nasty disease transmitters. They are filter feeders that live in sewage. The levels of hideous diseases is really high. Undercooked oysters are high on my list of the source of my nasty dysentery. But then, it was going around HK at the time, killing kids in school. So could have picked it up anywhere.

[Mr Nobody]

George61 said:

have not suffered any serious problems. ...except dental. I have visited the dreaded dentist several times..root canals, etc. No problems, not even too much damage to my wallet.
Heavy colds have seen me on the drip several times.

My dentist did a tour of china dentist thing, and he said that in the major cities he went to (beijing, guangzhou, shanghai, not sure what else) he was actually impressed with the level of quality of dentistry and the level of hygeine!!!!!! (he snuck off on his own to observe ones that he wasn't being led to) He was only taken aback by one thing, the hair dresser salon approach. He said japan sucked the big one dentistry-wise for hygeine.

He also said he doubts that rural areas would have the same standards and quality.

I would be very careful about the drip thing. It worries me quite a bit, but then, I don't entirely know what they think they are doing. I haven't been able to find out what they are actually doing and why they think this is the way to go.

But I don't like things stuck in my veins even when convinced of clean needles, I am allergic to penicillin which can't work on virii anyhow, and don't trust the docs, and anyway, it is for dehydration. I prefer filtering the water through my intestines rather than injected straight into my veins. I would not consider it a remedy for anything unless you are going to die if you don't.

[Jollyjunklass]

I'n glad you guys mentioned the dentist. I have been getting a lot of dental work done in the last year, mainly root canals. Was suppose to have one tomorrow, put told him to pull the damn thing. In order to get root canals on my bottom teeth I need to be knocked out, My bottoms don't freeze well. Is that an option there? I'm glad to hear the dental work is okay, because at this stage in the game, dental seems to be my main problem. Although, the smoking is starting to catch up with me. A little worried about that, together with the heat, makes for easy exhaustion. Heat it starting to affect me more than it used to.

BTW, Dr.Gonzo, congrats on the smoking, hard thing to do!

I'm experiencing no real health problems now, but like I said, in the beginnings of feeling the affects of smoking. I want to be able to trek around at some point, so, with any luck, maybe I can cut down.

This drip seems to be a popular thing, I guess you mean IV drip, never had one other than for operations, not quite sure how you are using it and what purpose it serves. Is it a popular form of treatment over there. I too, am allergic to penicillan. Maybe someone could elaborate on the drip.

From what I gather, from you guys they, misdiagnose a lot, therefore give out wrong meds. So it's always an iffy situation whether you are being treated for what you actually have. Is this about right?

I haven't been to the doc in years, but with age and everything you never know when things are going to start to go wrong. I guess when I get there and do get sick, I can tell you guys my symptoms, and you can kinda give me clues as to whether or not it's anything to really worry about. Or whether it's just your typical flu or stomach ailment.

Anyway, I will stay away from all unsealed water and think i will even stay away from seafood. Not crazy over it anyway. What about bringing a Brita, would that help matters. I could get filters sent to me. Or are the filters too weak for over there? Also don't they have some type of water tablets, maybe I could get my hands on some of them.

Thanks for all the info guys.
BTW, whay is potated?

[woza17]

Yesterday I bought fresh milk from this guy who rides around on his motorbike with 2 large stainless steel containes strapped on each side. Apparently as my neighbour told me that he has a couple of cows and she then went on to tell me a "funny story" that a couple of times when he had orders he couldn't fill he just added water. She doesn't buy the milk herself because it's not pastureised. Should I drink it I used to when I was a small kid.

[Mr Nobody]

Woza, I would say don't drink it. Unpasteurized is risky. It is full of bugs. Even things like typhoid etc. You could be lucky, you might not be. But then, life is a gamble. Hey, you could boil it or run steam through it.

M. Bond here. Distilled water is easily available same as mineral water. Chinese get much of their needed calcium from mineral water, apparently, since they don't drink milk, many are lactose intollerant. (25% of pop. compared to 10% westerners) It is just a choice thing I think. But distilled is generally lower in pollutants and in bugs.

I am thinking of getting stills manufactured over there. They could also be used for water.

Seafood isn't as chancy as you might think. It is kept alive until its ............... time for the wok!!!!!!!!!!
And the filter feeders are cooked just fine.

But Chinese understand "allergic". Anything you don't want, say you are allergic. Fish, beer, stinky tofu. Saves explaining.

[Lotus Eater]

Was listening to Radio Australia the other day and they were talking about water filters to use for dodgy countries and found that coffee grinds and tea leaves were effective against most of the E. coli type bugs and others.

I have only ever boiled the water, but generally twice, and then use it. I wash fruit and veges in the tap water and naturally cook with the tap water. I use the tap water on my toothbrush but rinse with boiled water. So far so good. I buy water when travelling and in hotel rooms just use the kettle.

Your university/school may provide you with a water cooler - you can see wter delivery people riding their bikes or motorbikes all over with large bottles of water on the sides.

If you are at a university there will generally be a university clinic or hospital attached and if you are sick the FAO should be helpful. The drip thing is funny - but boring as hell! They feed the antibiotics through it rather than giving them orally, and then top up with fluid.

Most Chinese hospitals require the family to do all of the nursing care - and of course we don't always bring our family with us, so the university will donate relay teams of students to you as family. Then only time I ended up on the drip they students were great - told me it was an honour to hold the drip for me while I went to the (squat) toilet.

There are often western or western staffed clinics and hospitals around, although they have also succumbed to Chinese characteristics, so don't get too hung up on privacy during your exams or while getting results. Being ill is a communal thing - even occasionally a public thing!

My best advice re getting ill on the food or water is - keep your eyes shut re hygiene and believe that your stomach will be fine! If you get too hooked up on hygiene you will never eat in any restuarant or outdoors, which means you are going to spend your entire time here cooking for yourself, not travelling and missing out on some fantastic food.

Some of the best places to eat are the ones that look dodgiest. But if you are really worried eat at the places that you see are crowded. High turnover of food and clearly well recommended by the locals.

[Lotus Eater]

Milk can easily be bought. The students drink doufu milk of a morning and in the evening switch to cow milk - all in little plastic bags with straws. There is also mares milk, camel milk, deer milk and goat milk depending on where you travel!

Cheese can be bought at the big western supermarkets - Metro etc. Not always the exact cheese you want will be there, but always imported cheeses of one form or another. Including European ones made of unpastuerised milk.

[Mr Nobody]

Sorry, M, only just saw your question.

Potated, isn't, as you might imagine, drunk on vodka. It is past tense for potate, same root as potable, from the latin potum, drink. (Or the verb, rather, potare, to drink. I had to look that up.)

As in "Pro Christo do mehe potum" = "For Christ's sake give me a drink" the last lines of the Domesday book, c 1068CE.

If memory serves, at least.

It was me using a big word instead of a diminuitive one. Bond out.

[George61]

"Potable"...means you can carry it with you....as in "cans are more potable than bottles."

[Mr Nobody]

Is that related to "impotent"? As in "beer is more impotent than food"?

Some of my smileys have stopped again

[Jollyjunklass]

Oh I get it George,

As in portapotty, thanks!

Hey guys and gals, that means you Lotus , thanks for all the great info. I think I am going to speak to a doctor about the water filters and tabs. See if they'll help. Can you rent those water coolers, maybe put one in your apartment, if you aren't hooked up with the University. If the water associated with them is fine that would be the ideal solution. Here they deliver huge bottles to hook up to the coolers, does the same go for there?

Good one, Bond out! I like that.

I have something, kinda cute, to tell. Maybe no one else will get a chuckle, but I sure did.

I am emailing, back and forth, with this girl from China. I told her about the book I was reading, Wild Swans. I asked her if she had ever read it. She then went to Amazon to check it out and emailed back asking, if it was the one by Jung Chan, I said yes. She said, no she had not read it, but had read the reviews at Amazon. I proceeded to read the reviews on Amazon and realized it was banned in China.

I wrote her back, saying OMG, I'm sorry, I didn't realize it was banned there. She wrote back.

"I'm sure there'll be no OMG here, for sure, if you meant Overhead Mounted Gun, just because the mere mention of the name of that book."

Ar first I was going to let it go, but it was just too comical, I had to fill her in. I asked her, where she got the saying, "Overhead Mounted Gun" from, she said she has an electronic Chinese - English dictionary, and when she passed the cursor over the word OMG, it's translation was Overhead Mounted Gun.

Do you think that translation could have anything to do with their desire to keep religion out of the picture?

[Mr Nobody]

M, Bond here.

I would rather have the Chinese version of the OMG on the roof of the car, and the Canadian version in the glovebox. Please convey my wishes to Q.

The gf has had one of the water coolers in all her apts, so i guess they are freely available. They look almost identical to ones I have seen here, including being made in China. The ones there often also have a hot water tap as well, the ones here had a refrigerated one.

Bond out.

[Newbs]

"Potable"...means you can carry it with you....as in "cans are more potable than bottles."

Bulltwang. There's a difference between potable and poRtable. I'm with the erudite, educated and sophisticated faction on this one. Sorry George, you're on your own.

Can you rent those water coolers, maybe put one in your apartment, if you aren't hooked up with the University.

Millana they're everywhere and at least this little black duck doesn't even have to pay a jiao for it. Just every few weeks has to lug a bottle up one flight of stairs. There was a thread here awhile back about whether you can trust what's in the water coolers. I do and so far no problems. If you can't trust the water coolers then you are making life more difficult for yourself.

I've heard kids here, whose English is only Beginners or Elementary, say "Oh, my God!" I reckon they get it from watching DVDs. The Chinese for OMG is actually "Tian a", although that literally means "Oh heavens."

By the way, you're asking all the right questions. Myself, and thousands of others, have puzzled over the same things you are thinking of. I all works out in the end.

[Mr Nobody]

Newbs said:

.... snip ..... this little black duck ....snip ......

They give little black ducks degrees, esl quals and jobs? And I thought those that complained about backpackers were justified.

Er, and on a personal note, how do you manage to hide when the cooks are looking for main courses?




Of course, I support you on the erudition point.

[George61]

Bulltwang. There's a difference between potable and poRtable. I'm with the erudite, educated and sophisticated faction on this one. Sorry George, you're on your own

Reeeeaaallly, Newbs? ..and here I was thinking I had made a pun!! I didn't realise little black ducks were so erudite!

[Lotus Eater]

If you aren't supplied with a water cooler, they are easily bought in the Chinese supermarkets and are for both hot and cold water.

Almost all offices around have them, and it should be easy to arrange to buy bottles. The water in them is fine.

China looks scary from the outside, but once you are here, it will feel so much simpler and easier. SHUSSH - that is one of the secrets we don't tell our nearest and dearest because we want them to think we are brave and extra-ordinarily adventurous.

[Jollyjunklass]

Shucks George I got your little pun.

Yeah, you guys must think I'm paranoid. I think if I were going with someone else I would have a lot less questions, and feel more the explorer type, because at least, when I got there, I would have someone to talk through this with.

I think it's because I'm alone, and have no idea what awaits me. so I want to be as armed as possible. My main worries, though, are getting sick and having to return or ending up in some nightmare contract, which could blow such a wonderful experience.

From all your insight, which I have really appreciated, I think the biggies will be manners, pollution, administration and grey (as in sky) days if they are more than the average. I like the sun, makes me feel warm all over

However, all these things seem, somewhat, minor when compared with the learning experience that will be gained.

Also, when getting all your feedback, I am assessing myself to see if I have what it takes. I know what my character flaws are, and with your information, I am figuring out which of these flaws will need to be worked on. Without sounding corny, you guys have given me that extra push I've needed. It also makes me feel that when I go there, I will not be totally alone, makes a huge difference. Although, you may laugh at this, your time and help has probably made the difference between me choosing to go and not choosing to go. It means a lot to me.

And I even met some pretty decent Americans, along the way. Maybe softening my heart a touch.

[Hamish]

Millana said:

Shucks George And I even met some pretty decent Americans, along the way. Maybe softening my heart a touch.

OH YEAH!

m'kay OFF!!

[Jollyjunklass]

OUCH, that hurt...touchy, touchy! I think your pissed at me for the butt comment. Hamish, I've always loved my fellow nieghbours, I just don't get why they vote the way they do, and then do it all over again. Sorry, if you took offence, nothing personal.

[Raoul Duke]

Please note that the above was just ironic humor.

Hamish's medication routine is pretty complex, and sometimes Nurse just doesn't get the balance right. It's not her fault. She does the best she can under very trying circumstances, poor thing.

[Jollyjunklass]

PHEW, was a ltlle worried there. I'll treat him delicately from here on in, thanks for the tidbit. Get that boy some valium.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Irrascable misanthropic old knave that he is, Hamish tells EVERYONE to m'kay off. Consider yourself excluded until he does so.