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Post by burlives on Jun 7, 2005 17:22:45 GMT 7
Has anyone come across this?
Wall Street, Canlix and Web International use this gizmo and say that teachers don't need to prepare lessons.
Sounds... odd. And then they pay high salaries. What gives?
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Post by George61 on Jun 8, 2005 2:57:08 GMT 7
Easy....switch on the computers, then go read a book....preferably something edifying, not science fiction.
Computer people always get high salaries, unlike teachers!
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Wolf
Charter Member and Old Chum
Though this be madness, yet there is method in it.
Posts: 1,150
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Post by Wolf on Jun 8, 2005 5:53:28 GMT 7
I've heard of it; not that I know much about it.
And speaking of edifying science fiction, there have been short stories, etc around for decades about how teachers will be inevitably replaced with robots/computers/George's post count. "The Fun They Had" comes to mind. I don't think teachers will be made obsolete anytime soon.
At the last job I had in Japan, lessons were chosen by a computer. If that disaster of a system is any indication of what a medium-to-large sized company in a G7 nation can afford to do with computer assisted learning; then we'd be far better off just having the teacher know enough about computers and the 'net to use such tools in his/her classes as he/she/George sees fit.
Until computers develop intuition akin to Data's when he figured out how to expose the Romulan fleet, then such things will be gimmicks at best. And given that it's barely possible for the average computer user to come across an operational OS, then our jobs are probably safe for mellenia to come.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Jun 8, 2005 9:45:54 GMT 7
From what I have seen of these places (WSE, Canilx, Web, etc)...
The entire curriculum is already prepared.
Lessons are developed for use on the computer.
The teacher delivers a class, just like in any other school, based upon the prepared curriculum.
The students then use the computers outside of class time to supplement the class lesson.
As to how valid these things are here, who knows. Is ANY of this stuff valid here?
It's all about money and happy smiling faces, right?
Just ask a school owner..
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Post by con's fly is open on Jun 8, 2005 10:57:30 GMT 7
What Wolf said. The future will see more teachers, not less. A computer is a brilliant supllement- it makes the Saloon possible- but human interaction is the whole point. You think the kiddies, and also the young adults, are merely learning the claa subject? Bullpoo: they're learning how to be a human adult, through observation, emulation and interaction. But I can imagine software that makes lesson plans, includes teaching steps, suggests supllementary words and topics, etc. Until it starts interrupting in class and corrects me.  |
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Post by Lotus Eater on Jun 8, 2005 14:38:40 GMT 7
Although for distaance ed the computer is brilliant. My sister runs an on-line training site and has adult students from all over the world. Their interaction is with her, plus a chat forum similar to this. Maybe there are areas that are more amenable to computer based learning. Small children need socialization - and this occurs through school.
Interesting to note that there are many young Chinese parents who feel that school is not the right place for their little monsters darlings and are now moving towards homebased education - same as in the west.
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Newbs
SuperDuperBarfly! 
If you don't have your parents permission to be on this site, naughty, naughty. But Krusty forgives
Posts: 2,085
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Post by Newbs on Jun 8, 2005 15:03:31 GMT 7
Really? Any more details, Lotus.
My 2 jiaos worth. I use computers, with all their attendant functions and programmes, for many hours every day. But computers are only as good as the trained monkey pounding the keyboard, no better. Damn, they have their uses but we are still the brains of the outfit, and we can use our imagination, which no computer can do, to the best of my knowledge.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Jun 8, 2005 15:59:38 GMT 7
Language is a social phenomenon. I think a computer as a stand-alone is limited here, until one can pass the Turing Test with a HD.
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Post by con's fly is open on Jun 9, 2005 0:36:20 GMT 7
There is a HUGE convenience to online correspondence, but you need the education habit in the first place.
CSWAP: Socrates taught without any real toys, and he and his students changed history. Made it, in fact.
Um, and knocked off a bunch of little Greek boys, but pobody's nerfest.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Jun 9, 2005 5:35:53 GMT 7
What a nice man you are.  (Note I corrected the spelling, free of charge) ....... And what a speech impediment! CAST? (computer aided speech therapy?) |
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Post by Arlis on Jun 9, 2005 23:44:29 GMT 7
I can only add in that what Raoul said is the usual means for CALL delivery. The curriculum (all/most/part) is already written out in clearly identifiable (marketable & saleable) disks with accompanying books (once again identifiable, marketable, & saleable) ready for students (and teachers) to consume. If this sounds familiar, it's exactly the same as any 'Learn English...' via cassette/cds. The only difference is that it is on computer - and thus can use the computer's 'interactivity'. It's like the bridging gap between listening courses on cassette/cds & having a teacher be the cassette/cd. (Please be advised that this is not a poke at teachers but rather the concept by some people that foreign english teachers are just the moving parts of a language course - aka. the foreign face.) At times a teacher maybe required to 'aid' students during the learning process. That is, as students progress through the material, a teacher can be on hand to give them finer points/more examples on whatever topic is being discussed (programming/budget/technology constraints). For 2 schools here in Qingdao offering CALL learning, they use it to supplement student's (customers) learning and still require students to attend strictly teacher-led classes. Why are there high salaries? I can only guess at these, however they should center around the fact that 1) it's a new 'technology' so much like the WWW bubble, people who 'know' it are a rare species and handsomely paid. 2) Knowing said CALL program requires computer literacy (at varying levels) and possible computer trouble-shooting skills (on top of your general teaching skills). Since companies believe (and only sometimes rightly so - see point 1) that general folk are computer illiterate in all sense of the word (hence the advent of the Windows age) they should pay a premium for such said extra skills (which is a joke as anyone can learn said computer skills in under a month). I'm sure there are other questions to be asked, and please air them out for all. I probably won't be the one to answer them as my knowledge is very limited  However, it seems to me that it is becoming more and more important. For example, TOEFL is being converted into a computer centered test and CALL will become more prevalent in EFL scenes (as with all languages and/or subjects). PS. Oh umm, yeah - Since the material is so called 'prepared' already, this means in parts of China (at least Qingdao) the more foreign the face, the better. After all, obtaining licenses for these buggers are expensive, and school owners always watch out for that bottom line... more students = more money. |
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Lager
SuperBarfly!
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Post by Lager on Jun 10, 2005 15:17:58 GMT 7
I can answer Burl's question but it will require registration and a credit card number. ;D
It pays well ( but only so-so in Korea) because:
1) It is so insanely boring that nobody wwants to do it. You mindlessly follow the script ---day after day-class after class.
2) There are a lot of office hours ---they need an "expert" around at all times.
3) Often split shifts . (At leats inROK>)
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Post by con's fly is open on Jun 10, 2005 18:04:29 GMT 7
After reading what Arlis said, I want to change my mind a bit. Any part out learning that could be offloaded from the teacher, especially a foreign teacher, is efficient. Some folks would do better with computer games than listening to lectures (I'm a pre-computer dinosaur, but if I were a kid today I'd've been all over it).
The bigger variety of learning sources and methods, the better. Nonetheless, the interactive mode is essential to all, and for some students it's almost the only effective one. After all, the whole point to learning another language is to interact.
It occurs to me that rather than offering more money for FT's, these guys should advertise FREE COMPUTER TRAINING in with the perks.
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Post by acjade on Jun 10, 2005 18:49:27 GMT 7
I'm with you on that one but it's too ...oo easy for the little suckers. They offered us free Mandarin lessons and uh.. xie xie but bu xie ni.
And forgive me mentioning this here but without free computer training and a significant increase in salary I want to ask you guys have you got any off shore campus CEOs and attachments lurking around at the moment? Siyuan has signed a deal with a Canadian College named after a long dead Indian tribe... and someone pour me a drink... oh the humanity...the Candadians actually believed the Siyuans when they said they have many students able to enrol in a high level technological course delivered totally in English in three years time because WE HAVE A VERY HIGH PASS RATE HERE. Yes of course we do because no one fails and if they do like uh forget the 'SOLUTIONS' either A or B ( and it's happened) then a couple of hundred kwai will see liitle Wen or Ting ting with a face as bright as Einstein's. MC2 with Chinese characteristics.
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Post by Jollyjunklass on Jun 10, 2005 23:57:04 GMT 7
It's Mohawk College in Hamilton, it isn't far by me.
The Mohawks are still around in this country.
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Post by George61 on Jun 11, 2005 5:59:32 GMT 7
......as are the "Mullets", I believe!
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Post by con's fly is open on Jun 11, 2005 11:39:42 GMT 7
......as are the "Mullets", I believe! Ironically, I've never seen a Mohawk sporting a mohawk. Mullets are, in fact, making a big comeback in Canada  (as are mohawks, which at least are cool when done well). Combovers, on the other hand, remain on this side of the Pacific.  But I digress. It's just occurred to me that if I came across a CALL package to teach my older kids with (lesson plans and topics/activities/games/homework assignments), I'd push a nun in front of a bus to get my hands on it.   |
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Post by acjade on Jun 12, 2005 7:25:41 GMT 7
I'd push a nun in front of a bus just for old times sake.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Jun 12, 2005 7:52:40 GMT 7
I'd push a nun in front of a bus just for old times sake. This used to be a hobby of yours? Ah those were the days! The memories of a well-spent youth.... |
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Post by acjade on Jun 12, 2005 8:47:29 GMT 7
I'd push a nun in front of a bus just for old times sake. This used to be a hobby of yours? Ah those were the days! The memories of a well-spent youth.... Ever heard of the Mercy convent in Ballarat? And forget the bus... I want McTrucks |
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However, it seems to me that it is becoming more and more important. For example, TOEFL is being converted into a computer centered test and CALL will become more prevalent in EFL scenes (as with all languages and/or subjects).
(as are mohawks, which at least are cool when done well). Combovers, on the other hand, remain on this side of the Pacific.