I Return, With Questions!

[ObertonGluek]

So, I'm pretty much settled in now. Today marks my seventh week in the very hot city of Shenzhen.

Teaching

I like it. I don't love it or totally appreciate it, but I like and respect it as an experience and for the fact that it allows me to be here in China and out of my own country for a while. Very nice.

The Future

Now, I know for sure that I don't want to sign a new contract when my current one ends. I mean, a new contract for teaching. I love where I live at the moment; it's not in the heart of the city, it's an hour outside of it and I quite like that arrangement.

But, saying that, I would love to stay in China maybe an extra year but doing something else. This is where I want to ask for advice and/or suggestions.

I don't have a degree, but after this contract I will have one years' experience teaching for a very popular school that is attached to Tsinghua University in Beijing. It's Tsinghua School in Shenzhen.

I like the job, but I don't think I would like two years of it. I'm quite certain of that much.

Ideally, I would love some kind of 'design' position, as this is where I am knowledgeable and it's where I will be picking my life up at back home. Marketting Design is my ambition, or any design role in general. I have a big reputation back home and I can make a few portfolios etc to help me along.

A lot of other jobs would be fine, but that one would be perfect so that I can go back home and say I've done the job I want, elsewhere.

So, what do you think?

Life in China

I really like it now. After 3 weeks I started to feel a little home-sick, something I thought wouldn't happen to me considering how badly bored I was of the UK but, it did. It's only just starting to ease off now and I'm feeling a lot better for it.

The job, the people, accommodation, school etc. It's all very nice and I think I got very lucky with this one. There is no last-minute changes or anything confusing.

I teach 3 classes per day and we all follow a very very nice and decent book which makes the job very easy. Oh, I teach 2 classes on Monday and one class on Friday... and have all weekend free! Woo hoo!

Anyway, I'm rambling on now. So, if you can help me with my questions I would be very happy for any advice in that area and I shall be looking forward into the future very soon!

我爱中国，中国埃我！

谢谢！

[Raoul Duke]

It's really hard for a foreigner to get a non-teaching job here, even with a degree and heavy experience. It's even harder to get a non-teaching job that pays more than 4K a month here. The bottom line is that there are simply too many skilled and educated Chinese looking for work, and they will work for a lot less money and take a lot more abuse than you will. Most of the non-teaching expats here were sent here by the companies they already work for back home.

All of this doesn't even take into account the language barriers, which are considerable.

Most in-house and independent marketing groups are aiming at the Chinese market, which means you'll need a deep knowledge of Chinese language and culture. However, there are a few folks out there (mostly in Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Shanghai, and Beijing) who do attempt marketing to foreigners in English. Hunt them down, talk fast, show them a strong portfolio (you do have a design portfolio, right?) and you might have a shot. AsiaXpat (link in the Links page) has categories for Advertising and Marketing jobs for the biggest Chinese cities.

Don't expect such a job to come with better pay and treatment than teachers get. It ain't necessarily so.

I don't mean to be discouraging here...it's just reality. Getting a non-teaching job here isn't impossible...it's just very, very, very difficult unless you are fluent in Chinese and/or have marketable skills that aren't widely available among the locals.

[nolefan]

It's all relative..to some extent!

Good non-teaching jobs are hard to come by.. especially if you lack experience and/or qualifications. There are however opportunities in some of the bigger cities that might not pay that well but are available nevertheless.. especially if your Chinese is somewhat conversational to fluent.

spend some time on www.thatsbj.com and look at the job market section.

[con's fly is open]

On Teaching: It's purposeful, challenging and pays well. Your enthusiasm might wax or wane over time.

On The Future: What Raoul and Nolefan said. They're far more informed on this than I am.

On Life in China: There are 4 stages of homesickness. The first is that twinge you've just been through, when you start to jones for good TV and the other day-to-day comforts back home; like you said yourself, no biggie.

The second hits in the third/fourth month. It's largely born of social isolation- loneliness. Build your social scene aggressively now, and you'll save a lot of pain.

The third hits at 6 months, when you reach the halfway mark and realize you've got just as much road ahead of you as you do behind, and forecast exactly the same amount of drudgery, grief and low times as you had in the first half. At this point, make some changes in your lifestyle. It's advisable to pay some big ticket item at this point, such as a big screen TV, a trip to the dentist, and scooter, or your plane ticket home.

The last hits about 6 to 8 weeks before you're due to go home, and start counting the days until you'll see the old crowd and scene. When you get down to the last 3 weeks you'll calm down, believing you're really leaving, and have a warm, even sad farewell tour.

[ObertonGluek]

I see... so, I'm kinda m'kayed I guess.

That's such a shame, I wouldn't mind staying for longer in China, but not doing the same thing. Maybe it's because I teach Grades 1, 4 and 5? They're so much fuss and so much stress every time. I dunno, I think maybe I would like teaching adults better. Walk in, chat about nonsense and walk out. No lesson plans or crap like that.

I guess, truthfully, I didn't imagine the job here to be as formal as it is but the school I work is seriously communist and popular. Working here will no doubt open up many more better oppertunities, should I choose to stick around. We'll see.

Regarding homesickness, that all doesn't sound too exciting. Especially the low-point aspects of it. I have one Chinese friend whom I meet up with regularly, but I guess I should work on making more. I usually hang-out with the other guys my age who also work at the school.

I hate going to clubs here, the initial idea is exciting. But not being able to talk Chinese to all the pretty girls is quite annoying. I'm learning though, and I'm making very good progress lately. I just thank god I got into languages a while ago. I use Skype at the moment and chat to Chinese people (ok, women) on there.

我爱中国女人，他们很美

。。。他们爱我

Yeh, see, my Chinese ain't too bad lol. Getting better. Thing is, I'm concentrating on Characters as much as speaking/listening. I've studied many languages and I'm very thorough, so I guess it makes the whole process a little slower for me. Unfortunately.

[George61]

When you get down to the last 3 weeks you'll calm down, believing you're really leaving, and have a warm, even sad farewell tour.

Then after a time at home, you will realise you want to get back to China!!!

[hankuh]

[Mr Nobody]

I didn't get the stages that Con talks about. I don't get homesickness really, never have. Home is where I hang my hat, not that I wear one.

[Non-Dave]

Hey OG, I just made the switch from kids (primary, middle and senior schools) to mostly adults in companies - what bliss! I still have a few middle school classes each week to keep my perspective, but I am really enjoying the adult classes. Doesn't mean their English is any better, though!

[Missi]

Home is where I sleep. Heck when I travel I bring my own pillow cases and blanket if I have enough room for it.

OB a reason you may not be enjoying teaching as much as you could is because of the age level. They could just be too young for you. I know that some people prefer to teach the younger kids and others just cringe at the thought of teaching little kids. I love teaching my high school kids, we get more done, have better conversations, talk about anything. Maybe if you still plan on living in China for a second year and are willing to still teach what about trying for a school that has both junior and senior middle school so that way you can see the difference and choose.

just a thought.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Kid's classes

Most English teachers hate children. The odd teacher who does not will never be out of work, as the others desperately beg the DOS for TOEFL classes, EAP, anything that will not have children in them.

English teachers' inability to hold down a relationship or a steady job or generally be a responsible grown-up means they have so far failed to reproduce. Their experience of and rapport with children (or indeed anybody that they cannot get drunk with or shag) is nil.

The best way to keep children quiet is to give them something they like doing, then think of a pedagogically convincing reason for doing it. Colouring-in, for example, is perfect: it takes ages. However, parents have been known to complain. The wise teacher writes “Colouring-in Dictation” at the bottom of the picture. He then reads out in a bored voice, “The clown's trousers are green, his nose is red,” and so on.

Children are actually not that hard to please. Their favourite teacher is the one who gives them the most sweets.

From Englishdroid.

[Lotus Eater]

oberton said:

I see... so, I'm kinda m'kayed I guess.

I dunno, I think maybe I would like teaching adults better. Walk in, chat about nonsense and walk out. No lesson plans or crap like that.

Working here will no doubt open up many more better oppertunities, should I choose to stick around. We'll see.

No lesson plans ?? You have to be kidding!! Chat about nonsense? You are out of your mind. Adults are much clueier than little ones. I CAN'T play games with my students because they seriously want to get their English better. THEY see games insulting and time-wasting. I spend hell of a lot of time planning my classes, writing up the lesson plans and then at the end of semester I have a booklet I have to complete that analyses the course, the progress etc etc. that the Department requires to be completed.

I have a friend who travels well over an hour each way to visit me to practice his English - I can't talk nonsense to someone that keen! I have students who come to me with written essays each week and want me to run tests on their respsonses to questions etc - these are not students from my classes, but others from the university who want to improve. I am coaching students DAILY so they can compete in national competitions. These people want REAL stuff - not m'kaying nonsense!

As for where you are teaching - most other places don't really care where you were before. Working at one good place doesn't necessarily mean you will be headhunted for another good place. You could just as easily end up in a much less 'prestigious' place if you are chasing the money. I work at a one of the 211 universities and have no expectations of this opening any doors for me anywhere. In fact, knowing me, when I leave here I am more likely to be heading out to the wild places where they rarely send their kids to university! Being a student at one of these uiniversities has some cachet, but not as a foreign teacher. Everyone knows how foreign tachers are selected - and for most places, it ain't on qualifications, experience etc etc- it's on face. That's all you've got to sell. Here you have to have a masters degree to teach English, Japanese etc- but for foreign teachers, it doesn't matter what the major is.

The better the school or university, the more likely they are to require you to be a 'professional' about your work.

At the language mills, the students are the primary judge of teachers, and unless you can convince them you are doing a good job - you will soon find your contract is not renewed. So yes - you could well be m'kayed.

[Noodles]

Don't give up hope of finding a different style of work. You are in one of the best cities to find alternative employment.
I have been able to do a couple of different jobs since i have been here. Although back in education now. It kind of depends on what your skills base is and what you want to do.

I have found all my work in this place by socializing and word of mouth.

Unfortunately that means mixing with them foreign types, but they can sometimes be useful.

[Becster79]

George, so true!! Within a week of returning to Oz at the very end of last year I was pining so much for China! Who would have thought? All the food at home tastes like crap (other than a good steak) and within a couple of days everyone's sick of hearing your China stories .....

O.G. Lotus said it all about teaching college. I teach in the backwaters, however, I like to think that my teaching quality is good regardless of whether I'm at Peking University or Hillbilly Uni. I spend countless hours each week planning, preparing lessons, marking writing assignments (takes forever) and even spending my own money on things for class. Sometimes the students hate having so much work but I know they secretly appreciate my help!

Never, ever fob of teaching in any country at any age, it's the most important profession in the world!

[mich]

I have to agree with Lotus there...

I teach at a high school, 22 - 26 40 minute classes per week. All my students have a very basic level of English.

I also teach at a primary school once a month for three hours.

Downfalls of high school - My classes are MASSIVE, the kids study pretty hard and most of them want to sleep, you have to be somewhat entertaining to them and make your lessons as interesting. You also have to deal with kids who don't want to learn, kids who try and pull a fast one. Ie - have comic books, NBA magazines inside their text books, or listening to their MP3's. You also deal with backchatting and what not.

Upside - Some kids realise that English is actually important and try their guts out. Their english is GENERALLY better than the younger ones. They sit there and for the most part they're pretty quiet.

Downside to littlies - They jump around! yell out. They suck out every ounce of energy you have, because you have to be upbeat all the time. They have very little or absolutely no English and tend to repeat everythig you say.

ie. me: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
kids: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. 10
me: Great! You're very clever!
kids: Great! you is very clever!

see what I mean?

Upside: The kids are adorable, totally fascinated by foreigners and are loooovvveee playing games. You don't get the backchat, you don't really get smart @rses either.

Personally, I prefer the older ones....But I do like taking a break from time to time and teaching the littlies...I couldn't do it full time though, it would drive me insane!

Combating homesickness? Call your mum. (that's what I do)

[Mr Nobody]

Mich, you know OG's mum? It IS a small world!

And that is a damn funny quote from Chris Rock, too.

[Justashooter]

doctorg said:

Kid's classes

Most English teachers hate children. The odd teacher who does not will never be out of work, as the others desperately beg the DOS for TOEFL classes, EAP, anything that will not have children in them.

English teachers' inability to hold down a relationship or a steady job or generally be a responsible grown-up means they have so far failed to reproduce. Their experience of and rapport with children (or indeed anybody that they cannot get drunk with or shag) is nil.

The best way to keep children quiet is to give them something they like doing, then think of a pedagogically convincing reason for doing it. Colouring-in, for example, is perfect: it takes ages. However, parents have been known to complain. The wise teacher writes “Colouring-in Dictation” at the bottom of the picture. He then reads out in a bored voice, “The clown's trousers are green, his nose is red,” and so on.

Children are actually not that hard to please. Their favourite teacher is the one who gives them the most sweets.

From Englishdroid.

LMAO. this is the funniest post i have read on this board yet. sadly, though, the best humour is rooted in irony.

as an american working in industry, i do agree that all foreigners i see that are not teaching are placed from the outside and are techincally oriented. most are quality assurance officers, like myself. businesses can afford few foreigners, especially if they are not fluent in putonghua.

i do know some with non-teaching jobs that are running restaraunts, DJing at night clubs, and writing on assignment (spys). i am working up a side gig teaching firearms handling and security procedures to armed bank guards. difficult to get into, but peaking some interest. i did publish a few articles in some obscure military equipment magazines just for kicks.

[Pashley]

Just across from you, outside Zhuhai, is Beijing Normal Uni. It has a design school www.design-factory.cn/english/ which is a joint venture with a German outfit. www.design-factory.de/

They do not hire English teachers but have had various Europeans as design teachers. I have no idea what they pay, or whether they need people for next year.

Campus is pleasant, on-campus housing very nice. Currently 40 minutes by bus to get downtown, almost a hour to Macau border. They are building high-speed rail so in 2008 it will be 10 minutes to border, 45 to Guangzhou.

[con's fly is open]

Obby, I've found teaching kids to be much more difficult: they have shorter attention spans, and need far more shiny objects to wave in front of them. Lesson plans have to be far more detailed: I find I can improvise a lot more with adults.

On the other hand, kids believe everything that comes out of your mouth. and they never skip class because work's too busy. And They retain English like you wouldn't believe.

If you're burned out, take on older students. They take less out of me (and give less back). Maybe you'll find the same.

And Nobody wasn't homesick? Coincidentally, he came here with his future bride and babymomma. Good cure!

[Lotus Eater]

I also don't get homesick - without a future partner or any chance/desire/plan for babies! I miss my daughters when there is something special happening in their lives - birthday etc. But I figure I see more of them now than I did back in Oz. They visit me here for a month at a time. At home, they all work/live/study in different cities spread all over the eastern seaboard. They would come back for the weekend once every 4-6 months, spend half an hour at home, and zap out to see their friends for the rest of the time, only calling back in to change clothes!

The only other time I missed Australia was when I showed an episode of David Attenborough's Secret Life of Plants - and he was showing an Australian bushfire - I could smell it!! No other smell like it in the world.

Home is where you make it.

I moved a lot as a kid - my parents had farms in several different areas so we would move relatively regularly - at least twice before I went to school, 5 different primary schools, 2 different high schools, then away to university. So I learned quickly that home is actually inside your head. It was really weird to me to live in the one town for 26 years when I got married. I did move houses and each house had open spaces in front of it (parks) but ... I still looked for the horizon every day.


I am a very happy nomad!

[Vegemite]

Me too, I'm a happy nomad but am now having to make the real difficult decision about whether to renew my contract next year or not...go back to NZ and return to teaching grumpy, bored, whingy whining Kiwi High School kids or stay here and teach willing and eager University students... Go back to scrimping and saving on my teacher's salary back home...or live here where we can dine out everyday...

I like teaching and over the years have taught at private schools, Universities, High Schools and an Intermediate School. I much prefer the young adults - the University/College age students. Little kids flumox me...I only did that once and nearly ended up crying with both frustration and laughter. I was teaching in Barcelona and one day the little darlings sang me an English song - every second word was the 'F' word, when they saw my reaction they wouldn't shut-up. So every class after that, they would sing that damn song.

An adult class, on the other hand, can have too many perfectionists in it.... I did have one lovely adult class though, Business English to a class of about 15 Brazillian men...mmm.... Now they were very relaxed and went with the flow.

Yep, I much prefer the young adults - the college age students. Eager, mostly willing and have goals and know why they are studying...not like the majority of High School students. However, I haven't taught High School students here so they may be a totally different breed.

[Lotus Eater]

I think you answered your dilemma in your first paragraph.

[Mr Nobody]

Er, you have to think about this? There must be factors not mentioned.....

[Ruth]

What thoughts does your daughter have, Vegemite?

[Vegemite]

Yep, the daughter is the big question - she's the factor not mentioned...she wants to stay (so she says) but I am the mother (supposedly) and I have to make the big decision based around her needs.

Back in good ol' NZ she has two to three years of school left before getting her University Entrance.. She skipped a year so basically had a year to play with - so this year in China means she technically hasn't missed a year of school. However, if we stay then she will fall behind her peers... and I want her to get a Uni Entrance qualification so it gives her more career options in the future, even if she doesn't go to Uni.

Up here she attends the University and is studying Chinese, she's doing NZ maths and science on-line. The on-line learning, though, isn't working out. We've had lots of hassles with the internet, weeks / days when it doesn't work, including a big break of five weeks over the summer break, that - combined with her own attitude - means that she's really behind.

If we stay here, she can finish out a whole academic year at this University, get a Certificate in Chinese and sit the HSC. When we return to NZ I'd enrol her in a Uni Foundation Course - a course that allows people who never finished High School to get the equivalent of University Education. I've worked as a Career Guidance Teacher and so know quite a bit about these courses...they have good pass rates and young adults who dropped out of school too soon give positive feedback on them.

If we return next year I just plug her back into the system and she'll (hopefully) stay at school and get her Uni Entrance that way. She hates school, always has, and after this year away from it I envisage her having real difficulties returning to it. But at least she'll be back with her peers - doing all those normal (hideous) teenager things instead of stuck up here and isolated.

So stay or go...