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Post by con's fly is open on Jun 23, 2005 7:55:35 GMT 7
I know nothing! Why did it happen? how did it end? does anybody have some answers, or better yet, some links? A shocking hole in my history education.
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Post by burlives on Jun 23, 2005 9:07:03 GMT 7
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Post by MK on Jun 23, 2005 12:56:57 GMT 7
A quick trip to Wikipedia urually allows me to bluff my way through most topics. |
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Post by con's fly is open on Jun 23, 2005 18:16:07 GMT 7
Thank ye both kindly! As I did back in college, I hereby exchange beer for education.  What I have learned: - China and Vietnam's relatinship in history as included several disputes.  - Mao despised Kruschev, and criticised Russia's interpretation of Marxism.  This is why Sino-Russian relations turned sour, and China got friendly with the USA. - The VC and PRC started to feud almost as soon as the US slunk away, for several reasons, not the least being warm VC relations with the USSR. - The Khmer Rouge in Cambodia were supported by the PRC - Vietnam invaded Cambodia because the latter were sending military incursions into the former. They kicked Cambodia's ass and toppled Pol Pot. - China announced it would invade Vietnam the day that the Sino-Russian Pact expired. Russia promised to help Vietnam partly to spite China, partly to spread their hegemony in Asia. Vietnam felt secure. - China invaded, pushing about 30 km into Vietnam. Despite commitments to protecting southern Vietnam and holding Cambodia, the VC held from there. - China left a few months later. Russia never helped Vietnam during the war, but apparently didn't need to. - Casualty estimates are vague, but it seems they lost roughly equal numbers of troops. Vietnam claimed substantial civilian deaths, while China claimed deaths of ethnic Chinese in Vietnam. - Many "Viet-Chinese" fled the country. - Relations between Vietnam and the PRC are fairly good now. Complicated tale. Stupid war, methinks, but I'd say Vietnam came off a little better in the result. |
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Lager
SuperBarfly! 
Posts: 1,081
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Post by Lager on Jun 24, 2005 11:45:53 GMT 7
America is to blame I bet. ;D
Now I am no anti- American type....but.
Take Korea for one example. The mythology is that the evil commie north invaded poor little South Korea. Not true. South Korea (under orders from America) crossed the 49th parallel and ignited what was already a bad situation. Why? The old domino business and the US were really hoping to go to war with China which turned Communist one year before. Crazed times. The famine--caused by dought---a few years back was caused by the US also.
As for 1979 ....China have good reason to fear the US---in fact Mr Kim up there in NK also does. With the moron "axis of evil" comment I don't blame the nut for getting nuke weapons. America only attacks those who can't fight back.
(As you can see I'm REAL happy about getting back to work.) People get bored when are not working? Not me---I'm very good at not working. Pat myself on the back I'm damn good at it.
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Post by Nate M on Jun 25, 2005 5:47:18 GMT 7
I don't see what China's fear of America would really have to do with Vietnam. I don't think Vietnam was too friendly with the U.S. at the time, so invading Vietnam on those pretenses seems a little silly.
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Roger
Upstanding Citizen
Posts: 243
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Post by Roger on Jun 26, 2005 9:47:34 GMT 7
No one blames the Americans for the 1979 invasion of Vietnam by the PLA.
First thing: Vietnam and China have been neighbours for about two millenia. Both started out as states expanding outwardly, and when that led to a border separating the two the border was somewhat arbitrary - as all, or most, borders tend to be.
It meant that ethnic Hans and other ethnic groups straddled the border, with many groups arriving from the depths of the huge Chinese underbelly to settle in se Asia - remember the Dais in Xishuangbanna and in Laos, the Koreans in Manchuria and North Korea, the Uigurs in Turkestan/ZXinjiang and adjoining states...
Over time, China actually occupied large parts of Vietnam and colonised it. KIf I remember well, last time the hans got kicked out was in around 900 A.D. After that, Chinese emperors were suzerains - exacting special forms of reverence to them without actually ruling over their territories.
Han-Chinese accounted for a sizeable number of Vietnamese citizens until 1979; during the COld War the relationship between the two communist superpowers entered a hostile phase - China even built factories and hospitals underground in anticipation of a nuclear attack on the PR of C as early as the 1960s! Vietnam therefore chose to align itself with the Soviets. Thus it became a hostile neighbour and Chinese leaders developed a paranoya aboutbeing "encircled" by their enemies...
In addition, Vietnam invaded Cambodia to get rid of that madman Pol POt who was a CHinese puppet. (Interestingly, last year when a high-ranking CHinese delegation arrived in Pnom Penh Cambodians wanted to present them with a demand for an apology for the crimes committed against their murdered compatriots).
The Vietnamese also were guilty of expropriating and maltreating thousands upon thousands of Chinese which led to a huge exodus (I personally met some in Hong Kong and in Zhuhai; others have been resettled in Hainan!).
Anyway, the Chinese invasion - ostensibly to "teach the Vietnamese a lesson" - occurred in spring of 1979. Initially the aggressors made quick gains along the common border, but they finally got bogged down farther inland and were repulsed. Some western observers estimate the PLA losses at 45'000 men!
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woza17
SuperDuperBarfly!
Posts: 2,203
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Post by woza17 on Jun 26, 2005 20:09:12 GMT 7
As far as I know it was a borderline skirmish . I used to dine with this prick who had been there. he had a flesh wound on his arm and was made the president of the local bank. I had a big fight with him one night because he insulted my Chinese friend , who poos over him in the brains department. In that town even if you had lifted a gun you would be given a great position in the government.
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