Homesteader or Cowboy?

[joe]

Based on Wild West types, homesteaders are people making a life in a house with (or without) a family.

The one aspect of the poll perhaps overlooked is that the primary distinction between the two is in their job. Cowboys focus on the job. Homesteaders focus on the culture, the people, the language, the experience, the glorious countryside, the wild mountains, making friends and building a place to live. That Homesteaders have so much going on is why y'all tend to think you're not homesteaders, but travellers, or ambassadors, or guests, or friends.

The poll is as two-valued as any focused distinction would be.

[Mr Nobody]

Gotcha.

By that defn, I am a homesteader, then.

But then, I like Planet earth, Even if I am only here for a short time - perhaps only 80-90 years. It's where I hang my hat.

Although I liked Non-Dave's image. Rogue Samurai type, or gunslinger, righting wrongs (in my case writing wrongs is closer) and generally helping out the farmers, although the rich guys tend to finance it, I guess.

I was thinking "cowboy" as in "yeehar, we are gonna rock this place, screw every damn woman in the place, then we are outa here."

And "homesteader" as in "this here is my home, yup, and I ain't goin' nowheres, nohow, nope."

How green is my cheese?

[Lotus Eater]

I'm still having problem with this. (Shades of some burke on the greasy whose name I don't remember!).

Cowboys focus on the job. Homesteaders focus on the culture, the people, the language, the experience, the glorious countryside, the wild mountains, making friends and building a place to live

I'm a bit like Lei Shan in this one. I moved lots as a child, so I figure wherever I am is home - and basically it is inside my head. The stuff I buy will either go into storage if I love it, or get given away if I just like it. So although I make my space as comfortable and welcoming as possible I don't see it as permanent or "homesteading' - not "building a place to live".

To me homesteaders also create their culture - often at the expense of the existing culture. (Check out the American Indians, the Australian Aborigines etc).

I'm not certain where I am going with this. Every time I read it I feel I am not expressing myself adequately!

Even when I travel to a country for a short holiday I try to learn some basics of the language - thank you, hello etc. Genuine basics. I try to learn about the culture and the history of where I am travelling and I really love the wild scenery, beautiful places etc. If I can spend time with the locals then I am happy - even if it is only for a few hours. I can't see that makes me a homsteader. I still email people I met while travelling - guides and the people they introduced me to.

Maybe in essence I am frustrated with labels? But if i have to ahve one - I'm sticking with nomad.

[joe]

There is a gotcha in the distinction. According to the wild west types both cowboys and homesteaders are a kind of coloniser, which I think no one really wants to be.

But because we all come here on the back on a particular product, the English language, how much at one with *their* culture can we be?

I guess that's what I'm getting at. Some can make a firm distinction and subsequent balance between the class time English world and the extra curricula Chinese culture experience, and others find the classroom to be their defining thing.

[Lotus Eater]

I'm not certain we can be at 'one' with their culture unless we learn the language - and even then we have the problem of dialects.

BUT - caveat here - please define Chinese culture for me!

Culture is a moving feast based on language, education, religion and social structure. It's expression is found in a system of shared values and norms that constitute a design for living.

Ask any of your students to define Chinese culture for you - there will be no real answer. "Oh our traditions" Which ones? The ones you grew up with or the totally different ones your northern/southern clasmates grew up with that you know nothing of? Which ones are still practised, what has changed between your generation/your parents generation/their parents?

All of these cultural bases and expressions are continually changing.

By being here we change the culture, by teaching language we change the culture, by encouraging discussion and thinking and argument we change culture. So we become part of the culture change - and become a little more 'one' with them and they become a little more 'one' with us.

How extensive is our influence - probably minimal on an individual level, but in total - cowboys and homesteaders and barkeeps, Sumurai and nomads, we change the culture.

others find the classroom to be their defining thing.

This kind I haven't met here yet - the teacher who is here solely to teach, not party, not travel, not meet the local girls/boys, not find the nearest bar, not convert others to their way of thinking/believing? A strange being indeed!

They surely can't be doing it for the money - Japan and many other places are better for that.

Their passion is to create the super-English speaker? Good idea!

But is it more likely that a person who is defined by the classroom is also not real in his/her own head? That the ego needs to be fed by adoring students looking up and breathing out reverentially at every profound utterance?

Are they so insecure that moving outside the nicely structured classroom with it's nice set of rules of behaviour and expectations is too scary for them? Meeting other people where they can't control the environment is too frightening?

Is it a desire for power and control over the hapless students in their classes because they have no internal ability to feel powerful?

I don't want to meet these people. Not here and not back home either.

[joe]

Yeah.

Or they could be trying to be good teachers.


I think Chinese live Chinese lives in China. If they learn English, they do so with, at best, Chinese purposes in mind. For them, as for anyone, language is a tool. But I think it's probably ridiculous to think that it opens up a brave new world for them; it opens up a wider Chinese opportunity for them. I don't think western values are transmitted with the language, at least because the language is rarely taught (successfully) in a western way. So whatever remains is valued in a Chinese way. The rest of it is up to them; and they don't often show themselves to be great and bold adventurers.

[Non-Dave]

For me the classroom is definitely not a defining thing - it's just a thing. I love teaching, and I enjoy some of my students, but I am definitely here in China for my own purposes and teaching English is merely a means to an end - albeit a petty cushy one most of the time.

I have no agenda in terms of changing the people or the culture. I'm happy to work with the students who want to work with me, and I hope they have the balls to find their own brave new worlds - but I don't expect to be the cause.

I consciously avoid "teaching" western culture. I don't think it's such a marvelous thing to start with and as I've travelled the world, like Lotus, I've always made an effort to learn the language, the local ways and show my respect for them as a visitor to their homes. I have a pet peeve about westerners who travel and loudly expect the rest of the world to accomodate us, speak our language, eat our food, put up with our rude and generally offensive behavior towards their "backwards" societies.

Ultimately I don't care too much whether what I'm teaching has an impact. I'll do the best I can to provide the information and create the environment for learning, the results are up to the individuals, not me. I'll learn everything I can, enjoy the experience and make some friends along the way. There's only one person I am responsible for.

Definitely a gunfighter....

[Lotus Eater]

We don't consciously teach 'culture' but as we teach structure, grammar, usage we are teaching culture by osmosis. As I learn Chinese I slowly gather an understanding of some of the culture of China - the logic, some of the thinking processes. These are part of culture. If I translate a poem, I am learning culture.

If we show movies we pass on some aspects of culture, we teach songs we teach bits of culture, we explain traditions etc we teach culture. Everything we learn changes us. Everything we teach changes our students - however minimally.

I do teach "British and American Culture" as part of my teaching subjects. I teach Film Appreciation, I teach British and American Literature - I am surely teaching culture. Even in my Technical Writing classes I am teaching culture - western structure, thinking and logical presentation. (Plus the perils of plagiarism!). My Oral English classes - this week I am teaching Australian and a couple of traditional Christmas/New year songs - culture. (6 White Boomers, Little Drummer Boy, Auld Lang Syne).

My students - despite their clearly professed love for their families - tend NOT to spend long at home during the holidays. They have changed too much from their total learnings to fit easily back into their hometowns. My Chinese teacher mates also spend as little time as possible with their parents. Their knowledge has changed them - they no longer fit into their old culture.

I don't believe we open up a brave new world for them - they are doing/will do that for themselves. But the changing China will be led by these students in 15-20 years time. We may have an impact - by virtue of our presence - positive or negative - in their lives.

I have no agenda (well yes I do - I want to encourage my students become creative, thoughtful, analytical people - they will be guiding this country and I want them to make GOOD decisions if China is going to be a major world power!!) But this doesn't mean that I expect or intend for them to be 'westernised'.

Or they could be trying to be good teachers.

. That would be the reason they give themselves. Sounds good - sounds dedicated - and covers maybe a multitude of less happy reasons.

But without freshness, interest in the world, interest in culture, food, people etc - I believe that no one can actually do a good job in any area (relationships included!). Staleness hits way too fast without any external interests.

Good teachers (good any workers) care about their work, but also know that neither they nor the students should be totally focussed on one thing to the exclusion of all else. Way too unhealthy.

Students can get sucked into it/pushed into it by parents, especially in China - but we have seen the misfits that creates.

And an adult who has already taken this path, should maybe, just maybe, ask themselves why.

[nolefan]

Maybe another interesting thing to do is compare how we view ourselves with how other look at us back home ( whereever home is). How many would agree with your choice and who would be right? We're all biased after all!

[Lotus Eater]

They all agreed with my choice when it was for one year. Having signed up for a 3rd year I am now getting the 'Don't you think it's time you came back to the REAL world?".

[nolefan]

that strange yet famous real world that everyone keeps talking about. You gotta love that!

I usually have that conversation about one every 2 or 3 months and it always goes along the lines of:

them: When u coming back to the real world?
me: let me ask you this: do you have a job?
T: yes
M: so do I. Do you earn a salary?
T: Yes
M: So do I. Do you have bills to pay?
T: Yes
M: So do I. Do you get 3 months of paid vacation a year?
T: N...no...
M: essentially, we both work, pay bills, earn a salary and I get to eat out as often as I like plus huge vacations.... This is the real world. Your is the pooty world.... hello? hello? you still there? don't you there hang up on me!!! Son of a gun.....

[Lotus Eater]

I haven't figured out the lure of long days, 5 days a week, plus commute through traffic, of always being on call, of not being allowed to move without my mobile phone on (aversion to this prevented me from getting one for 6 months after I came here!), of having interminable meetings, of writing paper after paper that I KNOW no-one will ever read. 4 weeks holidays, plus a few public holidays vs 3-4 MONTHS here?

OK - the toilets are cleaner and ALL have doors. The pay is better (but the prices are commensurately higher), I can understand ALL of the TV stations (but who wants to?), the weather is warmer (heat wave warning this week - but I like snow!).

On balance ....... HERE!!

[joe]

Trying to be a professional teacher, then.


Culture in language structure:

Ubiquitous Chinese grammar as English phrase:
"I'm going back / going back my family / going my family / going back to my family. I play / will play my brother."

No modal expressions other than "should" for suggestions and "shall" for invitation and "can" for causality:
"If we light fire, it can burn oxi-ox-osgen. You should take care. Shall we go now?"

Film Appreciation:
"Those foreigns so madders. Halli Botte is lovely. Fok U."

Or to put it another way, this language that we know and use with western cultural functions is being used to render Chinese cultural functions, partly by having been poorly taught, but partly also by natural virtue of it coming out of a non-Western mouth. The idea that when one is presented with something new, one finds a new value in it is a western idea.


Ask someone you know, "How have you been?"

[Lotus Eater]

We clearly have different students Joe - and different Chinese friends! My post-grads have written some sophisticated work in their Technical Writing class - including one surveying 2 universities students/teachers for cheating. Others wrote on language acquisition, another on the widening poverty gap. They can deliver these papers and impromptu speeches with general ease.

My Film Appreciation students are 3rd years, but are able to express themselves a little more coherently and cogently than those you quoted!

My 4th year Lit. students make some interesting observations and have good insights into some of the works we have read. They can also relate what they read to similar pieces in Chinese literature - and are a little amazed to find that the world in general has a certain similarity!

My Chinese friends are more than capable of asking me to do stuff with them/for them in a variety of ways - subtly and not so subtle! (me I need to learn to listen better!) And my colleagues and I spend much time correcting the translations in the text books they teach.

I didn't say

The idea that when one is presented with something new, one finds a new value in it.

- what I did say was that everything we learn changes us in some way - by virtue of learning it. Many things I learned I don't really find value in - but I know them and therefore I have been changed by that knowledge. It happens and isn't preventable.

If you go back to social sciences studies - the knowledge that you are being observed changes behaviour, even when you are asked to use your normal behaviour. Hawthorne studies gives the easiest to understand demonstration of the effect of interest in people. As teachers we observe our classes, we take an interest in them, we ask them to do different things - therefore we change them. We do not decide the direction of the change - but it happens nevertheless. All we can do is hope that the information we give, the interest we take, the way we behave impacts positively on our students.

But it DOES impact at some level.

Professional teachers are still not defined by the classroom. They are defined by their ability to be professional in the classroom and in their preparation. Their ability to teach professionally depends on their not becoming stale, their ability to understand and relate to their students, their awareness of the world the students will inhabit/are inhabiting. This all requires an ability to be part of the surroundings, part of humanity. Not closed off - not defined by the classroom.

I would still contend (she bows briefly to the Judge sitting at the Bench) Your Worship, that a teacher who is defined by the classroom has a strong sense of inadequacy that only the heady feeling of being in front of those less powerful can assuage.

[joe]

Ask all of them, "How have you been?"


But it's nice that there's Chinese who can put the language to that use. Of course I exaggerated some typical Chinese misuses of English, perhaps to point out that there is, or should be, a Chinese use of English, one that reflects their interests. In the past I've found it hard work teaching uses of English that reflect western (as reflected through me) interests.


On the "back home" perception, good question, don't know the answer, they never say. One thing I hear a lot though is "Oh, it's just like that here." They say that when I'm telling some Isn't China Crazy story.

[woza17]

Definitely Homesteader,
Bought an apartment Son has married a lovely Chinese girl baby on the way.
If I went back home it would be hard to find a job at my age. I have a certain amount of job security because I am perceived as a good reliable teacher.
After being here for more than 4 years i understand where my students are at and what is expected of me and I slot into the system well. I learn all the time about teaching it is such a creative thing to do.
In the little time I have with my students I know what I should concentrate on.
China is now my home. I meet such dipstick Fts here especially the bloody backpackers. They are really beginning to really piss me off. Leave without notice, complain all the time.

[Lotus Eater]

Woz - the backpackers are the ones I call cowboys - here for 10 minutes to use the system, no responsibility to anything or anybody, outa here the minute a new mate says lets travel to shenme shenme.

But I'm still not certain of the homesteader definition - my own psychosis against being tied down - I'm a nomad - I do what needs to be done and then move to the next necesary action. I spent 30 odd years being tied down - the quintessential homesteader. This is not a role I am any longer comfortable with.

[Mr Nobody]

I tend to be the same as lotus and woza - backpackers are my cowboys.

Joe, I know what you mean. However, the point of language IS culture. It is a social and cultural phenomenon. I think you are implying that already in your later posts.

As a professional teacher, recently in English in China, I find my job is not to teach specifics but to teach how the thing bloody works.

The student will learn their own way to make it work. Some good, some bad, mostly indifferent, but some will learn new ways that surprise us all.

[joe]

daoding said:

I tend to be the same as lotus and woza - backpackers are my cowboys.

Backpackers are my nomads -- their attachment is not to the place and not to the job, but to the movement.

[T]he point of language IS culture. It is a social and cultural phenomenon.

I worry about doing this, but I agree.

However, is the culture built into the language? Granted, a language, particularly in its semantics, will represent what the culture has carried with it. But as widely demonstrated by China, a person need not understand nor even use those semantics when using the language. They may even, and probably certainly will, use a totally different set of cultural constructs. The language mutates in the mouths of new users.

Also, as a semi-independent point, they certainly won't be using English culture if they're not using English grammar.

As a professional teacher, recently in English in China, I find my job is not to teach specifics but to teach how the thing bloody works.

The student will learn their own way to make it work. Some good, some bad, mostly indifferent, but some will learn new ways that surprise us all.

Contradiction?

[Lotus Eater]

Language is one of the four foundations of culture - a defining feature if you like. The nature of a language also structures the way the speaker perceives the world. Countries that have significant speakers of other languages (Canada with French and English speaking Canadians, Belgium with Flemish and French speakers, Spain with the Spanish and Basque speakers , Greek and Turkish Cypriots) have different cultures for those groups.

When we teach language, when we learn language we learn/teach part of the culture. We learn and use idioms - these a very specific cultural artefacts - impossible to make sense of when directly translated - but when explained and used, carry cultural constructs.

An interesting study was published in Germany (sorry I am going to cite my favourite source here - IRIS) - the German language is exceptionally precise and has the most number of grammar rules. During Germany's heyday as a major technical nation few Germans used other languages, and the German language had not imported many new words into it. However, more recently the grammatical structures have been 'loosened' and many imported words have been adopted - and Germany has declined as a technological innovator. The argument of the German linguist was that the previous precision of the language - the actual 'scientific-ness' of it enabled very precise and technical discussions and therfore innovations to occur. The loss of this precision has reduced the capacity for innovation. Interesting discussion.

However we don't only teach 'language' - with the language we teach (explain) aspects of the other cultural contructs - social structure (ie our way of being organised - individual/group, class system), religion (who hasn't talked a little about the national holidays and their intended significance?), the education sytem - and we try to teach within a western education construct. We question, we encourage students to talk in class. We push them to move away from their Confucian view of learning - we are the all-knowing masters they are the unknowing learners. When we talk about plagiarism, we are challenging a Confucian view of learning - to be the best learner is to reproduce exactly the works of the masters.

[Lotus Eater]

Ask all of them, "How have you been?"

today's answer: Not good - I have been too busy to do what I wanted to.

[Lotus Eater]

Ask all of them, "How have you been?"

Todays answer - "Good, I was offered places at 3 univerities in England. Thank you for your help."

Different classes - different students.

What were you looking for?

[woza17]

Last night I met a couple who want me to teach their 8 yo daughter who has been living in Canada for the last 4 years. Their big concern was that she has started to do literal translation from Chinese into English in her written journal that her mother has encouraged her to keep up.
Point being, it was so refreshing to speak to a Chinese person that could see that. I get a bit pissed off when I teach my students common phrases and they want to be smart asses or what and Chinglilize it

[Lotus Eater]

2 very interesting discussions tonight about language teaching. Firstly with my Chinese teacher - who is also a previous English major and now works for the university and teaches me as part of my deal with the uni. We were discussing the effect of teaching foreign language on thinking processes. Her view was that she has modified her Chinese thought patterns to include English processes, and she also stated that she had changed her Chinese language patterns and frequently and inadvertently used English grammatical constructions when speaking Chinese, i.e instead of Mingtian, ni qu nar? She now says, Ni qu nar mingtian?

2nd discussion was with other FT here - Japanese teacher who had spent the day at a Japanese teachers conference, in particular discussing the communicative method of teaching a foreign language. The presenters from Beijing were (obviously espousing the method) talked about the results they had. She felt that the most amazing results were not so much in the speed and fluencey of language acquistition, but in the students presentation of ideas. The students in these classes revealed incredibly personal information - that they COULD NOT reveal in Chinese. Changing language, changing mindset enabled them to talk more openly and honestly about stuff going on in their lives - that they had NEVER before spoken about in Chinese.

I know I swear better in Chinese - and I had assumed it was because I am emotionally distanced from the meaning - I never had my mouth washed out for saying tamade! But maybe because the changed mindset also allows me a different type of expression with the change in language.

Maybe this is also one of the (many) reasons that students and Chinese colleagues will tell us more than they ever tell their dorm mates/colleagues.

[Mr Nobody]

joe said:

daoding said:

The language mutates in the mouths of new users..

Part of my second point you quoted.

Also, as a semi-independent point, they certainly won't be using English culture if they're not using English grammar..

Learning, not using

As a professional teacher, recently in English in China, I find my job is not to teach specifics but to teach how the thing bloody works.

The student will learn their own way to make it work. Some good, some bad, mostly indifferent, but some will learn new ways that surprise us all.

Contradiction?

Nope. However, I am using the word works in a slightly different context. One is how the system works, the other in a more personal sense of making it work for themselves. We all use it differently, due to our own cultural/life experience/whatever context.

Note - I edited the quote thingy badly. I don't want to go through it again, so sorry, but I am sure you can work it out.