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Aug 6, 2006 20:19:08 GMT 7
Post by Dragonsaver on Aug 6, 2006 20:19:08 GMT 7
In my case I have a genuine MA degree, and studied psychiatry for 3 long years… I have a genuine Master of Engineering degree. I studied Engineering for 7 long years. So what! Neither of these courses makes us better or worse teachers. It just says we studied and were capable of learning. A TEFL degree - A course in TEFL or a University degree in TEFL? My daughter informed me when I came home for the summer that my e-mails were written in 'Chinese English'. She said my grammar and verb tenses were similar to / sounded like a Chinese person speaking. So.... Writing English properly is ... well a 'relative' thing. We normally don't criticize others on this board for their spelling and grammar. Chian lighten up a little. We are all here doing our best. On this board we are friends so when we discuss things we are passionate about we still try of phrase these passions so we don't 'ruffle' the feathers of the other members. Have a beer - George is buying
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Aug 7, 2006 5:41:45 GMT 7
Post by George61 on Aug 7, 2006 5:41:45 GMT 7
I do.....it's my job!!! How else do you reckon I got to 6000+ posts? It's a big job!!!
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Aug 7, 2006 6:59:14 GMT 7
Post by Missi on Aug 7, 2006 6:59:14 GMT 7
ummmm..... you have a lot to say?
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Aug 7, 2006 7:53:34 GMT 7
Post by George61 on Aug 7, 2006 7:53:34 GMT 7
Nobody says more than I do!
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Escaped Lunatic
Barfly
Civet Burger? Sounds tempting. Can I get fries with that?
Posts: 567
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Aug 7, 2006 8:16:18 GMT 7
Post by Escaped Lunatic on Aug 7, 2006 8:16:18 GMT 7
>>How else do you reckon I got to 6000+ posts? It's a big job!!! And all this time I thought it was because you needed to get a life didn't have any fun hobbies. "Who could ever believe such a calamity. I've got too much time on my hands." - Styx
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Aug 7, 2006 18:15:10 GMT 7
Post by cheekygal on Aug 7, 2006 18:15:10 GMT 7
Native or not - either way we make mistakes. I know only few people (both Native and non-) who can speak/write perfectly in English and have an excellent sense of the language and linguistic aspects. It goes for any other language. Being a Native speaker doesn't protect you from making mistakes but still there are some advantages of being a Native speaker of any language.
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nolefan
Barfly
Quod me nutrit, me destruit!
Posts: 686
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Aug 7, 2006 20:21:50 GMT 7
Post by nolefan on Aug 7, 2006 20:21:50 GMT 7
Nobody says more than I do! George...george...george.... those weeks at camp donguano have softened you up... you'd never leave yourself open to comment with such statements before you left......
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Aug 7, 2006 20:42:40 GMT 7
Post by cheekygal on Aug 7, 2006 20:42:40 GMT 7
here's what i learnt so far: 1000 - 2000 you master your typing skills 2000 - 4000 you improve grammar and spelling 4000 - 5000 you slowly forget how to talk 6000 + you develop an instant immunity to the comments due to the addiction to the Saloon
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Aug 8, 2006 4:10:31 GMT 7
Post by Stil on Aug 8, 2006 4:10:31 GMT 7
EXCUSE MY FRENCH ARE YOU HERE TO CONTRIBUTE TO CHINA'S EDUCATIONAL DEVELOPMENT? ARE YOU A HERO? DOES ANYONE LOVE YOU FOR IT? [glow=red,992,300] OR [/glow] ARE YOU HERE TO HAVE A GOOD TIME, LEARN 200/300 CHINESE WORDS, SPEND 2 OR 3 YEARS AND THEN GO BACK HOME? ANYONE WORKING FOR LESS THAN 7000Y + WESTERN APARTMENT + ONE-MONTH BONUS AND OVER 20 HOURS PER WEEK SHOULD BE HELP held RESPONSIBLE FOR SUPPORTING SCHOOLS OWNERS - MANAGERS ?PRINCIPAL ?DIRECTOR'S RECKLESS BEHAVIORS TOWARDS FT !!!m'kay you! I work for less than that. Am I hurting your pay? You want to come and see me in person and do something about it? I live at #2 middle school, Hunan, Changsha, Liuyang county, Dayao town. I like aggresive little m'kayers like you! That is another major point, majority of FT use their NATIVE SPEAKER PASSPORT for all diplomas, experiences, qualifications, ?give us a brake.. In my case I have a genuine MA degree, and studied psychiatry for 3 long years? I also have this funy thing so called TEFL degree?Sure I could make an effort in writing English properly, sorry I am busy write now, will you try again later? I don't have an MA. Do you speak English better than I? Are you a better teacher? You da man Chian! Where is your Ma from? Can I get one too?
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Aug 8, 2006 6:28:24 GMT 7
Post by Dr. Gonzo on Aug 8, 2006 6:28:24 GMT 7
Whilst sympathising with Stils point of view, this topic is being locked until cooler heads prevail. Please PM me to discuss this: and no, this isn't a Dave's moderator invitation, whereby you get terminated should you take the offer up.
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Aug 10, 2006 14:53:15 GMT 7
Post by Dr. Gonzo on Aug 10, 2006 14:53:15 GMT 7
Open for business folks. I believe Raoul will soon set up a library thread for this kind of discussion.
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Aug 10, 2006 17:04:29 GMT 7
Post by Dajiang on Aug 10, 2006 17:04:29 GMT 7
The salary issue tends to spark heated debate anywhere eh.
anyway, imho there really is no market rate. Everyone of us comes here and has to fend for him or herself to get the best deal there is. There is no standard, also because the quality of teachers varies so incredibly much. It seems that in countries like Japan and Korea (though I haven't been there yet) there is more of a level playing field for FT's, and you sort of know what you're up against. In China as we have all experienced it's always a matter of bargaining and arguing, which sometimes results in a couple of us being screwed. Now that's real market dynamics for ya eh.
It's all relative anyway. I don't make 7000, but I can save a few thousand kuai every month. I can support a royal lifestyle for myself, and my girlfriend, with my own apartment in a beautiful part of town, etc etc. So, how much you spend is equally important to how much you earn.
Anyway, I suppose my point is that we all have the responsibility for our own salaries. And if someone is frustrated with his or her salary, then in the end it's really his or her own fault. Just another learning experience eh. I don't care how much or little others make really. None of my business anyway. To say others are driving the standard down isn't really the case, cuz we're all in such different positions and cities. Like compairing raisins to dingleberries. I live in a city which is flooded by foreigners nowadays, and sure that drives salaries down a bit. But I'm still making 3x as much as most Chinese with a decent job somewhere, and that for 15 hours a week. Just prove that you're a professional, and you get what you deserve. (which doesn't mean that some 'unprofessionals' don't get what they don't deserve...)
Dajiang
ps kokopelli, how can your previous company still screw you when you've quit already? Any luck yet?
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Aug 10, 2006 17:29:18 GMT 7
Post by Raoul Duke on Aug 10, 2006 17:29:18 GMT 7
There is now a thread in the Library. If you'd be so kind, please copy some of this useful stuff over where it will stay useful a long time? Thanks!
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Crippler
Barfly
Beware the conspiracy!
Posts: 345
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Aug 13, 2006 15:07:45 GMT 7
Post by Crippler on Aug 13, 2006 15:07:45 GMT 7
That is another major point, majority of FT use their NATIVE SPEAKER PASSPORT for all diplomas, experiences, qualifications, … give us a brake.. In my case I have a genuine MA degree, and studied psychiatry for 3 long years… I also have this funy thing so called TEFL degree… Sure I could make an effort in writing English properly, sorry I am busy write now, will you try again later? Well now that we're bragging, I have a Doctorate in Psychology, practiced as a psychologist for 15 years, and can even spell in English. I have also had at least 3 careers including owning a zoo and being a professional wrestler. The zoo ownership has maybe been the most helpful. For the life of me, I can't figure out where the hell how much you make decides whether you are being taken advantage of or not. Some of us are adults and make choices for more complex reasons than simple monetary gains.
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Aug 13, 2006 17:10:57 GMT 7
Post by solongtinik on Aug 13, 2006 17:10:57 GMT 7
should we even brag crip? we could claim to be somebody but being somebody isnt important we're all in china now and we know how the feckin' system work here.
being taken advantage and being insulted is a prevalent unspoken revenge from chinese to english speaking homosapiens...oooppppssss...maybe not all of 'em...ope so!
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Aug 13, 2006 21:38:23 GMT 7
Post by Lotus Eater on Aug 13, 2006 21:38:23 GMT 7
If you are making more than the locals with the same qualifications, and working less than we can't really claim to be being taken advantage of. All bosses make more than workers - here, home country, anywhere. The bigger the company the more the boss earns. So at home if you aren't earning near the bosses pay - are you being exploited?
Working in China is a choice we make - and we know how much we are going to be paid before we come. What we aren't certain of is how easy/hard it will be to live on that money - and that is dependent on partly ourselves and partly where we are.
I haven't worked in a university yet where the pay rate is the same for all foreign teachers working there. White faces or no. The negotiation part is up to you, but feeling exploited is personal.
We do what we want to because we want it. I'm here because I am exploiting an opportunity to live in a different country, be paid enough (nowhere near the OP's amount) to live and travel on, while doing a relatively small amount of work. I did the big pay/hard work thing - and am not interested in that life any more.
Others will come here because of a whole variety of reasons totally unconnected with money - and in many cases totally unconnected with work - the work merely happens to be the sideline that keeps them eating while they chase whatever other part of the dream it is that brought them here.
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Aug 16, 2006 9:43:35 GMT 7
Post by Mark FJ on Aug 16, 2006 9:43:35 GMT 7
i get somewhat more than 7k a month, but my deal is kindergarten. working hours 830-5 weekdays, nine weeks paid vacation. but kindergartens really need people that can work with kids, its a hard job.
ive done the privatge school in small town for 6k- a great time and i saved tonnes. the culture of eating /drinking really wasnt worth it thou so i needed to change quickly.
ive done 4.5k in Suzhou, not so much fun but workable, at a govt uni. i have to say my health was best at the govt uni for 4.5k a month, living in a hotel.
but as i go into my third year at the kindergarten, im loving it. the new teachers / phillipinos get a lot less than me, but i really do work hard and i think i might just be worth it.
i have a dream that i'll go to my wifes really small home town and open a school, the fresh air, the friendly people...no western restaurant to over charge me for beer/food...
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Aug 16, 2006 9:52:17 GMT 7
Post by solongtinik on Aug 16, 2006 9:52:17 GMT 7
MARK FJ >but as i go into my third year at the kindergarten, im loving it. the new teachers / phillipinos get a lot less than me, but i really do work hard and i think i might just be worth it.
it's filipinos.
i just hate this idea...filipinos receiving lower than native speakers...i consider this as a "asia vs. phils" it's a descrimination within asian race...we experience that in korea, japan and thailand too!!!!!!!
but, unlike "other" foreigners who pretend to be immigrants of <hell>, we are proud to be filipinos...
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Aug 16, 2006 19:22:34 GMT 7
Post by solongtinik on Aug 16, 2006 19:22:34 GMT 7
love u for that kkp!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Aug 16, 2006 20:50:44 GMT 7
Post by Mark FJ on Aug 16, 2006 20:50:44 GMT 7
just saying like it is...
i feel guilty too, but what- should i hand back the cash...? me thinks no.
too be fair they get more in their second year too, market rate increases, and seem really happy.
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Aug 16, 2006 23:48:33 GMT 7
Post by Raoul Duke on Aug 16, 2006 23:48:33 GMT 7
I've had the pleasure of meeting two very nice Filipinas her in Suzhou within the last couple of weeks. Both have gotten reasonably decent jobs here and receive exactly the same pay and treatment as their Western colleagues. So it can be done. Hang in there! Last night one of them was talking about a teacher-recruiting program that's been active in the Philippines. The more she told me, Solong, the more certain I was that it was the one you went with. The word was pretty horrifying...we gotta get you into something else! I'm trying to get both these ladies to join us; when they do you guys can compare notes. Why do so many of these schools pay Filipinos etc. so much less? Same reasons they pull all the other weasel crap they do: 1) It means more money for themselves, and 2) They think they can get away with it. Sadly, they're usually right about that last part.
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Aug 18, 2006 16:32:05 GMT 7
Post by solongtinik on Aug 18, 2006 16:32:05 GMT 7
dont worry raoul, the guy who helped me came here isn't as evil as those people mentioned to u...but actually, among his recruits, i was the only one whom he sent to a better place... he's recruiting place is near the broadcasting (top in my country) i worked for before...it scared him maybe...
but, im still lookin for a better workin environment...im still under the agency...they're taking 2K rmb from my orig'l rate...
thanks for being nice o filipinos/filipinas!!!
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Aug 18, 2006 21:41:00 GMT 7
Post by solongtinik on Aug 18, 2006 21:41:00 GMT 7
chiz!kkp, what a nice guy?!?!?!
i
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Aug 19, 2006 0:50:19 GMT 7
Post by Raoul Duke on Aug 19, 2006 0:50:19 GMT 7
Teacher solidarity is the most potent potential weapon we have and in many cases is the only way you can ever get anything to actually change. Many schools will happily play games with a single teacher, but nearly all will back down when faced with the loss of their entire foreign teaching staff. This "all hang together or all hang separately" relationship isn't always possible to build, but pretty powerful if you can get it. Good on ya, Koko.
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