A gentle ride through the countryside?

[Non-Dave]

Can anyone offer a little enlightenment on the option of catching a train from Shanghai to Harbin?

I'm toying with the possibility of riding the train instead of flying. I'm thinking it will be a bit of an adventure, and a cheaper alternative to flying.

I'd appreciate any ideas on whether this is a reasonable option or just complete lunacy...

[George61]

You obviously have a lot of time on your hands, Non-Dave. That's gunna take a long time, but probably good fun. Get yourself a sleeper, tho. ...and take your own dunny paper. There will be none on the train.

[Non-Dave]

I've got way too much time! I'm using Frequent Flyer points to get to Shanghai (or Hong Kong) and they only have availability on 9 August - the school doesn't want me there until 24 August. I'm looking at ways to kill the time in between...

Thanks for the tip on the TP!

[Mr Nobody]

If you have a lot of time, then why not city hop, one night in each place? Travelling by bus is faster and cheaper down this end, but you don't get much sleep, and don't get to interact with the locals, although if you have no Chinese, then they don't anyway. I would probably go by bus each morning, stay in a cheap place each night, and check out each city on the way. Something like that.

[con's fly is open]

The only advantage of an airplane is speed- they're expensive and uncomfortable.

The train lines between Shangahi-Beijing-Harbin are major (China's big on developing the North), so it should be little hassle. But go soft sleeper all the way: pricier, but way more room for your luggage. And Chinese trains are marvellous and smooth, plus you meet all kinds of folks along the way.

And if you take Nobby's advice, and stop along the way, most of us live between A and B. Consider this an invitation from me to drop by Dashiqiao on your way: the hospitality is wonderful, the seafood kicks ass, and the shopping is dirt cheap.

[Raoul Duke]

Welcome, non-D. A short side trip from Shanghai to Suzhou is also on offer here. I'll teach ya to drink tequila!

The TP was a good tip. Add books, an MP3/CD player, and decent snacks to the list. You'll be on the train a couple of days.

Uh....do you speak any Chinese?

[Raoul Duke]

Oh, yeah...do take the advice on getting a sleeper. If you've never experienced the glory of a Chinese train, make sure it's a SOFT sleeper!

[ilunga]

I'm gonna big-up the HARD sleepers. Ok they're not quite as comfy (so they say, i've never gone soft) but they're cheaper and if you're stuck with the family from hell, you're not trapped in. Make sure you get a sleeper well in advance though. Upgrading is a major pain in the bum. I had to wade through four carriages only to be told 'mei you'. Oh they had sleepers at 6am. Only nine hours of feeling like a sardine. Come 7am my arse was killing me so I took the plunge and forked out an extra 50 kuai. I had the choice of either heading back to train three, collecting my luggage and squeezing through the masses all the way to train 14, or going straight to my sleeper and leaving my bags were they were. I chose the latter and fortunately they were still there upon arrival.

I think you have to do a long hard-seat journey to truly appreciate the hard-sleeper.

[Ruth]

I did a hard sleeper from Xingcheng to Harbin. It wasn't bad. Try to get a lower berth, unless you are nimble. Also makes for a better seat during the daytime. Take the guys up on the visiting options. I'd offer you room and board in Xingcheng except I won't be back there until August 23rd at the earliest. Soft sleepers are very cushy - I did one from Xingcheng to Beijing - but you don't get the total 'China experience' that way.

[con's fly is open]

I've read more old novels than I can even remember, and they frequently talk about the joy of meeting strangers on the train. I didn't know what they meant until I came to China.

On the train we are all equal: travelling from here to there, sharing the same time and space, with nothing to fear from each other. Let's pass the time: where are you going? What will you do there? What do you do? What's your life about? We don't have to impress each other, just be friendly and civil, and kill a few minutes.

There's usually someone who speaks a little English. Between their pidgeon English and my pidgeon Chinese we manage.

[Raoul Duke]

I kinda like the hard sleepers too...but then I've been in China long enough, and have ridden enough trains, for some of the shock and horror to wear off.

If you're new to all this, and speak little or no Chinese, then the soft sleepers offer a slightly gentler introduction.

[Non-Dave]

Thanks for all the info! Spoke to my (Chinese) travel agent today and told her what I was planning - got back a long stream of Chinese followed by "No, bad idea!" Still not convinced...

Thanks for the invites Con & Raoul - If I go with the train I'd love to take you up on the offers.

As far as speaking Chinese goes - I can say hello, kind of. No doubt that will change.

Thanks again for the info. Decision time approaches rapidly.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Overnight hard sleeper SH to BJ is around 160Y and a pretty painless trip. BJ to Harbin should be easy to organise from BJ and you could spend a few days in the capital as well; more than a few if you've got time to kill.

[Mr Nobody]

You will need to know things, like wear the slippers they provide under the bottom bunks, go to the food cart and get din din, ensure you take plenty of water and snacks, although someone pushes a trolley full of tepid water and snacks about 3 times a day down the carriage. Soft sleeper I went on had a western toilet at one end, and a chinese one at the other end that was sometimes locked. Toilet paper in both. Take a towel to wash face and things, or the Chinese think you are dirty. There was a washroom at one end, but the water didn't always work. Drinking water was available at an unhygenic looking tap I didn't try. The weird red symbols that light up at the end of the corridor indicate the toilet is occupied. There are seats near the windows you can look out of, but the corridor is narrow and people just barge past without warning. No one was inclined to speak english on the train I was on, and my Chinese is only a little better than hello, etc.

The top bunk isn't too hard to get to if you are moderately healthy, or not too old. The blanket makes it softer, I found the soft sleeper quite hard, and too short for my 6'4" and I stuck out all over hitting objects trying to get comfy. I suspect a hard sleeper is a bare slab of cast iron. Plenty of room for luggage. I got my sleeper less than one hour before the train left, last one, but could use the VIP airconditioned waiting room.

It was very noisy, the train had loud piped music until way too late. I suspect Chinese people are actually deaf, and will write a monoloque later on this topic.

That is about all the orientation I can offer.

[acjade]

The Chinglish signs on the train are worth a read.

Traveller Halt

Please flush the closet pot

I think these signs and the others would make great chapter headings for a book on working and living in China.

[con's fly is open]

i have to disagree with Nobby: soft sleepers have a huge alcove at the foot of the upper bunks, while hard sleepers have a skimpy rack at the head of the upper bunks. I barely managed to stuff my 3 bags in, and it took some major rearranging; then I had to repeat the entire exercise getting off. pain in the ass both for me, and my 3 cabinmates.

[acjade]

So when I go down to Woza's summer abode is it to be hard sleeper or soft?
I don't care about degrees of comfort as I've learned to sleep on a bed as unyeilding as metal. Even like it. Great for posture. But it's the privacy on the trip I'm after. So which sleeper offers the most downtime?

[con's fly is open]

In my experience, soft has a door, hard doesn't.

Both you're just taking stuff for an intra-China vacation; whereas non-Dave's arriving with all his gear. I doubt you'll really suffer if you go hard sleeper- there still nice IMHO.

Go soft, non-Dave, if you have the means. I came down here in hard and it was a pain- and that was just a 9 hour trip. You'll likely take 2 days.

[Raoul Duke]

Going via Beijing is seriously recommended if you really have some days to kill. If ya come to China and never see the Great Wall, the Forbidden City, and Tiananmen Square (and the Terra Cotta Army out in Xian) then you're just pulling your popsicle.

If you're saving these trips for later I think you can also go to Harbin from Shanghai via Jinan, Shenyang, and Changchun. And an exciting and hygienic set of cities they are.

Sometimes the dining cars on long-distance trains can actually be pretty good. I've had some interesting and enjoyable times in some of them; my favorite of course remains the Hunan trip where the staff tried to marry me off to one of the push-cart girls. She was a hottie, too, although maybe it's just the tequila talking. Excuse me while I pause for shot #4.

Ay Carrumba!

Anyway, note that the dining cars on trains tend to only serve during intensely rigid dining hours. Miss them and it's ramen noodles for you, pal.

Another advantage of soft sleeper class (aside from not sharing a compartment with 5 staring unwashed drunken melon-seed-spitting migrant workers from Shijiazhuang, carrying feed sacks full of live pigs and returning home for a little animal husbandry) is that you often have access to a squalid slimy filth-covered sit-down toilet rather than just a squatter surrounded by a half-inch-deep pool of urine or worse. It's a little perk that may just be well worth the few hundred extra yuan you will spend.

So, are you getting a bit of the flavor (pardon the expression) of train travel here yet?

[Mr Nobody]

What Raoul said about the toilet. Also, Con, the sentence referring to plenty of room was referring to soft sleeper.

The soft sleeper I had was shared with 3 other unwashed. Are there private sleepers? One of the unwashed snored like a great big snoring thing.

[con's fly is open]

Dunno. I doubt it; they deal in bulk, and one to a cabin would be pretty inefficient.

[Raoul Duke]

I've seen private cabins on the BJ-HK train. A generous goodwill offering are required.

[Canuck]

If you are planning to make stops along the way be sure to hang onto your ticket. Beijing especially.. they won't let you out of the station if you don't have your ticket. I've even had to buy a ticket to assist a friend carry bags to her train in Beijing. My wife and I took the train to Hang Zhou last spring.. no problems at Hang Zhou. My wife lost the tickets on the way back to Beijing and no-one told us we would need them to get off the train. A big WTF, from me.. fortunately my wife is Chinese and we were able to get out of the station by bribing the attendant to sell us a ticket from a closer city. It cost us 300 RMB each, at first they wanted us to buy the ticket from Hang Zhou to Beijing to get out of the station. If you can't speak Chinese this could prove to be very frustrating.

[Non-Dave]

WOW!!! I'm glad I asked. I can almost smell the "local flavour" from here. It does sound like an adventure that shouldn't be missed though I'm not sure about it as my first experience in China, but I've flown domestic in Africa so this can't be too much scarier...

Thanks all for your words of wisdom and experience. Sounds like some great material here for a book!

[con's fly is open]

Non-D, we all keep saying that...