NEED QUICK HELP :o

[Meihou Wang]

I've got to give this school an answer this evening (within 2 hours or so..)

Web Intl in Ningbo wants me to come over on an F Visa, to convert later--

I know there is likely much discussion on this, but alas I haven't found my answer.

SO..

Has anyone ever been SCREWED coming over on an F Visa? What's the risk? I know I am naive--any help is much appreciated!



Their offer: the job i want, the place I want, F Visa to arrive, Z Visa later.

Is this a bad idea? If so, why?

Any inut helps!!

[Mr Nobody]

I have heard that Web Intl has a good rep. Did you google?

[Missi]

Its not suggested that you come over on a tourist VISA. BUT; since there is less than a week or so there would be no time to send you all the documents from China to where you are.

So coming over on an F visa would mean that you have to makea trip to Hongkong to get one. So make sure that the school is willing to pay for the trip to Hongkong, get it in writing AND in your contract. You would probably have to sign a contract before you come over and again when you get here. So make sure that it is in both.

Hope this is the info that you are looking for.

[Meihou Wang]

Thanks for your comments--It does help--quite a bit in fact!

Also, what do you think of this:

"... You may apply for a Multiple Entry "F" Visa valid for 24 months, if

(1) you submit documents which certify you have made an investment in China, or have established a collaboration with a Chinese company, e.g. business license, contracts, a letter of appointment, etc. ..."

TIA--

~N~

[solongtinik]

MW,

i'm an F visa holder and haven't screwed up yet.

my friends adviced me to have a residence permit if i have f visa in that way the police won't question me much and i could go out of china anytime and come back without too much hustle.
but is suggest that u insist your school to change you visa to Z asap!

i'm in that crisis right now but my school is tryin their best to fix it...i hope they could...
or else im gonna be facin' a big prob in my country...

best of luck fella~

[Meihou Wang]

thanks--

Now they want me to come over on the L Visa and change to an F Visa (!?)

Heh? That makes no sense, other than giving the school a much easier out if they begin to rethink our 1 year contract.

Keep me posted, I'll do the same.



*~Meihou Wang~*

[Missi]

COme over on a tourist VISA and change it to a work VISA when you go to Hongkong. I can't remember F,Z or L. When you get your work VISA the new law is that it sa multiple entry VISA.

As I said before you school should be paying for you to get it.

[Dragonsaver]

Come over on the 'L' but demand that you get a 'Z'. It is not legal to work as a teacher on an 'F'. Some schools try it but it can get you into trouble and I dodn't think you can get a Foreign Experts Certificate on the 'F'.

Raoul will tell you the same thing, and there is a thread somewhere about this.

[Mr Nobody]

I have come to the conclusion, perhaps eroneous, (yell at me anyone if I am wrong) that the actual visa is irrelevant compared to the residency/work permit.

Now I look at it, I came on a tourist visa (I was having a 3 month holiday/pre-honeymoon and looking for work, then found it) but I have a perfectly valid residency permit which seems to be the whole thing. Once you have that, the visa is bugger all. It seems to be just for entering the country. The residency permit is the key to staying here and working legally.

There is no z in my passport and the tourist visa expired a year ago, but I have all the other stuff - foreign experts cert, residency etc etc etc. And it is all legal and above board. I come and go in and out of the country without problems.

However, I understand that some schools can't do that, or won't.

Correct me if I am wrong.

[Raoul Duke]

Yeah, this is getting weirder as it goes.

People HAVE been burned coming over on something short of a Z visa, but it's usually OK to do this.

Tell them that you'll come over on an L or F visa, but only if they will guarantee in writing an upgrade to a Z and a residence permit. Furthermore, they will guarantee to pay ALL costs of the conversion, including a trip to HK if necessary. They will pay it all as you go...no "you pay now and we reimburse you" crap.

As for an intermediate conversion of an L to an F, tell them NO WAY unless they can come up with a very compelling reason for it. If they do indeed plan to give you a Z, there should be no need for this...you're right in thinking it makes no sense. If an F is easier to upgrade, you can just come over on an F in the first place. I smell a rat with this one.

I also don't like the idea of them pressuring you into a 2-hour decision. Could well be a strongarm tactic to pressure you and to keep you from finding out info such as this visa deal.

Odds are they need you a lot worse than you need them. I would consider telling them that you want time to consider the other offers. If they can't cope with it, they should hire someone else. NEVER start a job here with them pressuring you into anything!

[Raoul Duke]

daoding said:

I have come to the conclusion, perhaps eroneous, (yell at me anyone if I am wrong) that the actual visa is irrelevant compared to the residency/work permit.

Bingo. The residence permit is the really important document for people working and living here. The visa only gets you into the country; the Z visa is only a gateway to the residence permit.

[Mr Nobody]

Hey, I am becoming an expert! I was right about something I understand nothing about that is as mysterious as chaos theory as applied to the stock market, the quantum dynamics of Bose-Einstein matter or women's behaviour.


Maybe the visa is more like it describes your intent when you enter the country and your purpose. For about one month I was working on my tourist visa while they were sorting stuff. I was worried, got cranky etc, but it was that they didn't want to cancel the remainder of a valid visa - not the college, the visa office! - but the paperwork had gone through and I was a working resident, but just didn't have the stamp on the passport, or the pass port in my hand. I was worried, I can tell you, thought I was going to have one of those nightmare stories you hear about.

Bloody hell, I thought, but ended up with it in my hot little hand a few days later. Happy chappy since.

[Lotus Eater]

The absolutely best option is to come over on a Z visa - if you have a contract or letter of offer of offer you should be able t get this from yuor Chinese consulate/embassy. The new Z via automatically becomes a residence permit once you are here, with unlimited entry/exit options.

[solongtinik]

people around me told me L to Z is easier than F to Z...

might as well think twice,this thing is getting confusing..
are they gonna pay for your visa? heard the gov't is getting stricter with visa issues...

[Raoul Duke]

Coming in on a Z is definitely best if you can arrange it. Doesn't always work out that way.

You hear lots of speculation, and it is indeed very hard to call. Much depends upon whether or not the visa agent got laid last night. I've also heard that Fs are easier and Ls were almost impossible to convert.

My advice is to focus on the place and moment at hand. Ask the school which they'd rather convert to a Z- L or F- and come in on that one. Changing to something other than a Z upon arrival is ludicrous.

[Lotus Eater]

If you have a letter of offer from a Chinese institution you "should" be able to take that to the Chinese embassy and get a Z visa before you leave.

My first uni sent a letter of offer. I sent it and the application for a visa to the Chinese embassy in Oz, and was given Z visa immediately. Since then I have had it renewed - by the univeristies - twice without having to leave the country or heading for HK. It will happen again in 2-3 months as I renew for a 3rd year here - in this institution. Also do not believe the tale that unviersities or other institutions cannot take you for more than one or two years. If they like you - you can be here forever!! One person I know has taught in the same uni for nearly 30 years!!! The uni has now given him a 'green card' so he never has to renew his visa again. He is 87!! Others have been in the same university for several years - NO problem.

[Missi]

Ok, since Jan 1 2005 China's law regarding foreigners and VISA's has gotten really confusing. This law was put in place to stop foreigners coming to China to work on a toursit VISA and changing it once they got here. Spent last night with some friends from Foreign Affairs and we talked about this. So, from what I see you have two options.

1) come to China late. It will only be a few weeks, BUT you need to get an official letter of invitation from the State Foreign Affairs Office (its reall quite pretty, butter cream yellow coloured paper, official number, stamped- it really looks similar to a certificate), a copy of the State Foreign Affairs contract. numbered and stamped, then you can go tot he VISA office to get the work visia. All these documents must come from CHINA EMS'd (really fast mail which will probable get lost first), and you take everything to the VISA office. In getting the work VISA you need a medical from a Chinese Consulate appointed doctor. You must get a copy of the medical form from the consulate (its new and improved four pages) and have it filled out by the approved doctor.

This way the school doesn't have to pay for the cost of you getting the VISA if it is done in your home country. They will pay for the experts certificate. You are looking at a few weeks of running around and waiting for the paperwork from China, and from the VISA office and docotors office.

I was told that there have been some problems in China with the medical certificate from your home country. I may be mistaken- and correct me if I am wrong- but a few foreigners have had to get another medical once they got to China for the medical certificate. Any word on this?

2) Come over on the toursit VISA. The medical you can do in China, it takes about 30 minutes or so and is 500kuai. You wait two days for the results then get your medical certificate and go to Hongkong with all the paperwork to get the new VISA. Then you come back and get the Experts Certificate. The school should pay for this unless you have told them you are willing to come over on a tourist VISA, or if the school wants you here now now now, then they should pay for it.

If the school is pressuring you for an answer I would say no. If this is the way they are now, what will they be like whe you get there?

Hope this helps

[Mr Nobody]

Medical cert.

What missi said is right about the appointed doctor.

However, I have been told this as an alternative for people who can't get there:

Needs a red stamp and for it to be in chinese. Usually have to renew in the country, BUT if you know a chinese doctor with a chop, I understand that you download the chinese form, get the doc to fill it in.

Q3 Are you mad? no. (this is what we call a LIE. You are coming to China to teach. THe answer to this question is obvioulsy YES, but lie here. It is mandatory.)

Q4 Are you perverted, such as having tattoos and piercings? no

Q5 Do you have any sick western diseases to give to our lovely locals, like HIV, Tuberculosis or rabies? No.

etc.

Then he stamps it etc, and they often wear it. I am told. I don't know for sure if this is true.

Otherwise, they get you to do another one - takes less than an hour easy as pie, and they pay for it. They might anyway since they don't trust modern foriegn docs with all that ejamacation, valid degrees and stuff. It cost 400 RMB where I am.

[Lotus Eater]

I had the medical back in Oz apart from the expensive things - like ECGs etc. It did prove I wasn't mad. Then when I got here I had it all over again - paid for by the university - because the Chinese Doctor in Oz I went to hadn't stamped OVER my photo - so I couldn't prove it was about me. It could have been any other non-mad Aussie of my weight, height, colouring, scarring etc etc.

I've changed universities and they did not require me to have another medical - didn't even bother to look at the papers I had proving I was sane.

However when I entered a marathon I had to have a medical - again paid for by the uni - to demonstrate that I wasn't going to drop dead pottering around the 5 kms I entered in!

[Meihou Wang]

Thank you all for so many useful and informative posts about this ever-confusing subject.

To clarify: It was not the school in Ningbo pressuring me to committ within 2 hours. The more persistant school is in Harbin.

Needless to say, I rejected Harbin and went for Ningbo, after some negotiation and much deliberation.

I'm supposed to have the letter of invitation tomorrow--I'll keep you posted. So that means I'll be getting the F Visa, to be converted to the Z w/residence card, etc asap by the school.

More later--
*~Meihou Wang~*

[Da Dan]

the part about;

the F visa for 24 months....

Why might they sugest this instead of a cheaper shorter time visa?

[George61]

when I entered a marathon I had to have a medical

That alone proves your insanity!!

[Meihou Wang]

danny said:

the part about;

the F visa for 24 months....

Why might they sugest this instead of a cheaper shorter time visa?

The 24 month F VISA question wasn't much more than my own curiosity. I opted for a 6 month multiple entry F to start, to be converted to Z later.

I bought my ticket, folks.

See you at the end of the ride,

*~Meihou Wang~*

[solongtinik]

MW,
so where in china will u heat ur ass?

our incharge cant convert my F to Z...they've tried but they said the regulations have changed...hope its different in ur case...

way to go!