And . . . schools that DO suck.

[Wolf]

I had just noticed that there isn't a "Schools that suck" thread in the "schools that suck" forum. As this information is both theraputic and useful to future/current job hunters, I guess there may as well be a thread for it.

My first bad experience in China was with a recruiter who went out of business anyway.

My second was working part time for a company called Modern English. Now, the school they set up in Nanchang was very new, so maybe that was it. But I thought their materials were crap, and they refused to pay me after every class as I had asked (my school was threatening to quarantine us during SARS, and I didn't fancy leaving my money in their hands for a long time.) My co-teacher was fine, but she was a little too helpful, and she was assigned to me, I think, because I was a foreign man and she was a Chinese woman who wore a LOT of makeup. It might have been just me, but she gave off a "must exploit guailao" vibe. The students were great. But I cannot recommend at least that branch of the franchise. I lasted for three weeks (part time gig) and walked when they refused to pay me after every class (as we had arranged) anymore.

[MyTurnNow]

Any list of schools that suck must of course start with AES. Slave-labor hours (especially if you're stupid enough to sign up for their Summer or Winter intensives) teaching horrible, horrible children for a mediocre pay scale that hasn't changed in the 7 years they've been in business...while the benefit package continues to get diluted. Exploitation of FTs is a science and a point of pride with these people. I know...I was once an insider and I've heard the conversations.

The quality of their programs is abysmal and considerable tinkering seems to have done little to improve it. There is little teacher support (despite a lot of lip service) and you have virtually no power to control your classrooms. They are lickspittle slaveys of the parents, and if it's a choice between backing you and pissing off a customer, better starting packing up right away. It's no trouble for them to replace you, given their stringent 3-point interview test: 1) you must come from a country where someone speaks English, 2) you must have a discernable pulse, and 3) you must be some form of mammal. See my post about "Bill from Chicago" elsewhere in this section for an excellent example of the quality they recruit.

On top of that the management is sleazy and inept. Do NOT turn your back or bend over with these guys around...they'd rather betray you or lie to you than look at you. They're one of the worse offenders in China when it comes to hiring people on illegal visas. They're also paranoid fascists of the first order....they patrol the waters constantly, looking for negative comments so they can discredit them/pressure the webmaster into deleting them. This is one of the few places on the Net where the truth about these people can really be told. As for the 'inept' part...they've managed to blow their early start and initial good reputation. They've had to resort to teaming with local scumbags to keep a number of their schools afloat...cash flow has become a persistent problem.

I'll also chime in with Modern English. I taught there briefly in Beijing. Best students I've ever had- still in touch with many of them- but a humiliatingly bad educational program (a low-quality ripoff of 'Crazy English') and a management team/administrative staff that makes even AES look like General Electric by comparison. This was the only time I've ever bolted from a contract- and was 110% justified in doing so.

Also be wary of the GAC/Athabasca University program at Suzhou University. Attempts at academic control have been thoroughly thwarted and this place is the biggest whorehouse in China.

MT

[Roger]

Schools that suck? Plenty!
Just because CS (if I remember correctly) asked me for my opinion on one KEVIN XU and/or YAOBANG TAINING CENTRE, FOSHAN, I begin with this item:
Kevin XU is a staffer at Huanan University (South China Uni in Guangzhou). I guess he is an ex-FAO or a professor. Never met the guy but have received some feedback from a Chinese lady that was in touch with him in some crooked business.
Kevin XU scans all available CV's on the Internet, notably those posted on Dave's, and offers them a job - with YAOBANG in FOSHAN.
He even suggested to me to up my demand for a monthly salary. YAOBANG was quite willing to hire me. But...
I refused to be nailed down on a piece of paper that binds me alone. I told them I wanted to have two months of probation - testing THEM. I negotiated RMB 130 in hourly wages, which they paid for every hour I actually worked there. They added transport costs too. No problem so far...
But, but, but: YAOBANG is a TC, and not an ordinary one at that: they don't teach in their own premises, they dispatch you to some public school.
So you go to No. 28 Primary school, two blocks away, on foot; add 20 minutes of footwork one way, do it four times a day. Go to Fengxing Primary school, another 20 minutes of walking one way. I can handle that.
If the distance is longer, they will ferry you there by car or taxi - at their expense.
But, you see: they are basically what simple-minded CHinese call "friends" with the principals at these schools, and friends make no fuss if something goes slightly wrong. A lot goes slightly wrong, and sometimes a lot goes a lot wrong. For example, lessons are cancelled unilaterally by the school principal without so much as notice.
If you have a salary, it does not affect you. YOu get paid your 5000 a month (I will return to working conditions in a while). But as a parttimer, earning wagesl, it was a DIFFERENT matter...
I found myself jobless on a number of days when I could legitimately expect them to use me in a school, but, alas, the school had cancelled classes over night. I got short-changed not by hundreds of RMB, but in the end, it amounted to something close to 2000!
You can, of course, take the view I just do my job, and if there is no work I get paid anyway since I am a fulltime teacher. But, full-time teachers who spend 8 hours in the Yaobang premises are not teachers - these are office clerks, albeit clerks with nothing to do (just like in a SOE). Do you like that? On top of it, you have to jump in at short notice if someone is missing. ANd, the job can be demanding.
During my six weeks there, I saw two expats arrive and depart.
One was a guy (perhaps CS's friend?) who had moved up from Shenzhen to Shunde, then to Foshan. In three days, he had had enough and left! Apparently, he was disssatisfied with housing. Can't blame him, though I don't know how "bad" it is since I live in my own home.
Then, one day a Aussie gal was there, freshly arrived from Ho Chin Minh city. Note: she had worked in Vietnam for one year!
To my surprise, I was relieved of my job over night, being replaced by her. One week later, they pleaded with me to return.
What had happened?
She had had a nervous breakdown during one of her lessons in a primary school. The kids were just too muich for her (can't blame her for that - they can be difficult!). She was found crying in the women's lavatory... She left the next day, so I was asked back...
But I was cheated out of my due working hours again, and so I quit, not without telling them that I would expose their mismanagement on various sites. I hoped they would at least pay methe time I had wasted in anticipation of having to work according to their timetable.
They couldn't budge. "It's not our fault...sorry for you, but we did nothing wrong...our 'friends' let us down..."
Friends? What about me? Do you treat one of your "friends" like dirt? Dropping him like a hot potato?
working conditions: 5000 RMB for 80 effective periods a month, but 8 hours presence time five days a week. Plus commuting, walking to and fro...
And: they won't obtain for you a work visa.
IF YOU WANT TO WORK IN FOSHAN, STICK TO PUBLIC EMPLOYERS! NO TRAINING CENTRE AFFORDS YOU THE DIGNITY OF A LEGAL STATUS!

[dorum]

Well, I've been letting this one brew up for a while, but here it goes.

Guangxi University in Nanning - if you're thinking about working here you need to be careful and ask lots of questions (and get the answers in writing).

In the interest of fairness, they do pay on time, and the money is pretty good for a university (5000-6000 per month, depending).

Now then, here's some things to be aware of;
1. When we first arrived here and saw the contract in its entirety (they had made a mistake and 'forgotten' to put the Appendix on their website), we realised that there was a surcharge for being a new teacher - they wanted 500 yuan per teacher per month during a probationary period of three months. They could not account for where this money would go (there's something like 24 FT's here at the moment, so that's a fair sum!), other than saying it was for the additional support we would need - HA! Somebody gave us a timetable and pointed at the building where we'd be teaching - not really worth 1500 yuan in my book... As they hadn't told us about this before we arrived, and 10 teachers refused to sign the contract, they relented, but made it perfectly clear that they intend to continue this practise in future.

2. This is VERY important - there are actually 2 colleges within the university which employ foreign teachers, the IED (International Exchange Department) recruits for both of them, and gives the impression that they're not much different. In fact, one is a private college (the Sino-Canadian International College or something, SCIC), the other a fairly 'normal' university thing. So if they put you in the SCIC, you get the pleasure of all the private school things such as spoilt brats, lots of paperwork and meetings etc., but with university pay. Talk about the worst of both worlds. If you want to work in a fairly standard university job, make sure you get in writing that you will be working for the Foreign Languages College (FLC)!!

3. Satan in a skirt is in charge of the Foreign Affairs Office. Seeing as she is also a vice dean of the SCIC, she is 'a little' biased - she has been known to try and force the FLC to make us work more, to give validity to her claim that the jobs are pretty much the same there and in the SCIC.
She tries to intimidate and bully people and lies habitually about anything and everything, especially Chinese culture when it suits her - most of the teachers here are on their first job in China, so she reckons she can get away with it.

4. They will tell you they have all the materials you need - this is of course a blatant lie - there's no books or anything for oral english classes, nor is there any material available for us to use (this is particular to the FLC). You will also run the risk of getting students who have already had 3 years of oral english with FT's without knowing anything about what they've done before or are supposed to do now. I know this is quite normal, but that doesn't stop it from being pathetic.

5. On a very subjective note, I've found it immensely depressing to work here - the IED has a wonderful way of making you feel like a burden just for being here, and the atmosphere is awful - the teachers from the SCIC are miserable all the time, and for us in the FLC it's not that much better.

By the way, I really like Nanning, it's a nice city to live in, and because of many years of foreign students, everybody seems fairly used to seeing white faces (there's little 'helloing' going on, and most people understand my (pathetic) Chinese). So I'd recommend the city, just maybe not this university.

Phew, well, I don't think I forgot anything, maybe I'll add to this later, though. I feel much better now...

[Hamish]

I'm interested to know if anyone else has had any contact with an outfit called the "Tianjin IELTS Training Centre." (Compass Foreign Languages)

Specifically, a woman there named Juliet.

Anyone?

What was your experience?

[Raoul Duke]

Hamish,
I interviewed with these guys once. Not sure I'd turn my back on them...the air was thick with weird vibes. Maybe it was just me.

One thing about them...for a fairly small school they seem to have a LOT of turnover!

[Sunaru]

Kinda like Future School in Dalian eh?

[Raoul Duke]

Well, I don't know if they have THAT much turnover...

Dalian Future School was my first job in China. I was a little addled by culture shock...it took me a while to piece together why all the people that seemed to be talented teachers kept leaving so suddenly. I eventually woke up, though...

You still happy with Talenty? I hear the headmaster got canned for stealing...

[Sunaru]

No, he got canned for writing contracts that went against corporate policy but made FT's very happy.

[Number One Son]

Sunaru said:

Kinda like Future School in Dalian eh?

I also started with Future School in Dalian, but went
to other AES schools later.

I think one reason my opinion of AES is not as bad as
so many others is that AES schools outside Dalian
seem to be run better. They are usually smaller and
have a more positive feel to them.

Teachers outside Dalian have more interaction with
management and have more input. They don't get
jerked around nearly as much. People seem to work
more as a team than adversaries. There's a different
company culture involved.

Dalian just has too many snakes in the grass and
way too much nepotism among Chinese staff (not
that nepotism can be totally avoided in China, but
past a point the result is total incompetence).

I think most of their problems stem from being too
close to the corporate bureaucracy where everyone
gets to be the boss of the day.

I could also go on about some of the students and
teachers as well. In some ways Future School has
become a victim of its own success. Too many
teachers, too many schools, too many students,
and too many managers who have been around
too long stirring things up to justify their existence.

Other schools in AES do respect teachers more, so
I can't condemn the whole system. An occasional
weirdo will pop out of the woodworks now and then,
but they usually don't last long.

If I had stayed with Future School in Dalian, I might
have had a much more negative attitude toward
AES, but I was lucky enough to move outward.

[Raoul Duke]

#1, with these people you can run but you can't hide.

My problems were in Changchun, a tiny school far from Dalian. I got bent and m'kayed by the top managers of the company, not the school director. I WAS the school director.

[Number One Son]

Raoul said:

#1, with these people you can run but you can't hide.

My problems were in Changchun, a tiny school far from Dalian. I got bent and m'kayed by the top managers of the company, not the school director. I WAS the school director.

What happened? I'd like to hear the story someday,
but don't want to blow your cover (or mine) by posting
too many details. I may return to them someday.

[Raoul Duke]

I'll fill you in over a beer someday.
In a nutshell, I committed the unpardonable sin of not kissing Mike Threatt's loathsome honky ass....

[Number One Son]

Raoul said:

I'll fill you in over a beer someday.
In a nutshell, I committed the unpardonable sin of not kissing Mike Threatt's loathsome honky ass....

I haven't had much to do with him. Only met him
once as I was leaving a school and barely spoke
with him. He seemed rather sullen, so I wasn't
even interested in getting to know the guy even
though I had heard a lot about him.

[Raoul Duke]

Number said:

I haven't had much to do with him. Only met him
once as I was leaving a school and barely spoke
with him....

This may have a lot to do with your having a reasonably positive experience with AES. He was worse than a Chinese boss!!
Supposedly he's officially "no longer with the company", but he's actually just working with the AES website, according to my sources. Maybe he finally went over even Dave Wisner's line...?