Chaos in Changchun

[Digital Diva]

Okay, I'm a newbie to the saloon, but not to china, well a year isn't all that long, but still... I've got a major problem and don't know how to deal with it. It's long, please bear with me, you need background I think to give me good advice.

I am at a crap Uni in Changchun, with brand new apartments which went up at the speed of light last year, sounds good. Problem is they are so full of mold that I actually got sick in May, VERY sick. (and just for the record I have never been one of those people who claim environmental health issues). I could not hold a conversation, I had headaches joint pain, all kinds of problems which are not the norm. I chalked it up to being in China and the sickness that Expats often get when new, except I wasn't new, I was six months into my contract. when my pet bird began pulling his feathers out in great bloody clumps and other teachers admitted their eyes and throat were burning when they entered my apartment, I went on strike. (after trying everything else). I simply refused to teach until they moved me. They moved me to the other side of our dorm like building and Bird and I began to feel better almost immediately. Two months after the move and just before summer break,I was told I had to move back to the sick side of the building because the East block was undergoing refurb. THEN on July 4th I got the following email from my manager.

After careful thinking, I think that we should get a conclusion for the appartment issue to finish the endless discussion.

Three options:
Option 1, As we agreed, you move into 205 and 207 of the old block this weekend and I will try my best to get you back at the beginning of the new semester for 101 in the east block. If you can make any private deal to move into 101 early, please try to do so.
A condition of that option is that you has to be very reasonable when you talk with teachers living in your old appartment block at least not instigate any of them hate the old block. If you couldn't promise to do so, then I'm in big risk. Other teachers will think I treat them wrose than treat you.And you were arguing and threaten to me then won the move. They will do the same. Therefore, if you couldn't promise it, then we go to option 2.

Option 2, you move back Mike's room 205 and 207 this weekend and live there till the end of your contract.Mike are happy with his appartment, and the appartment's condition full fill the contract we signed. If you think it is not suitable for you live there, then we go to option 3.

Option 3, we finish the contract by the end of this term due to you are very sensative for the appartment condition.
Then no suffer anymore.

I have tried my best to help you and treat you specially.
In case, you will be unhappy anyway, we need to find a solution by which two of us can go back to happy life.
We did too much discussion around, it is time to simply say 1 or 2 or 3 to me.

I saw this as blatant extortion and toyed with responses but did not respond to his email, I simply made the move back to the sick side of the building quietly (furniture and all at my own expense, Twice!)

I did not threaten the guy (except to refuse to teach for two days until they moved me), and until now I have complied with their demands because I was trying to avoid being a screaming foreigner. I keep the windows open and still we're sick again. (we as in bird and I, Bird talks better English than my students, and he can say Usually and make it sound like a word.....Sorry I digress)

Today I happened to be outside when I realized people were coming in and out of the East Bldg. foreign people. There was never a need for me to move and I resent being lied to again by these people. My contract says nothing about safe healthy environment, like most of our contracts it specifies western toilet and little else. it also says I have to give them sixty days notice to quit.

My query? If I quit and want to take another job in the same province what will happen with my Visa? They have told me they will cancel it on the spot . Can they do that? And what kind of trouble will I bring to a new employer potentially?

Before you beat me up, yes I know I should have found my brass balls and sent him back an email that simply said "3". But I truly wanted to finish the contract.

I'm beat up tired and disgusted with myself for not dealing with this more pro actively. And I could use a cyber hug and some advice on IF I can quit and the best way to go about it?

thanks in advance...Bird says... Ni Hao!

[George61]

Hoo Boy!1 An introduction that is different. Firstly, welcome aboard. Secondly, a sick building is not a matter of fiction. A new school I moved to, the cement was still damp, there was no heating, and I got arthuritis or roomatism.....don't know which.
I suggest you take option 3 and get the hell out of there.
Go to a good doctor (if you can find one) and get a statement of your condition, and try to use this as your reason for leaving.

[Enigma]

One huge big cyber hug comin right at ya...

Will leave the rest of the advice to those who are in the know.

[Missi]

Oh Diva! Come up to the LL and there is some hot cocoa and hugs. (ok well some mai tai's since its summer)

In all honesty, your safety should be your number one concern. Bottom line.

George suggested that you get a doctors letter and try to get out of your contract that way. Is there a part of your contract that says if unable to work due to a medical condition?

[Raoul Duke]

Oh, my, Chinese bosses really don't like it when you force them to do the right thing. They really prefer it when you meekly and silently allow them to ignore you or abuse you.

I sort of agree with the others that it's time to leave. I don't think these are people you can work with, and you obviously can't live in that apartment. Here in another couple of months, leaving a window open is no longer an option in Changchun.

But I wish I had more info...

For one thing, I don't think it's mold that's causing you the problems. Chongqing, yeah, but not Changchun. The climate in Changchun is bone dry and not very conducive to wild mold growth. I guess it's possible, but it seems unlikely.
Are you seeing visible signs of mold...like on the walls or the grout in the bathroom?
And if it isn't mold, then what IS it?

Unfortunately it'd be hard to get the air in the apartment analyzed accurately. The uni sure ain't gonna do it, and anyone local will simply run to the government and ask them what to put on the form. You'd have to bring up someone from Shenyang... It's too bad, because if you knew for sure what was doing this it might be possible to fix the problem.

I guess a doctor might not hurt, but you're unlikely to get much real help here, either. Even if you find a doctor what's been to college and stuff, and that doctor isn't thoroughly cowed by the local system, you probably aren't going to get a result much past "unspecified rhinitis" or some such basically meaning an allergic reaction. It's very difficult sometimes to determine the exact agent that causes these symptoms in you.

It's really hard for me to connect together some of the information you've given us. Is "205/207" another set of apartments in your old building? Does "Mike's room" come with Mike installed, and does it have the same air problem?

Are other people living near your old apartment? Is anyone else having these problems? Is it the whole building/floor/wing, or is it just your old apartment? Are you sure other foreign people are now being moved into the area you want, or are they just coming in and out?

Either way, it sounds like moving on is about your only option.

I would tell the manager all you want is an apartment that doesn't make you sick. You have no desire to cause trouble. If they can give you a livable apartment, you'll go there and the matter will be finished...not another word about it to anyone. If they can't, then you have to leave. If they will agree to end your contract, give you a neutrally-worded release letter, and leave your residence permit intact until you find another job, you will move on in peace and quiet and agree to not "instigate" the other teachers, and no one will suffer further. Don't threaten to make noise on the way out otherwise, if you can help it. Leave that option unspoken.

They can't cancel your residence permit and other documents unless they have them physically in their possession, so under no circumstances should you ever turn over your documents to the school no matter what they tell you. They don't need them in order to terminate your contract or give you a release letter. However, the police can cancel your Chinese documents, and you can't refuse a direct request for your documents from them. You may have to be prepared for a mad dash to Korea or Hong Kong to get a new tourist or business visa so you can re-enter. Let's hope they choose the peaceful option.

If things do turn ugly, your first call should be to your nearest Consulate, which is probably in Shenyang.

Oh, and never accept any agreement based on "I will do my best to...". You'll almost always find that "their best" won't be very good.

[Raoul Duke]

kokopelli said:

Mold doesn't always show visibly.

True enough. She just seemed awfully sure it was mold, and I was looking for some evidence as to why she felt that way. Changchun is up in that great northeastern dry zone that not-so-gradually becomes the Gobi desert; it's REALLY dry up there! You have to use a lot of lotion and Chap Stick on your skin; I even had to spray saline solution up my nose because my nasal passages dried out so badly. So it seemed reasonable to wonder if it might not be something else...

[Raoul Duke]

Hey, that sounds pretty reasonable, especially given that this was apparently an "Instant Building" that went up a bit too fast.

It would explain mold in a place where in theory there should be little or none. Might also explain why her apartment was, as near as I can tell from the description, Ground Zero for this problem.

[Digital Diva]

Thanks for the nice replies y'all. As to the mold, oh yeah it's mold, it hung off our walls in great hairy sheets and it became part of the weekly cleaning routine to sweep it off and bleach things down. Of course none of us realized that we were actually exposing ourselves in our efforts to have nice clean mold free walls, and it comes in three different colours too. When I first got sick I didn't put much stock in the theory, but in May I didn't travel, I was home alone in the apartment almost the entire time, it was getting warmer and there was a noticible smell. We lost four of the ten teachers before Christmas to a variety of problems, and even the most stalwart among us have been felled by strange illnesses persistent headaches etc. It's everywhere in the building, but much worse inside the apartments, which I'm betting has something to do with airflow. This stuff grew in the winter, it began to smell in the summer.

205 and 207 are references to an apartment and therein lies yet another problem. A year ago when I got here I had been promised a furnished apartment. A single apartment. I was a the first of our team of ten to arrive only to find them actually constructing shared units. I indicated rather forcefully (as only someone new to China can that I was leaving. This indicated to the Uni President that there might be a problem with not delivering on the contract. They very quickly had to rework the constuction and another coworker and I spent the first three weeks sharing an apartment. I was forever identified as the screaming foreigner who told the Uni President (by proxy of course, he does not associate with foreigners) That he not only had a bad idea, he had no choice but to fix it or lose all the precious money he was going to see from our program.

I have been approached by another employer. Foreign run and managed. they say things like "we'll take care of you" and by gum I think they mean it. I've worked with them all summer so I think they are legit.

the real problem is the timing. I should have told them earlier. I feel guilty. I bet they don't. and Raoul, thanks for the info about the documents. I can do a Hong Kong or South Korea run I just wasn't sure I was covered to do that. I am sure I won't get a release letter from them. So I might try to come back in on an F and convert later, I just didn't think I could change the visa so easily without a release letter etc.

Anyway thanks for the buckup commrades. I'll do what I have to do starting today. I can't say that I will be sorry to see the end of this school, but I see great opportunities for me in China and I'm not going to let this mealy mouthed little so and so ruin my health. ALL of our team has now been told they will have to live in the sick building because "we built it for you". Which translates as, We are now a Normal Univeristy and need to set up a contract which pays us 100 kwai per day with the buidling "owners" (the Pres and friends) for each apartment. Now we can have a nice income stream to lay next to the student kickbacks and other nice ways of earning a little extra dosh.

thank you thank you thank you. And if you're considering work in Changchun, steer clear of Changchun Normal Univeristy, formerly Changchun Teachers College. In fact I've a half finished web page up it's got a couple of interesting Photos on it, check out the toilet on the home page. Its an actual photo of the bathroom that they sent me too when I forced them to move me ....andrea.mckinney.googlepages.com/

[George61]

I would bet on the problem not being mold, but chemicals leaching out of the cement in the walls. This could last for years. There is a name for it, but I can't remember.

[Raoul Duke]

Good on ya, Diva!

Uh, George, apparently it IS mold. Big hairy sheets of it.

The "foreign owned" school isn't Aston, is it?
Sometimes "foreign owned" can be worse than the locals...

[Digital Diva]

Nope not Aston, new players in the market IB school who pay western salary and say things like Dental, Health, Retirement benefits....10 Million USD in the building alone. I sure hope they meant it when they said "come work for us!" cause I just sent the resignation. I'm a little nervous about how it's going to play out but heck, in the south, we have a saying "I came in here lookin for a job, I can damn well LEAVE here lookin for one".

[Mr Nobody]

Are the others having similar issues? If so, :

Try for the solidarity ploy, tell the others, be prepared to go. If the solidarity ploy works, maybe they will fix it, or at least panic. If things come worst to worst, at least tell them their rep as you walk out the door, but not before.

[Mark FJ]

--We lost four of the ten teachers before Christmas --

Wow.
I lost ten yuan last week and i thought that was careless.

[cheekygal]

Diva, next time you work with mold, wear rubber gloves and a cotton mask. And after you are done *bleaching* the place (bleach by the way also causes unwanted reaction for your body), wipe the area with Dettol solution. Also, it could be affecting your clothes. When you wash them add Dettol desinfectant for laundry or if you can't find it in the stores - weak bleach solution.

I hope you feel better. I know how bad mold can be - I was in Chengdu nearly 5 years ago and Chengdu is known for mold in spring and automn due to horrible humidity.

[Digital Diva]

Psycho boss has emailed to inform me that unless I find a replacement he can't "let me" go and promises a release letter if I do (help him find another sacrificial lamb), since Im staying in the same province that release letter would sure be helpful, but I dont actually think Im ever going to see it.
And honestly, do I really want to troll for some poor soul to rot in moldy Uni hell? :sigh:

I am resisting the urge to write him back and say,, LET me go? Are you really such an idiot?

But this would prolly ensure that there's not a release letter huh?

Im thinking I should offer you guys some odds on it and live off the proceeds until the visa situation is resolved....Takers?

[Mr Nobody]

See if you can get him some psycho.

[cheekygal]

Fly out to HK, get there a new tourist/business visa to China and come back *clean* and relieved!

[Raoul Duke]

Diva, when does your current residence permit expire? And does it already have re-entry privileges on it?

Jumping to HK and wiping the slate has traditionally been the answer at times like this and is the likeliest scenario I can see here. However, if you still have re-entry permits then leaving won't wipe the slate unless you camp in Shenzhen and go back and forth one more time than you have re-entries. It's also possible but unlikely that trying to replace a residence permit that still has lots of time could cause you some problems.

I'd hang tough with this manager. I'd counter by saying that if he can't put you in housing that doesn't make you sick, you are definitely going to leave right now. Definitely don't let him cow you into doing his recruiting for him...this little rhubarb was brought on by the school, not by you. At the worst you may have to let him cancel his little permit if the police take your documents (DON'T just hand them over to him) and then make your HK or Korea run, and come back.

2 places you should go for local advice. One is your nearest Consulate. The other is your new employer if you have a contract signed by both parties. Either or both may be able to help you.

[Digital Diva]

REsidence permit expires in OCtober and has nothing on it regarding entries. Z visa says 01 entries and duration of stay after each entry 000. Is it really as easy as just going to HK? what about getting a new residencfy permit? How do you legally live in a city without a residency permit? do you just simply go and register with the PSB once you're rearrived on an F visa?

[Becster79]

I hope you're doing okay til the new school- and I hope your bird is okay! I love birds, don't want anything to happen to him ....oh, and you !

[Ruth]

Saw the toilet picture on your website. You DID take pictures of the sheets of mold didn't you? If you go armed with pictures and perhaps some info from Mr. Google about the health hazards associated with mold, maybe your Uni will listen to you and give you what you need (release letter).

Larger issue here is the health of anyone who has to live in that environment. You are doing your bit by creating your website and offering to email people considering that school and posting about it here. Don't forget to post at Nate's too.

Take care of yourself. How soon can you get out?

[Mr Nobody]

Contract does say something about suitable living standards, yes?

[Raoul Duke]

My God! That's, uh, quite a mold problem. If you can build a strong enough case for a health hazard, you might indeed have some leverage here...and that one photo alone gets you well on your way...

If you have no re-entries, once you cross the line out of mainland China your residence permit and visa become null and void. You must get a new visa to re-enter China, and you start over with a clean sheet...at least from a visa standpoint.

The downside of this approach, and the nice thing about having the release letter, is that if you start over you have to start completely from scratch towards getting a new residence permit. New invitation letter, new Z visa, new health check...everything. If you have a release letter, this becomes a much simpler and cheaper and faster administrative transfer.

Technically you can't live anywhere except a hotel or approved company housing unless you have a Z visa and ultimately a residence permit. Unless the police really have it in for you they will generally allow you a grace period to get a new job and start the process of getting a new residence permit. If you're really worried about it you might rent a bed by the month in the cheapest hostel you can find...you don't want to live there but you might want to claim it as your address.

If you're official with your new job, ask their advice on the local situation and how you should handle this.

[Meihou Wang]

The health issues you've described are typical of carbon monoxide poisoning, which at low levels often result in many of these symptoms:

Headache, nausea, aches and pains, drowsiness, itching/burning of the eyes and nasal passages, general flu-like symptoms

At more dangerous levels:

Confusion, disorientation, vomiting, loss of consciousness

Worst Case scenario:

Death from asphyxiation.

I know all of this because for the last two years, I've worked as an emergency line operator, handling only those emergencies related to natural gas distribution, i.e. gas leaks, fires and explosions, as well carbon monoxide poisoning and asphyxiation.

Your case sounds very much like it could be CO. For just one specific unit in an apartment to be effected is quite common, as the source is usually an appliance, such as your water heater, for example. Do you use natural gas, propane, heating oil, or some other combustible fuel in your apartment? Get a CO detector if you can (make sure to specify carbon monoxide, not smoke). Put the detector near wherever you sleep, and keep fresh batteries in it at all times. People die all the time from this.

If you'd like the Chinese characters for carbon monoxide detector, PM me and I'll send you an email, as these boards don't support Big5 fonts.

Also, a western style MD should be able to test for the presence of CO in your blood. It's not a standard test for ambiguous diagnostics, but if you ask, it shouldn't be a problem.

If you have any other questions about CO, definitely ask and I will happily help answer your questions.

[Mr Nobody]

They also describe a number of conditions from pollen and other allergies to flu and even the early onset of the pneumonic plague. I gather it can't be the last because it is chronic, and you would know if it was the plague by now.

Do you usually get these symptoms with mould? You could also have a low level virus of some kind or an allergy to something in the house.

But anyway, mould like that in a week isn't livable conditions. They have to do that read the contract carefull, and if not, find a SAFEA contract and check it out too. SAFEA must protect its FE anyway.

THe school bleating over the matter has nothing to do with it.