Hellfire for all eternity

[Nate M]

Sea levels have risen nearly a foot (about 25 cm) this past century.
www.truehealth.org/climnw05.html

Where are you getting your numbers from?

[Nate M]

And once again, I am not, nor have I ever said, that melting the icecaps will lead to "complete" flooding. However, even the one meter rise people are talking about happening this next century is going to bring with it massive costs. Millions will have to be relocated, or lots of barriers will have to be built. Lots of farmland will be lost as it becomes more saline, is washed away, or becomes submerged altogether. That's going to effect food production. There's a chance that a big destabilization of our ocean ecosystems which could effect fish populations, (which we're already seriously depleting because of our harmful fishing practices), and thus really mess up the world's food supply.

[Lotus Eater]

The popups at the top of this thread are advertising machines to melt ice!

[Mr Nobody]

which figures?
the one degree in the last 150 years? one of those things we were reading before said it, but I knew that figure from uni years ago. Hasn't changed in 20 years. It was half a degree to one degree, but now is known more accurately.

THe figures on teh temp etc, from teh article on climatology earlier, but again, they are the same ones I learned at uni.

If you mean evolution rates, if they didn't then each climatic swing would accompany a mass extinction, but only some do. Climatic shifts are frequently part of evolution. If yo mean how fast people can adjust, that is pure speculation, but I assume people can adjust faster than biological evolution.They have demonstrated this in the past.

If you mean about ocean currents, same source, learning at uni, but i haven't checked lately. They were well understood then, I am assuming that things haven't changed much. THe fact that it was ocean currents is in the article you provided.

ANd the tuvalu situation, as far as I understood (which is NOT presented in the article) is due to current shifts due to ocean warming also. NOT sea level rises per se. As a current shifts, the ocean is slightly higher where the current is, especially on teh currentward side of an island. The article is biased, naturally, due to the trope of the author and the website with which it is associated. See the one hamish produced for a more balanced viewpoint.

I do not think sea levels have risen that much. I would be surprised if it was even 100mm.

No consolation for those on the island, though.

Yeah I know nate, but I haven't said nothing is happening either. It just isn't going to happen like the fear mongers say.

We are actually arguing at crossed porpoises here.
We are agreeing on teh right things then arguing aobut crap. That is what I meant is silly.

Oh, yeah, one thing, higher co2 and higher humidity equal greater vegetation and more animal life. Happens throughout time as well.

Now, overfishing, there I really agree with you.

[acjade]

Hey you guys do I have your permission to print off this debate? Would make a great lesson for my year 2 English Majors. It's technical, it uses informal language... etc.

[Mr Nobody]

Go ahead, no worries

[acjade]

Sanx MR N. Perhaps I could have a play with it and see how it works out to include in One Hundred Flowers of English.

[Mr Nobody]

Well, take out the bit where I fluffed me maths. I made the mistake of doing a calculaton in my head where it matched what I have been told to expect and left it at that. Sheesh. I know better than that. Plus Nate might object but I doubt it. Neaten by all means, make us look astute.

BUt for the kiddywinkies, you might want to get the smokers one going instead. More topical.

[acjade]

Also a grand idea but the particular class I have in mind are really into environmental issues. They love watching films like The Day After Tomorrow ect. Besides, Xi'an is a really polluted place and the kids know it.

[George61]

Xi'an is a really polluted place and the kids know it.

Same in Jinan, BUT try and get them to really think and do something about it! They still drop their garbage anywhere, still spit anywhere, without thinking.
AJ, there is probably a lot of stuff on here which could be adapted to a textbook......careful with the bad language, tho! I.E. make sure you get it right!

[Hamish]

Issued by 11 National Academies of Science.

www.royalsoc.ac.uk/news.asp?year=&id=3226
Royal Society news stories

Clear science demands prompt action on climate change say G8 science academies

7 Jun 2005

The scientific evidence on climate change is now clear enough for the leaders of G8 to commit to take prompt action to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases, according to an unprecedented statement published today (Tuesday 7 June 2005) by the science academies of the G8 nations.

The statement is published by the Royal Society the UK national academy of science and the other G8 science academies of France, Russia, Germany, US, Japan, Italy and Canada, along with those of Brazil, China and India. It has been issued ahead of the G8 summit in Gleneagles, Scotland.

The statement calls on the G8 nations to: "Identify cost-effective steps that can be taken now to contribute to substantial and long-term reductions in net global greenhouse gas emissions." And to, "recognise that delayed action will increase the risk of adverse environmental effects and will likely incur a greater cost."

Lord May of Oxford, President of the Royal Society said: "It is clear that world leaders, including the G8, can no longer use uncertainty about aspects of climate change as an excuse for not taking urgent action to cut greenhouse gas emissions.

"Significantly, along with the science academies of the G8 nations, this statement's signatories include Brazil, China and India who are among the largest emitters of greenhouse gases in the developing world. It is clear that developed countries must lead the way in cutting emissions, but developing countries must also contribute to the global effort to achieve overall cuts in emissions. The scientific evidence forcefully points to a need for a truly international effort. Make no mistake we have to act now. And the longer we procrastinate, the more difficult the task of tackling climate change becomes.

Lord May continued: "The current US policy on climate change is misguided. The Bush administration has consistently refused to accept the advice of the US National Academy of Sciences (NAS). The NAS concluded in 1992 that, 'Despite the great uncertainties, greenhouse warming is a potential threat sufficient to justify action now', by reducing emissions of greenhouse gases. Getting the US onboard is critical because of the sheer amount of greenhouse gas emissions they are responsible for. For example, the Royal Society calculated that the 13 per cent rise in greenhouse gas emissions from the US between 1990 and 2002 is already bigger than the overall cut achieved if all the other parties to the Kyoto Protocol reach their targets. President Bush has an opportunity at Gleneagles to signal that his administration will no longer ignore the scientific evidence and act to cut emissions.

On the UK's efforts on climate change, Lord May said: "We welcome the fact that Tony Blair has made climate change a focus for its presidency of the G8 this year. But the UK government must do much more in terms of its own domestic policy if it is to turn its ambitions to be a world leader on climate change into a reality. While the UK has managed to reduce its emissions of carbon dioxide, most of the cuts have been almost accidental rather than the result of climate change policies. Indeed, its emissions actually increased by over 2 per cent in 2002 - 2003. Clearly the UK must take some tough political decisions about how it manages our ever-growing demand for energy at a time when its vital that we cut our emissions of greenhouse gases.

"The G8 summit is an unprecedented moment in human history. Our leaders face a stark choice act now to tackle climate change or let future generations face the price of their inaction. Never before have we faced such a global threat. And if we do not begin effective action now it will be much harder to stop the runaway train as it continues to gather momentum.

The statement also warns that changes in climate are happening now, that further changes are unavoidable and that, "nations must prepare for them." In particular it calls for the G8 countries to work with developing nations to enable them to develop their own innovative solutions to lessen and adapt to the adverse effects of climate change.

Lord May said: "We, the industrialised nations, have an obligation to help developing nations to develop their own solutions to the threats they face from climate change."