Chian
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Aug 4, 2006 15:30:56 GMT 7
Post by Chian on Aug 4, 2006 15:30:56 GMT 7
EXCUSE MY FRENCH ARE YOU HERE TO CONTRIBUTE TO CHINA'S EDUCATIONAL DEVELOPMENT? ARE YOU A HERO? DOES ANYONE LOVE YOU FOR IT? [glow=red,992,300] OR [/glow] ARE YOU HERE TO HAVE A GOOD TIME, LEARN 200/300 CHINESE WORDS, SPEND 2 OR 3 YEARS AND THEN GO BACK HOME? ANYONE WORKING FOR LESS THAN 7000Y + WESTERN APARTMENT + ONE-MONTH BONUS AND OVER 20 HOURS PER WEEK SHOULD BE HELP held RESPONSIBLE FOR SUPPORTING SCHOOLS OWNERS - MANAGERS – PRINCIPAL – DIRECTOR'S RECKLESS BEHAVIORS TOWARDS FT !!!
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Aug 4, 2006 16:52:27 GMT 7
Post by Lotus Eater on Aug 4, 2006 16:52:27 GMT 7
OK Chian - how many do you ahve to tick to qualify? - I work in a government owned/run/supported university (one of the 211's)
- 12 hours per week - no office hours. BUT I do a lot voluntarily because I like the students and have always wanted to do a "good" job
- a large (enough to hold parties for between 40-60 people) 6 room apartment (counting the tiny bathroom/kitchen, but not counting the separate toilet with wooden toilet seat!)
- I get full pay for 12 months
- Return airfare every 12 months - or equivalent money
- They pay gas and electricity
- They provide computer and laser printer, toner, printer paper, 24 hours day cable internet access, microwave, washing machine, TV plus various sundries - ie rice cooker!
- Everything is fixed within minutes of asking if it is possible. If not - definitely ASAP.
- 2 hours free Chinese lessons each week - even during the holidays - although I am doing my own bootcamp and have put that on hold for now.
- I get a fair bit less than 7000
[/i][/b] [/li][/ul] Am I supporting reckless behaviour? I don't think so - I am happy with my working conditions (although I would never say no to additional money unless it involved additional work). But I have done the 10 hours a day, work your life away stuff for way too damned long to be in this for the money. I used to make a bloody lot of money back home. Quality of life is what is important to me now - and I figure I have it. They get what they need, I get what I want. I figure we all win.
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Decurso
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Aug 4, 2006 16:59:36 GMT 7
Post by Decurso on Aug 4, 2006 16:59:36 GMT 7
I have to toally disagree with this.7000 RMB is not a reasonable expectation in MOST cities.I get 4000..2 weeks paid holidays..free housing...airfare bonus(plus this year a 4000 re-signing bonus) and 16-20 hours per week(a lot less in the summer).This is quite good for this region...public schools and uni's here pay a little less..but the fringe benefits are better.
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Aug 4, 2006 18:06:10 GMT 7
Post by Raoul Duke on Aug 4, 2006 18:06:10 GMT 7
I can kind of see both sides here.
I personally wouldn't, indeed couldn't work for 4000 a month.
However, if you're in a uni or a public school, and you get a fairly limited schedule, and you get some other bennies to sweeten the pot, and you can live on this, it's not too horrible outside the biggest cities.
Working for ANY private school in ANY city for 4K a month is letting yourself get robbed. I put the limit more at 6K in smaller cities myself, but otherwise I agree completely with Chian here.
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Aug 4, 2006 18:31:47 GMT 7
Post by solongtinik on Aug 4, 2006 18:31:47 GMT 7
whew! this thread really triggers the envious side of me pips! im workin at a licensed/legitimate foreign lang school
i receive 3000 a month... 16 classes (maximum)...3 bedroom apartment with a non-functioning aircon...UNPAID summer vacation (though they Promised me a summer job which they eventually decided to stop! im broke this summer)...to top it all...a canadian co-teacher receiving 5000 rmb, whose only lesson is about TSANADArrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!
fair?
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Aug 4, 2006 19:23:11 GMT 7
Post by cheekygal on Aug 4, 2006 19:23:11 GMT 7
that is why i freelance...
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Chian
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Cool Raoul, Relax Max, Lucky Mary, ...
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Aug 4, 2006 21:50:30 GMT 7
Post by Chian on Aug 4, 2006 21:50:30 GMT 7
- I taught 6:40 per week, for a GOV run University by the name of Sun Yat-sen University to be précised... - Plus 1:30h English corner once a month - Plus one lecture every two months. - Half salary bonus at the end of each semester. - One full salary bonus at the end of each year. - You have seen the apartment, although the furniture were mine....... - Lived on campus, park, bamboos forest, trees, trails, ...... - 7 canteens, 5 restaurants, 3 minimarts, ..... - I paid for my utilities and my internet. - Because it was a REAL government run University, owned by Beijing, and located in Guangzhou, we only had 3 to 5 hours hours per day of English programs...... My salary was 8K. Dr. Sun Yat-sen, also known as Generalissimo Sun Yat-sen, revolutionized PRC’s education. - - - I have to go now; I need to get ready for tomorrow’s sidecar trip to the great wall, 9:00AM takeoff back 6:00PM.
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Chian
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Aug 4, 2006 22:02:01 GMT 7
Post by Chian on Aug 4, 2006 22:02:01 GMT 7
I omitted.... Plus modern classrooms, over head projector microphone, sound system, transparent, as well as a new office which I totally inugurated... ;D
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Aug 4, 2006 22:50:42 GMT 7
Post by Lotus Eater on Aug 4, 2006 22:50:42 GMT 7
My apartment is actually Russian built - for a general - is that still classified as western? They provided almost all of the furniture - I already had some, but could have lived comfortably without the bits I had. Furniture was 2 beds (single and king), plus new bedding, bedside tables, lounge suite, dining table and chairs, 2 large wardrobes and a tallboy, two decent sized bookshelves, 2 desks, chairs, coffee table, TV and 3-section stand, 2 separate landlines for phones, internet connection in all rooms except the kitchen and toilet - so I can work on my lappy in bed if so inclined. All main rooms are reverse cycle airconditioned and there is central heating for winter.
I don't do English corner. No lectures either. My classes are ostensibly 2 hours - but in reality 95 minutes including a 10 minute break - so 85 minute teaching x 6 per week. I design my own courses, choose textbooks/material and assessment program. I have post-grads who are great to work with, plus 3 classes of 4th years (2 x 25, 1 x13) and 2 (this semester) x 1st years. 25 per class again.
School facilities - 6 canteens plus a restaurant on campus, numerous small 'general stores', fruit shop, stationery shop, lovely phone man who helps me with any mobile phone problems I have and teaches me Shaanxihua at the same time, copy-shop (not that I use them - department will do my copying for me), dry cleaner, Post Office, Bank of Communications outlets - it's in reality a miniature town. 3 minutes walk to the university back gate and a plethora of restaurants, shops, service facilities, bus connections.
Dreadful commute of 3 minutes either through the gardens (roses, osmanthus, petrea, cassia, grape arbours) and past the fountain or beside the sports field with all of the jocks out there exercising. Majority of students (20,000/25000) are guys. 5 minutes walk to front gate and another range of buses to carry me the long 20 minutes into the city centre. Free bus from this campus to the new campus - 20 minutes - once per week - leaves 50 metres from my door.
I am able to live in comfort and save for travelling on the money I get paid. I'm with Decurso on this one - Xi'an is pretty cheap to live in unless you want to live a very "western" life (food, restaurants, alcohol etc).
I'm not here to volunteer or to be exploited - nor am I here to exploit.
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Decurso
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Aug 5, 2006 0:59:16 GMT 7
Post by Decurso on Aug 5, 2006 0:59:16 GMT 7
- I taught 6:40 per week, for a GOV run University by the name of Sun Yat-sen University to be pr‰[ised... - My salary was 8K. [/img] [/quote] Pardon my ignorance..but I don't know where Sun-Yat-sen Univerity is.If it's in Beijing...it's unfair to compare to wages in Beijing,Shanghai and other big cities to smaller cities.Frankly..I'd expect at least 8000 from a Beijing public school...and no English corner. How many jobs do you see advertised that meet your rather specific criteria?If it's a lot..tell me where..I'd like to see it for myself. And how is making 4 times the local wage for 75 per cent less work than the locals put in being taken advantage of?
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Aug 5, 2006 2:54:36 GMT 7
Post by MK on Aug 5, 2006 2:54:36 GMT 7
Salaries are all over the place in China at the moment - I know of qualified experienced teachers working in top uni's for 3,500 a month, and unqualified 'travelers' with the gift of the gab raking in +15,000 from language schools and privates.
A lot of it depends on how many hours you want to or are willing to work, but it can also depend on who you know, as a lot of plum jobs are passed on by word of mouth.
Another factor is that a lot of people aren't coming to China for the money. You get people who have had their 'career' back home and are just looking for something different. You get the religious types of course. And you get the people who really do think they helping the country along the road of development by accepting lower salaries - there was a link posted here recently to a private middle school in Hebei shamelessly trying to get people to work for free! (I wonder if they got anyone?)
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Decurso
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Aug 5, 2006 2:56:16 GMT 7
Post by Decurso on Aug 5, 2006 2:56:16 GMT 7
Re-read your post..it was a Beijing owned school in Guangzhou.
Dude..these jobs are not common.Congratluations for landing it..but don't put imply that this is standard.It's misleading.There is nothing wrong with taking 4k and fringe bennies in a city where the only higher paying jobs work you 26 plus hours a week.
Insinuating we are being taken advantage of is a little insulting.
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Aug 5, 2006 4:11:21 GMT 7
Post by Dr. Gonzo on Aug 5, 2006 4:11:21 GMT 7
I've been offered 15,000PM, tax paid, to go back to China to teach the South Australian Matriculation ESL course. Its not enough to disrupt my family's life and to pay the mortgage back home. These jobs are best left to singles and empty nesters.
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Aug 5, 2006 11:32:30 GMT 7
Post by Lotus Eater on Aug 5, 2006 11:32:30 GMT 7
Chian - you should have offered to teach a little longer - they clearly need more than 3-5 hours English program a day!
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Aug 6, 2006 7:30:25 GMT 7
Post by Missi on Aug 6, 2006 7:30:25 GMT 7
I'm with Lotus Eater on this one. I've worked the long 80 hour work weeks for a decent salary. My health was suffering and had no time to deal with other problems that I needed to deal with but kept on pushing them away. Came to China to try something new.
Here I still am, having just completed my fourth year and starting my fifth at the same school. I don't make anywhere near 7,000RMB a month. My health has improved (I might even make it to old age now!!!!), I am dealing with things I need to deal with and I am good at my job. I am here not to make the big money, if I wanted that, I would never have come to China. I am here because I enjoy what I do, and I hope that I can teach my students not to make the same mistakes that we have made. I just wish I could more of it. My headmasters have my respect and my loyality and my trust. I am not a foolish little girl who just gives people my respect, loyality and trust on first meeting.
So Chian, why are you here and how many positions can you find where they meet your criteria?
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Chian
Upstanding Citizen
Cool Raoul, Relax Max, Lucky Mary, ...
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Aug 6, 2006 15:09:47 GMT 7
Post by Chian on Aug 6, 2006 15:09:47 GMT 7
Okla! Triggers happy… - If you check again my introduction, you will realize that I setup a website for the student, on my own dim. - In two years at SYSU, I organized 7 birthdays... gifts included. - I gave away one mobile phone. - I loaded numerous canteen cards or/and bus cards, with 50Y or 100Y. - I gave away the entire kitchen, absolutely everything you can see on the pictures but the microwave...!!... Even the cat went! - When I had my motorcycle student borrowed it. When on east campus, some students have been using my second bedroom to do I still don’t know what... - I gave a motivation speech during fall 2004 when on East campus. 2000 students were about to go to war, because tired of living on a campus in total chaos… No street lights, no sidewalk, we had to cross a field to go to class, no internet, no library. They opened the campus to 2000 students, and it was only 70% completed… - I offered 3 bicycles. - I gave 100 of hours of free lessons. - I wrote 126 resumes during the month of June. - I had over those two years, hundred of students drinking my alcohol, playing my computer games, watching my DVD, … - My PhDs taught me how to play mahjongg, and I then became richer…. - I fully sponsored a student to go the USA; she was admitted with a two years free program. - I gave away my complete aquarium. - I gave counseling to two students about to dropout from the U. - One after his mother’s suicide, the other after his parents divorce. - We had one fatal accident on east campus, a 23 years girl died. There too, students came to my apartment for counseling. We talk about after life and ghost… - I bought numerous books for the genitors and the cook kids. - I gave hard cash. - I gave away my karaoke machine to a waiter. - I gave away the 7 speakers sound system from the pictures, to a friend from the PSB - I had over 45 students during my all English corners; other teachers from the same department had 6 at the most.... - I gave away all my booze to a cop from the CID. - I had over 100 listeners during my lectures, other teachers had 0, nada, zip, none, nothing, niet, mayo! - My lectures lasted between 3:40 to 6 hours, (well we had a movie in between the 6 hours one...) - I bought clothes, ladies handbags, sunglasses, MP3, … even shoes! - I paid for train tickets. - I offered jewelry. - I gave them my heart and soul. Few will come to visit me in Beijing. - I told them the truth, only the truth, but the truth about few “western worlds” ... … So yes, I gave more than my share of benevolence, free talks, generosity, father figure, you name it… This explain why the U was sorry to see me leaving, and why I was about to become the new Dean’s assistant on the FT side… Happy? ;D
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Chian
Upstanding Citizen
Cool Raoul, Relax Max, Lucky Mary, ...
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Aug 6, 2006 15:14:40 GMT 7
Post by Chian on Aug 6, 2006 15:14:40 GMT 7
OK Chian - how many do you ahve to tick to qualify? I get a fair bit less than 7000 Am I supporting reckless behaviour?... You lost me ...
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Chian
Upstanding Citizen
Cool Raoul, Relax Max, Lucky Mary, ...
Posts: 120
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Aug 6, 2006 15:59:06 GMT 7
Post by Chian on Aug 6, 2006 15:59:06 GMT 7
Dude.......don't put imply that this is standard.It's misleading.There is nothing wrong with taking 4k and fringe bennies in a city where the only higher paying jobs work you 26 plus hours a week. Insinuating we are being taken advantage of is a little insulting. www.google.comsun yat sen universityI do not see the correlation between Taken Advantage and Insulting...you... Are you creating difficulties where none are supposed to be? Funny how tired I am... When did I write “standard” ? I am a bit tired of those pompous FT, arriving here with their Grand Idea of superiority. Under the pretext of povrety they are giving themself away... No one here will never solve misery. The UN and so many others have been feeding African countries for 5 decades, and what go good came out of it? If you work for a Scholl located in a village, and where misery is not a word but becomes a cultural fact, then I see you as a benefactor. Do you know why business owners in PRC are making 100’s of millions of US dollars? It is because they pay their employees 600Y per month. Actually, they own their employees 3 to 5 month in back wages, making sure the employees keep working … does it sound familiar? Schools receive money from the Ministry of Educations. They have a budget. The laoban gives you what he wants from it… If you ever have the chance to talk to autochthones from the middle and upper class, you will realize that they are laughing at any FT making less than 7000. They see us as foreigners that come to eat in China because we cannot buy food in our own country… I helped formers MA students to find their first job in their field. I wrote numerous letters of recommendation. One is now a Lawyer Assistant, 10000RMB. Another became an Economy teacher, 4000RMB. Another is an accountant for the Government, 8000RMB. They are all straight from the U. 24 to 26 years old. Their first job ever. There are 20 apartments for sale in Shanghais, at 16 millions US dollars each! I have seen Lotus, Ferraris, Hummers, and last night a Navigator downtown Beijing. 8 miles a gallon in town goes the Navigator! Yes, people are poor, and it is not your fault, and you will never change it. When they find a “good apple” willing to work 25 hours for 3000RMB, why should they give more? Working under such a ridiculous (insulting) conditions hurts the Chinese people. The less the Laowais get paid, the less the Chinese get paid!I organized this thread by chinateachers.proboards17.com/index.cgi?board=jobinfoBecause in relation with the previous threads, where we disserted about working conditions… However Raoul moved it to When The Going Gets Weird, The Weird Get Going as he saw it more appropriate. Is that making anyone upset?
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Decurso
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Aug 6, 2006 16:36:43 GMT 7
Post by Decurso on Aug 6, 2006 16:36:43 GMT 7
Dude.......don't put imply that this is standard.It's misleading.There is nothing wrong with taking 4k and fringe bennies in a city where the only higher paying jobs work you 26 plus hours a week. Insinuating we are being taken advantage of is a little insulting. ] I do not see the correlation between Taken Advantage and Insulting...you... Are you creating difficulties where none are supposed to be? Funny how tired I am... When did I write “standard?? Insulting may be a bit strong..but when you suggest people are being taken advantage of it's easy to take it as also suggesting they are gullible and naive. I don't think you did write standard..I specifically worded it that way to point out to readers the difference between your OP(whih is strictly an opinion) and what people can actually expect.Don't take this wrong way..but the wording of the OP was a touch irresponsible.By this I mean a newbie could read this,take it as gospel and proceed to price themselves out of a lot potentially good jobs.Jobs with the conditions you specify aren't plentiful. I have to agree I don't like people giving themselves away...but what constitutes giving yourself away depends on the city,local wage,workload,benefits ect.For Hebei 4000 for under 20 hours is quite acceptable..especially when a middle class wage for Chinese is 1100.It is possible to get more..but you can usually expect to work a lot more than 20 hours. Not trying to create difficulty Chian.I just want readers see both sides of the story so they can judge for themselves.
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Chian
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Cool Raoul, Relax Max, Lucky Mary, ...
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Aug 6, 2006 17:04:10 GMT 7
Post by Chian on Aug 6, 2006 17:04:10 GMT 7
I understand Decurso. However the more the CCCP in paying for kids educations, the less the teachers are being paid. This missing money is going somewhere...
The reason for feverless lower salaries, the demand for teaching jobs...
When marketing myself to Beijing, I was offered +20hours, plus "one room", and 3000RMB, IN BEIJING!!! I TOLD THE BOSS OVER THE TELEPHONE: - "I SHOULD PAY YOU 3000RMB TO WORK FOR YOU" SHE MUMBLE THINGS LIKE SHE WOULD SEE IF SHE COULD PAY ME MORE, I THEN HANGED UP...
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Aug 6, 2006 17:19:34 GMT 7
Post by George61 on Aug 6, 2006 17:19:34 GMT 7
Chian, you are a native-spoker, ain'tcha??
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Chian
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Cool Raoul, Relax Max, Lucky Mary, ...
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Aug 6, 2006 17:23:20 GMT 7
Post by Chian on Aug 6, 2006 17:23:20 GMT 7
not at all and who cares.........
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Chian
Upstanding Citizen
Cool Raoul, Relax Max, Lucky Mary, ...
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Aug 6, 2006 17:36:26 GMT 7
Post by Chian on Aug 6, 2006 17:36:26 GMT 7
That is another major point, majority of FT use their NATIVE SPEAKER PASSPORT for all diplomas, experiences, qualifications, … give us a brake..
In my case I have a genuine MA degree, and studied psychiatry for 3 long years…
I also have this funy thing so called TEFL degree… Sure I could make an effort in writing English properly, sorry I am busy write now, will you try again later?
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Aug 6, 2006 18:06:00 GMT 7
Post by George61 on Aug 6, 2006 18:06:00 GMT 7
I'm not sure...I had to go back through a brazillion pages of "Introducing Me" to find out who you were/are. Still not sure. Not to worry, I'm sure you'll survive....even eating rats, cats and golliwogs.
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Aug 6, 2006 19:54:09 GMT 7
Post by Raoul Duke on Aug 6, 2006 19:54:09 GMT 7
But we'll gladly give you a brake if you'll tell us what you're trying to slow or stop. Car, truck, or train? Disc, shoe, or air? ABS or no?
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