Eagle's Nest
Barfly
A self-portrait ... note that there is a mess of confusion in the swirling mists of "self"
Posts: 283
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Post by Eagle's Nest on Mar 22, 2006 22:34:15 GMT 7
Okay, I would like to bring some focus to my learning Chinese before I get to China besides going through the CD set I am working on. Now, I would like to know what the 10 most useful expressions you have need of in your daily life? With colleagues and supervisors at school? On the street? Travelling/touring? Socializing with local citizens?
Of course I will have to figure out pronunciation using the pinyin sound guide for now.
Thanks in advance on behalf of all of us on our way to China.
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Decurso
Barfly
Things you own end up owning you
Posts: 581
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Post by Decurso on Mar 22, 2006 23:11:46 GMT 7
By your posts I can tell you are already well ahead of the game.I have been here 10 months and I have only just begun to study Chinese.The key things are this...
1.NUMBERS!!Very helpful in bartering and understanding what you're being charged.Also good for learning months and days.
2.Duo shao tian?(Dor Show Chian..though that may be local)..how much money?
3.Food...look up the "What's Fer Dinner" Thread.There's a lot of dishes you can count on ANY restaurant serving.Knowing some food word will greatly enhance your dining experience.
Ni Hao,Zidijian,Xiexie,ect...
The rest depends on how much you want to learn.It most certainly isn't "survival" Chinese...your FAO or Chinese teachers will help you with the rest.
Don't worry too much about the tones either.It's all context.If you're not sure of the tone it's better to just say the word rather than mangling it by playing with tones.I know Chinese people who don't know the right tones for many words...they just say them and hope for the best.
I should point out..every city has it's own language as well as Pu Tong Hua.So if you're serious about learning Chinese be prepared to learn some phrases that are useless outside your Chinese hometown.
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gengrant
SuperBarfly!
Hao, Bu Hao?
Posts: 1,818
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Post by gengrant on Mar 23, 2006 1:45:59 GMT 7
and learn to say "WC, zai nali?" or simply "WC?" while grabbing yer crotch and dancing like an excited Panda. (or like George's AV duck)...
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Ruth
SuperDuperMegaBarfly
God's provisions are strategically placed along the path of your obedience.
Posts: 3,915
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Post by Ruth on Mar 23, 2006 7:01:41 GMT 7
I have to agree with Decurso on the numbers. Once I learned to count life got a whole lot simpler. If you will be shopping for veggies and fruit by yourself it is helpful to know that stuff is sold by the jin (1/2 kilo). Vendors will throw in one or two more of whatever you are buying to round it up to an even amount. When you say 'duo shao qian' they will respond with so much money per jin. In my newbie naiveity (how do you spell that word anyway?), I could never figure out how come the amount they told me wasn't what I ended up paying Sometimes fruit will be wu kuai yi jin - that is, you get 1/2 kilo for 5 yuan. I find I use gou le (enough - go la) a lot when shopping and of course tai gui le (too much - tie gway la). However, my pat phrases are still: I don't speak Han Yu, I speak badly, I don't understand what you are saying, Please speak slowly. Keep on with the CD program, you'll be way ahead of where I was when I arrived. Probably ahead of where I am now... Out in the street is where I need my Chinese language skills, and certainly while traveling, although my Lonely Planet Mandarin book has helped a lot there. At school my coworkers speak English to me, although I'm trying to get them to help me with my Chinese.
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Post by Stil on Mar 23, 2006 10:06:09 GMT 7
learning Pinyin helps especially with road signs. Hmmm a few more than 10 but you can choose. The first thing you should learn is 'ting bu dong' - I don't understand (for listening only) this will be the most common phrase you will say for awhile and will be your best friend. mei you - no have. This will be the most common phrase you hear in shops, it means 'I don't understand you', 'go away foreigner' or very rarely 'we don't have what you asked for' ni chi le ma? - have you eaten? You will hear this as a greeting. Just answer yes - chi le (if you really want to say no - hai mei you - still haven't) numbers ni hao - hello xie xie - thank you shen me -what wei shen me - why zen me - how shei - who dui bu qi - sorry zai nar (nali) - is/at where? ce suo/xi shou jian zai nar (nali) - where is the toilet? ni kan shen me kan - what are you looking at? zen me qu..... - how do I get to..... huo che zhan - train station qi che zhan - bus station yi yuan - hospital yi sheng - doctor yin hang - bank bu xing jie - walking street (usually the main shopping area) Zhe(i) ge - this Ne(i) ge - that duo shao qian - how much money jia na da - Canada Wo bu shi mei guo ren Wo cong jia na da lai de - I'm not American I come from Canada (maybe you should learn this first. shang ke le - class begins xia ke le - class is over bie shou hua - don't talk bi zui - shut up fu wu yuan - waiter/waitress mai dan - to get the bill pi jiu - beer (bing de) - iced ping - bottle qing zai lai yi ge - please, another one qing zai lai yi ping bing de pi jiu - another bottle of iced beer please (essential language in my opinion) mei nv - pretty girl ni hui shuo yingyu ma? - do you speak English nide yanjing hen piao liang - your eyes are very beautiful ni de dian hua hao ma duo shao - what's your phone number. xi tou fa - wash hair (you want to do this) an mo - massage (be careful where you ask for this - or not)
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Post by ladymel on Mar 23, 2006 10:35:45 GMT 7
Numbers and as Stil pointed out, the phrase "Zhe ge" (this), Ne ge (that)" combined with pointing, got me through most shopping situations in my first weeks. Also, as I learnt from my mistakes -- If you point at something and simply say "san" (three), the shopkeeper will usually give you three yuan worth of fruit, dumplings, bread etc. But if you "san ge", then they give you three things (eg three dumplings). I guess it's like saying "three of those". It sounds like you are gonna do fine Eagle. When in doubt let you fingers and "zhe ge" do the talking.
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Ruth
SuperDuperMegaBarfly
God's provisions are strategically placed along the path of your obedience.
Posts: 3,915
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Post by Ruth on Mar 23, 2006 11:17:04 GMT 7
Ladymel is right. Charades and a smile work wonders here. Stil - nice list There are a few on there I haven't mastered yet, but really need to. 'Don't talk' is one for my private kids. One of my students has learned how to say 'Be quiet'. Now he says it whenever I start to teach Last night I replied, 'but I'm the teacher, it's my job to talk' "BE QUIET" he screamed back. Not sure he totally has the concept yet.
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Post by Stil on Mar 23, 2006 11:24:49 GMT 7
One more important one i forgot.
Xie xie, xie xie, wo bu he bai jiu - thank you, thank you I don't drink white alcohol. (be careful with this stuff at first)
or if you can't manage to say that:
gan bei - cheers/bottoms up
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Post by Lotus Eater on Mar 23, 2006 13:24:07 GMT 7
Swearing is also useful - especially for taxi drivers from the airport. Other taxi drivers are usually fine!
Chi bao le - I'm full - no more food - very useful at your welcome banquet He bao le - no more drink - as above.
Qing wen - excuse me - usually when you want to ask a question.
Bu yong xie or bu xie - don't use thanks - automatic when people say thank you.
Fuwuyuan(r) - waiter/waitress - used for calling the wait staff over to the table for asking for the bill, ordering, getting more tea etc. Top lung capacity frequently required to make it heard over the noise.
laoshi - teacher. So unless you tell people differently they will call you Eagle laoshi.
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Eagle's Nest
Barfly
A self-portrait ... note that there is a mess of confusion in the swirling mists of "self"
Posts: 283
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Post by Eagle's Nest on Mar 24, 2006 1:27:29 GMT 7
WOW! This list is awesome and you people are something else. I am copying all you have to offer onto a word document for my "studying" purposes. Thankfully, a number of these words and expressions have already come up as I go through the lessons I have.
Now, I hope that this "Survial Chinese" expressions "advice" continues to pour out of your lived experiences for us newbies heading to China.
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Post by joe on Mar 24, 2006 8:57:17 GMT 7
Well, in that case,
no one says "duo shao qian?" (Though it is entirely correct.)
They say "duo-a-qian?" making sure they second tone (raise your eyebrows) the last syllable.
A guy once told me about anything in Chinese, make sure the tone on the first syllable is right, and make sure the tone on the last syllable is right -- the middle looks after itself. (In which case, "duo" is pronounced "door" and intoned a little higher than anything else you would ordinarily say.)
Useful also is "Ta ma de!" pronounced as "TA! ma! de." It's an expeletive. You'll hear it a lot in class if the boys are 10 years plus.
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Post by acjade on Mar 24, 2006 11:13:34 GMT 7
There's no flies on you. Ni ke bu sha.
Are you talking about me? Ni shi zai shuo wo ma?
Get outta here! Shao lai!
Do you think I'm stupid? Ni yi wei wo shi sha gua ma?
Hands off! Bie peng!
I'll see to it. Wo fu ze.
It's all Greek to me. Wo yi dian ye bu dong.
No kidding! Zhen de ya?
Now you're talking. Tai hao le.
There's no such thing as a free lunch. Tian xia mei mian fei de wu can
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Post by Dr. Gonzo on Mar 24, 2006 15:40:13 GMT 7
I hope you die: Wo xiang rang ni si. Only to be used as a last resort.
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Post by con's fly is open on Mar 24, 2006 18:19:29 GMT 7
GUO KAI! Piss off!
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Post by joe on Mar 24, 2006 19:43:57 GMT 7
"Piss off!" I've heard as "guan kai." And between friends it is shortened to "Guan!" and amounts to something like "Get the m'kay outta here!" with mock exasperation.
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Decurso
Barfly
Things you own end up owning you
Posts: 581
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Post by Decurso on Mar 24, 2006 21:38:37 GMT 7
NOW we're learning something.Thanks guys..I'll be putting all these into action.
I've just started studying Chinese seriously.My favourite sayings these days are..
Wo shi hai dao(I'm a pirate). Wo ye you er shir woo ge tai tai,woo shir haizi(I have 25 wives and 50 children). Wo bu gongzuo,taixiul le(I don't work,I'm retired).This one is almost true. Yammir(sic?)(real man) Wo tsao ni mama(I f***ed your mother) Zhe shi wo baba(This is my father)..usually used while in the company of a Chinese friend 10 years younger. Sha bi!(Stupid c**t).
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Post by Lotus Eater on Mar 24, 2006 23:30:56 GMT 7
Some of this depends on where you are as well. In Xi'an you can use duo shao qian, or duo qian.
Dialect is used by many if not most of the small market holders - in in Shaanxi the dialect changes the tones. Travelling south can be confusing if you are from the north - s and sh become confused as do z and zh.
In the south I am never certain whether they are saying si shi or shi si - 40 or 14.
Bejing ren add more of the er 儿 to word - yidian(r) - here they use yidian dian. Bian(r) is bian.
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Post by Norbert Radd on Mar 25, 2006 10:44:19 GMT 7
Pardon my pinyin and the mostly missing tones. xi [wash] shou [hands] jian [room] zai nali? Where's the washroom. I can't add much to the previous posts. I've learned the below here in Shenzhen. Simply ignoring most people works but for the persistent: dao 3 rao 3 Get lost. If no response or the tout continues, Ni de erdou bu ganjin ma? Are your ears dirty? Kan shen me kan. What are you looking at. This will usually get someone's nose out of your Chinese textbook. Bu guan ni de shi. It's not your business. For the "Hello-ers", start speaking to them in English. When they can't reply, you can say: Ni bu hui shuo inyue [English]. You can't speak English. Ni yao shou "Hello" weishenme? Why do you want to say hello? This will usually get you a torrent of excuses in Chinese. You can say Fei 4 hua 4. This translates as bullpoo. I hear this on the bus all the time and first learned it in Taipei. Simply ignoring most people works because I often commute alone and get hit up by all the Chinese "opportunity seekers". If you're with a Chinese, or someone that looks Chinese, e.g., Koreans, the hello-ers don't greet you, touts leave you alone, and most panhandlers don't ask for a hand-out. My neighbor tells me that he gets propositioned by pros a lot but they don't bother me. Maybe I'm not charming enough.
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Post by Lotus Eater on Mar 25, 2006 11:30:27 GMT 7
Mei you ling qian - I don't have little/small money works with the beggars.
I generally don't tell people to go away. But when I am with Chinese people and get approached by beggars, my friends will just tell the beggar to go home. Zou jiali. Apart from that I keep walking. I hate it when other westerners I am with push, hit or abuse them. Makes me angry and ashamed.
Bu yao deals with the touts, bu yao xie xie has them laughing - no-one says 'thank you' to them!
When people say hello to me I answer in Chinese - ni hao. Usually get a smile and a touch of friendliness. When I hear 'laowai' or 'waiguoren' I answer - "bu shi, wo shi Xi'anren, wo zhu zheli". Always gets a laugh and friendliness. (No, I am a Xi'an person, I live here). I also use this when I go to markets or shops that don't know me and bargain. Telling them I am a local helps immensely with dropping the price.
I've even used it in Beijing - telling the laoban of a very high priced pearl shop that I am a Xi'anren. He countered that I don't look Chinese - I countered that I was a Hui ren - he killed himself laughing and gave me what I wanted at the price I wanted and told me anything I wanted just to see him instead of the sales assistants.
Your learning should include as much friendly banter as possible - makes life way more interesting.
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Post by Stil on Mar 26, 2006 0:53:35 GMT 7
Clothes shopping
yifu - clothes (or in Chinglish - clotheses) jian - measure word for clothes yi jian yifu - one piece of clothing
da - big xiao - small chang - long, duan - short gao - tall, ai - short
geng - more zui - most ni you geng da de ma - do you have a bigger one? zhe jian (yifu) zui da de ma - Is this item (of clothing) the largest.
da zhekou/ da zhi - discount
Pretty much anywhere ask for a discount and remember that if they say 'ba(8) zhi' that means 20% off the price, qi(7) zhi - 30% etc
fa piao - receipt Wo bu yao fapiao, keyi gei wo geng da de dazhi ma - I don't want a receipt, can you give me a bigger discount?
Saying you don't want a receipt can knock the price down quite a bit (especially in restaurants)
Never bargain for a price of 250. I can't remember the meaning - foolish for some reason. Who can tell me?
If you say 245 or 255 they will know that you haven't just fallen off the maple syrup truck and have some knowledge of the customs. This makes them more inclined to drop the price.
Let the shop owners know you're a teacher. They will still think you are rich but not like a businessman and who knows, maybe you teach their child.
Wo shi [school name] de laoshi - I am a teacher at .....
Oh yeah, actually the first thing you should really learn is how to say your school's name.
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Post by George61 on Mar 26, 2006 1:57:53 GMT 7
Er bai wu....means basically "m'kaying idiot" Dunno why, I think it's just one of those sayings.
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teleplayer
Barfly
Ni3 you3 hen3 duo1 qian2. Gei3 wo3 yi4dian(r)3 ba.
Posts: 541
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Post by teleplayer on Mar 26, 2006 5:47:49 GMT 7
For Gengrant when Zhang Ziyi comes to visit.....
Zhuo1shang4 yan4wu3 nu3lang2 (table dancer) Zhuo1shang4 yan4wu3 (table dance)
Ex: Wo3 xiang3 you3 yi4zhang1 Zhuo1shang4 yan4wu3. (may want to check that the measure word is correct in this specific case. I'm not sure.)
Ladies, not sure if you can replace the nulang with nan2liang2 for your beloved Chippendales.
Kou3 mi4 fu4 jian4 (mouth honey belly sword) = backstabbers. Can also be Xiao4 li3 cang2 dao1 (smile inside hiding knife) The idiom story for these is great! One or two of you seem to have use for this word when dealing with some contracts and an occasional administrator or recruiter.
Zi4 xiang1 mao2 dun4 (Zi2 xiang1 together = yourself. mao2dun4 together = contradicting) thus Zi4 xiang1 mao2 dun4 said to one who seems to be contradicting his/herself.
For teachers. Wu3shi2 bu4 xiao2bai3bu4 (50 steps laughing at 100 steps)
One kid gets 69 of 100 on test and fails but remarks he's better than his friend who only got 52 of 100. No matter how you slice it they both failed. So the teacher/parent would say, "Wu3shi2bu4, ...."
Tie3 chu3 mo2 zhen1 (iron rod grind needle as "turn iron rod into a needle) for "persistence = results. Not sure if loosely could be "practice make perfect" but I'm sure you get the point.
Similar is Yu2 gong1 yi2shan1 (Old man Yu move mountain). Persisitence and sticking to a task, staying the course will get it done no matter how long it takes.
You all know the story of the 4 blind guys who each touched part of an elephant and based on this touch told what it was. One touched the belly, one the tail, one the trunk, one the leg. But it seems the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts and while they had reasonable descriptions of what they touched, they had no clue what the whole elephant was and got into a big fight over who was right. Mang2ren2 mo1xiang4 (blind people touch elephant).
My tutor from HK is teaching me these. They're fun but not sure I want you wankers to test me when I get there. Hopefully Babe and the expectant Ms. N can clairfy any of my errors.
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Quint
Up And Coming
How do I know this is true? By looking in myself.
Posts: 16
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Post by Quint on Mar 26, 2006 18:53:46 GMT 7
With the Mandarin Cantonese what do they speak in Shanghai? & where is the sort of boundaries so to speak of the different dialects,,, south north?
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Post by con's fly is open on Mar 26, 2006 19:04:43 GMT 7
Still North enough that it's Mandarin. I'm not sure where the Mandarin-Cantonese line is drawn. Mind, even within the "Mandarin Zone", the accents vary quite a lot. No one in suzhou could understand my Dongbei accent for the first month I was here.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Mar 26, 2006 19:14:36 GMT 7
It's more complex than that.
Every place in China has its own local dialects...a unified Chinese language is a fairly new concept and still a work in progress. Sometimes the local language applies to a region, sometimes a province, sometimes a city...sometimes just a neighborhood. Even Beijing has a set of local languages, none of which are Mandarin.
It's not just "north and south". Take two adjoining southern provinces...Fujian and Guangdong. Both are deep south, and the provinces do touch, but the local spoken languages are totally different and mutually unintelligible. Neither spoken language is anything like Mandarin.
Mandarin is the official language of instruction in schools all across China. As a result, most younger Chinese throughout China can generally speak Mandarin as well as one or more local languages. Older folks (maybe over 45-50?) may or may not speak Mandarin. If you go into the deep poorly-educated countryside or ethnic minority areas, you may find almost no one who speaks Mandarin.
The Rosetta Stone always has been and continues to be written Chinese...people from different places often communicate in writing although this is decreasing with time. Most Chinese TV is subtitled in Chinese to accommodate the differences in spoken language.
In Shanghai they speak Shanghainese. An hour up the railroad track in Suzhou they speak Suzhouhua. These languages are similar but not the same. In both places lots of folks speak Mandarin, but it's heavily flavored and doesn't always sound like Mandarin in the North.
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