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Post by con's fly is open on Sept 28, 2005 18:44:18 GMT 7
Shanghai guide to beggars and cheats
Last Updated Sun, 25 Sep 2005 11:27:26 EDT
CBC News
Shanghai has published a new manual outlining how to distinguish between needy beggars and swindlers.
The "Recognizing Phonies" guide lists popular scams - ranging from women faking pregnancies, to counterfeit monks and bogus students asking for tuition help.
"Amid the great army of city vagrants, there is a cadre of professional beggars who prey on the sympathies of citizens," reads the manual, issued by the city's Civil Affairs Bureau.
The bureau said it doesn't want to discourage people from helping beggars. It just wants to ensure people don't end up helping a cheat.
But the manual also reflects common prejudices about people from China's rural areas. Newcomers are blamed here for everything from traffic to crime and dirty streets.
The city is struggling to cope with an influx of beggars and vagrants, following a decision to eliminate police powers to detain them.
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Post by Dr. Gonzo on Sept 30, 2005 2:37:56 GMT 7
Watch for "students" asking you to visit their "art exhibition".
They generally lurk near the Nanjing Rd/Bund intersection.
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Wolf
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Though this be madness, yet there is method in it.
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Post by Wolf on Sept 30, 2005 6:12:51 GMT 7
Watch for "students" asking you to visit their "art exhibition". They generally lurk near the Nanjing Rd/Bund intersection. What is it really? A vague artistic reference, so I'd guess prostitution. Or do they just drag you somewhere and rob you? |
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Post by MK on Sept 30, 2005 8:01:30 GMT 7
You can't walk down Wanfujing street in Beijing without being jumped by at least one group of these suppposed college students selling their art. I used look right through them and keep walking, but another friend would often try and have fun by engaging them in inane conversations...she actually ended up making good friends with a couple of them and even got some free paintings out of it.
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auflos
Up And Coming
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Post by auflos on Oct 3, 2005 21:14:18 GMT 7
Yep! Seen it in just about every big tourist area ... Usually some salesmen hoping for a rich western devil to sell some low quality paintings to. However, never leave out the possibility of a nice robbery! I have heard some scary "working girl" stories as well. Usually end with a "boyfreind" showing up and demanding your wallet.
My thought? Nice chinese people do not usually proposition you in the street?
Thomas
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yijin
Up And Coming
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Post by yijin on Oct 18, 2005 19:06:10 GMT 7
Needy beggers? poo, never show mercy to them, 99.9% are swindlers, I simply have no idea why our Chinese are willing to offer money to them. How wuold u possibly response if you got to know that they are even more wealthier than you?
One more thing, as your foreign friends might not be able to see is that the wretched beggers either are handicapped or even part of his body twisted, why? these are the the well organized begging group, the twisted bodies are the result of ruthless physical damage made by "managers"of the group. monstrous indeed.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Oct 18, 2005 23:34:49 GMT 7
I suspect that deformed beggars need help regardless of the reason for their deformity. Anyone that desparate for money deserves it. Would you damage yourself permanently for such meager pay?
And the managers or other people who do such things to them should be severely punished and forced to indemnify them. For life.
Perhaps some social program would help?
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Post by Edges on Oct 19, 2005 3:16:42 GMT 7
If that statement is correct, what a sad, sad world we live in!  |
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Crippler
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Post by Crippler on Oct 19, 2005 10:10:13 GMT 7
If that statement is correct, what a sad, sad world we live in!  I know jin well and trust his word on these matters. He is well travelled and as a native Chinese has good insight to the workings of many areas of native life. I too agree it is monstrous! |
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Post by Lotus Eater on Oct 19, 2005 13:45:40 GMT 7
I suspect that deformed beggars need help regardless of the reason for their deformity. Anyone that desparate for money deserves it. Would you damage yourself permanently for such meager pay? And the managers or other people who do such things to them should be severely punished and forced to indemnify them. For life. Perhaps some social program would help? I have no disagreement with the sentiment expressed and further agree that this is truly monstrous behaviour. However, to give money to the disabled beggars is similar to giving money to the children - it encourages the 'managers' to further exploit or create disabilities to gain money. There needs to be another solution. A better welfare system, better social security payments maybe??? |
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Ruth
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Post by Ruth on Oct 20, 2005 7:05:01 GMT 7
Jin is not the only Chinese person here who has told me about the maiming.
Depends on my mood, or how God speaks to my heart, what I do when I pass a beggar. Sometimes I go and buy food and bring the food back, sometimes give money, sometimes walk past. I did the same back home; beggars are just more prevalent here.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Oct 20, 2005 8:11:10 GMT 7
I have heard of this before, in India, where parents and 'managers' deform and/or mutilate even children. Saw a doco where a child had his genitals removed for this purpose. He exposed the scars for tourists for money.
Shoot them all - the people who do this, not the victims. Although, often they were victims themselves once, as in this documentary.
Lotus is right, though, and I sort of meant to say that, although it isn't clear from my post. I don't give money to beggars. There should be social programs for this. Unfortunately, this need is largely filled by govt (they don't seem to want to do that here) or charities (mostly run by churches in other countries), which they don't have here either, or not in sufficient sizes.
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Crippler
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Post by Crippler on Oct 20, 2005 10:30:12 GMT 7
It will not change until the government is ready to take the bull by the horns. I don't give even though it bothers me to see children and other unfortunates suffer. Hurts big time but I can't solve the countries problems.
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Post by Lotus Eater on Oct 20, 2005 10:51:57 GMT 7
The reason I SOMETIMES give is sheer guilt. No matter how bad my life is, it has never been as bad as these peoples lives. But logically I know I am not helping in any real way - merely easing my own conscience a little.
I have a friend who pushes beggars out of the road if they become persistent. She hates being touched or pulled at or stood in front of with a bowl in her face. Although I understand her feelings, I still figure that they are people who will never have the benefits I have had, and so, should stuill be treated with a level of tolerance - not further abuse.
Where I live in Oz has so few beggars that it is the biggest part of culture shock when travelling.
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Post by Jollyjunklass on Oct 20, 2005 16:31:04 GMT 7
I'm with Yinjin,
On the first days I arrived I was warned by my FOA about organized begging. And everyday I dread going downtown to the BEGSTOP bus stop. I have been grabbed by nasty screaming little girls who don't let go. When i try to remove their hands they scream even louder. This is not begging, it's harassment. Do not give to these people, by giving you are allowing these children to keep being abused. If you don't give they will have to find something more decent to do with respect to their children, maybe the children may get lucky and these beggar groups might feel they are not bringing in the required cash, and send them astray.
Sometimes, I think my Chinese friends are embarrassed by them, so eventually after I yell NO NO NO, can you spell NO, they begin to cave in. I say to them, don't you dare do that because you think this is bothering me, then they put their money back into their pockets.
Sounds harsh, but look at it in a codependent type of way. Giving allows these children to stay on the streets with these groups.
The other day this shaven head guy followed me into a store, handed me some card and wanted 10 yuan, I said, "I don't think so". He kept it up and kept it up. The people in the store were laughing, then I lost it. I was so sick of being harassed that day, I walked up to the women who were laughing, looked at the beggar, and started yelling, ask them, ask them. You will get nothing from me, you are wasting your time, again NO,NO, get it, get it.
Finally the guy started worrying that maybe I was some kind of psycho, so he backed off. Well 3 stores later, I walk out and he is standing in front of me again. I started laughing hysterically, "You have got to be kidding me, I say. Are you for real or what" I sat down I was laughing so hard at the gumption of this guy. This guy looks at me and starts laughing his head off too. Then I get up, we wave good-bye and we part ways.
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Crippler
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Post by Crippler on Oct 20, 2005 17:25:56 GMT 7
If the children who are bought and then used as beggars do not earn their keep then they will likely end up buried somewhere in an abandoned field. They are purely a commodity to their owners and if non-productive will be resold or killed. However, your giving is a very small part of the amount they need to earn so by yourself you will have little if any impact on their final resting place. Another thing that is happening is a child sex trade which they are also used for. Some deviates will pay big bucks to abuse these kids.
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Post by con's fly is open on Oct 20, 2005 17:51:14 GMT 7
The government just entitiled their new 5 year economic plan "Building a Harmonious Society". I'd suspect chin music, but they wager a huge amount of Face on these plans. If they don't alleviate poverty and start helping their helpless, they'll look bad.  |
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Post by Lotus Eater on Oct 21, 2005 9:40:36 GMT 7
I taught William Blake yesterday - Songs of Innocence and Songs of Experience. My take on the Songs of Innocence is that these are the pictures Blake paints for us of what we WANT to see and believe. The Songs of Experience are the pictures of the world that we don't want to acknowledge. To illustrate this I talked to the students about the beggars out in the street - we walk past them every few days.
If we truly believed that they were as poverty-stricken, as hungry and as badly-off as they present themselves we would be compelled to move out of our own comfortable existence and DO something.
But if we can comfort ourselves by saying they are part of a syndicate, they are actually richer than most others around us etc etc, we can assuage our consciences and keep walking to our restaurant to eat.
How good we are at painting the Songs of Innocence for ourselves.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Oct 21, 2005 22:21:02 GMT 7
I didn't know William Blake was still alive and in China. Sorry.
You know, I studied this exact poem at Uni (Romantic Poets) and I can't remember a thing about it. Got bloody well 95% too.
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Post by Lotus Eater on Oct 22, 2005 9:03:22 GMT 7
Sounds like you studied the Chinese way - just for facts for the exam!  |
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Post by Mr Nobody on Oct 22, 2005 23:12:00 GMT 7
Nah, did an essay; no exam, assessment only.
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Post by Lotus Eater on Oct 23, 2005 2:45:48 GMT 7
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Post by Mr Nobody on Oct 23, 2005 13:09:42 GMT 7
Now that cuts a bit close to the mark.
Although sometimes I write so well I astound myself - it feels like someone else is using my brain, and I have to sit back and admire it - other times I can tell it's only me, and sometimes I wince at my lack.
Reading it back later is the only way I can tell who was in control at the time. Fortunately, even when it is me doing the writing, usually it is not too bad. Competent at times, maybe.
Just not brilliant.
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