|
|
Post by alexis on Feb 26, 2005 14:55:48 GMT 7
We live in Ningbo and teach at a private primary school. The benefits/vacations are great but as you all know we feel like a total joke and no one really cares 2 cents what we do. After our contract is up on June 1st we want to try teaching adults here in Ningbo. Does anyone know which is better--teaching at a private University/College or a public one? We want to know which would be more rewarding on a teaching level.
We found a C.E.L.T.A class online that we have thought about taking. We already have our T.E.F.L's. We also thought about doing an online accrediated Master's program. I have a B.A. in Business and do not know if I should do a Master's in Education or Business. We both just want to be more marketable in Shanghai or ideally Europe. Our thinking is that maybe Shanghai or Europe could offer more respectable teaching positions. Any insight would really be appreciated.
|
|
|
|
Post by alexis on Feb 26, 2005 15:23:42 GMT 7
Correction, I am wrong about the online CELTA program. Is anyone aware of such a thing?
|
|
|
|
Post by Raoul Duke on Feb 26, 2005 23:09:54 GMT 7
We feel like a total joke and no one really cares 2 cents what we do. Welcome, dear friends, to classroom education in China.    Does anyone know which is better--teaching at a private University/College or a public one? We want to know which would be more rewarding on a teaching level. Since you put it this way, go with the public. Public unis are overseen by corrupt bureaucrats from hopelessly undermanned bureaus. Private ones don't even get that. However, the pay is likely to be considerably better at a private one. I have a B.A. in Business and do not know if I should do a Master's in Education or Business. We both just want to be more marketable in Shanghai or ideally Europe. What do you want to teach? If it's business, get the MBA. If it's English, or if you're interested in administration, get the Ed degree. (There are specific Master's degrees in TESOL available out there too...) The Master's in Ed or TESOL will likely have MUCH more impact in Europe. Probably won't matter too much in China which one you get. Our thinking is that maybe Shanghai or Europe could offer more respectable teaching positions. Ladies and Gentlemen, I think this may be the world's first use of the words "Shanghai" and "respectable" in one sentence...at least one sentence that wasn't describing the performance of a paid sexual act.  Seriously, in my experience I didn't find Shanghai's jobs to be much more "respectable" than those in other Chinese cities. The program I taught in there was rotten to the core academically (hence my departure), and you'll find Shanghai gets its share of horror ripoff stories just like any other place in China. The real draw of Shanghai for most people is a better lifestyle offering access to the good things in life, such as decent cheeseburgers, maple syrup, and Raoul. Salaries are higher, but for most people so is the cost of living- especially housing. (Of course, it helps if an apartment comes with your job...) Shanghai is just a nice place for foreigners to live. Western Europe can indeed offer real mainstream academic experiences...and unis there are typically much more demanding about who they hire. Eastern Europe, from what I've read on other forums, is much more of a mixed bag. A lot of it sounds like China with white people. One man's opinions... |
|
|
|
Post by alexis on Feb 27, 2005 11:01:21 GMT 7
I could really care less if it is "rotten to the core" I just want to teach somewhere where I do not have to do the monkey dance all day. Where I actually teach something to someone who wants to learn. Students who ask questions and aren't forced to be there by their rich parents. With an admistration that doesn't just act as though you are only tolerated. Do you know of any Univerisities in Shanghai or anywhere in China that might be worth applying to? At this point we do not care about the pay as much as the experience.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dr. Gonzo on Feb 27, 2005 12:43:48 GMT 7
Despite Raoul's reservations, I do believe the University of Technology Sydney offers a decent program at Shanghai U. wOZ from oZ teaches in this program, and I was sorely tempted to accept an offer.
Its your standard International Student course......small classes, reasonable resources, except in this case the students don't have to leave home to do it.
Western [Aust] run, decent people and conditions.........the students I'm teaching here are pretty good: a few air heads, but mostly genuine.
Try PMing wOZ for contact details.
Europe? I think not being a Eurotype pretty well cuts you out of legit. employment.
|
|
|
|
Post by alexis on Feb 27, 2005 12:53:27 GMT 7
I am interested in this and will check it out. Thanks, Alexis
|
|
|
|
Post by MK on Feb 27, 2005 13:13:39 GMT 7
And what's wrong with the monkey dance?  Public 'Key' Universities will probably offer the most rewarding teaching experience, but even though the pay is lower it can be hard to find jobs at these places. Good schools tend to keep their teachers longer. There are also more and more examples of western Uni's setting up in China, for example the Nottingham University campus in Ningbo, and one would hope that the standards of teaching and professionalism are higher at these places. However to get a job like that you usually need several years experience and/or some kind of post-grad' TEFL qualification. You can do the CELTA, (the first step on the TEFL qualification ladder) in centres in Shanghai and Beijing. It takes four weeks, full time. Most post-grad TEFL courses expect you to already have the CELTA or equivalent along with at least a couple of years teaching experience. Switching to TEFL is just like changing to any other career...you have to start at the bottom! |
|
|
|
Post by Hamish on Feb 27, 2005 13:42:37 GMT 7
Send me your reumes ASAP.
Hamish@mindspring.com
|
|
|
|
Post by Raoul Duke on Feb 27, 2005 16:42:59 GMT 7
Despite Raoul's reservations, I do believe the University of Technology Sydney offers a decent program at Shanghai U. wOZ from oZ teaches in this program, and I was sorely tempted to accept an offer. Its your standard International Student course......small classes, reasonable resources, except in this case the students don't have to leave home to do it. Western [Aust] run, decent people and conditions.........the students I'm teaching here are pretty good: a few air heads, but mostly genuine. Try PMing wOZ for contact details. Whoa! Dude, it depends upon where you teach there. wOZ teaches in the English school, and it is reasonably OK. It does indeed have small class sizes and some resources to work with. However, it's not all good there, either. I know a LOT of those English teachers there, and I can tell you that the rates of disgruntlement and teacher turnover are NOT all that low. I have the e-mails, I've heard the stories from the teachers, I've seen the admins scrambling to fill classes abandoned by another running teacher. Still, though, you could do worse than this place. Note that English is not offered there as an academic subject...you can't get a degree in English there. It's offered as a way of helping students get an IELTS score that will let them "go Australia", or to make them more attractive as entry-level workers. Business IS offered as an allegedly academic subject, and that's where I taught. Different as night and day. The only standards with any meaning here pertained to the timely payment of tuition and fees. We had no support, no resources, terrible archaic textbooks, and the rest of the usual story. I personally had a Principles of Marketing class with over 150 mostly unconrollable, non-English-speaking students; loud complaining eventually got it split into sections of 90+ and 60+ that weren't much better. Typical classes were well over 60. We had to compete against the Chinese teachers for class assignments, and the administration's personal bitches got whatever they wanted even if they were howlingly unqualified to teach them...we were allowed to clean up whatever classes the pets didn't want. Attempts to get career development, collaborate with our Chinese colleagues, or negotiate fairer contracts were rebuffed with contemptuous laughter. The administration treated us with deception and condescension. And, of course, it quickly became pretty obvious that grades were being altered and sold. It was a degrading nightmare experience and I am glad to be rid of it. Please don't talk to me about the University of Technology at Sydney (UTS). We former business teachers are much angrier at them than we are at the local Chinese administration. UTS is a good school- in Australia. It has to be, since it is overseen by the Australian education ministry. Overseas it is completely unregulated and the green light is on for raking in the money. UTS keeps its hands "clean" by turning over its overseas ops to a subsidiary called Insearch, who does all the dirty work. When we started realizing what was happening at the Shanghai school, we turned to Insearch and UTS for help. We got stony silence in return. UTS knows full well what's happening there, but they turn a blind eye to it. They let the local bandits do whatever they want as long as the checks keep rolling in. They are the willing and knowledgeable whores to the whores. Folks, I dearly love wOZfromOZ, I truly do. I would trust him with my money (if I had any), my children, or my life. He is my brother. But he has a rare gift...he has the ability to adapt and be happy in almost any situation he finds himself in. He likes everyone he meets. He very rarely has a bad word to say about anyone or anything, except perhaps for his satellite TV provider.  I envy him this gift, I really do...but I don't share it. Do you? |
|
|
|
Post by Dr. Gonzo on Feb 28, 2005 2:51:00 GMT 7
I should have been more specific, as I was only talking about the set-up at the main campus where I interviewed. I was given free rein to wander about and talk to staff and students. It was obvious the place was run by educators and was exceptionally well resourced, especially by Chinese standards. Since returning to Australia, I've worked in an identical set up. Of course, it wasn't perfect, and teachers complained, as is their want, but I was quite content.
I am aware that the story in Mr. Duke's business course was quite different!
|
|
|
|
Post by Hamish on Feb 28, 2005 6:06:25 GMT 7
I am aware that the story in Mr. Duke's business course was quite different! Yeah! No poo Sherlock. A recently released verbatim text of a portion of a surreptitiously recorded “class” session conducted by “Mr.” Raoul tells the story. It was interrupted by the arrival of the Dean and some burly police who dragged “Mr.” Raoul into the street and mistreated him across the hood of a pickup truck. Start tape. “Han Jie! Sit the m'kay down and shut the m'kay up you marble-headed tree dweller. I be here to tell yo’ ‘bout profits an’ poo. AND LEAVE THAT GIRL ALONE!!!!!!!! See, what’s left over after youse pays the cops, the workers, the restaurants and the hookers is called profit. Some people throw the numbers around so the yuan pissed away on hookers is added to the money given the cops but, in America, we think that is dishonest. What Yu? What means “dishonest?” It means you can’t tell your mother about it you stupid poo. How did you knuckle-dragging assholes get into college anyway? I never seen such a brainless band of nosepickers in all my born days. Which of you is buying lunch and beer today?” Sounds of a door opening followed by load cursing and furniture being thrown through windows. End tape. |
|
|
|
Post by Raoul Duke on Feb 28, 2005 9:09:59 GMT 7
Hey! That's my Organizational Behavior II class! How did you get that? My boys was supposed to be searching everyone for cameras and recording devices...
It sure brings back memories. That was a good day- a bit of scuffling, but I ended up back at my place with some malt liquor, some coke, and a couple of fine little fillies from that class...who, I must point out, later passed the class with excellent grades.
Gone, the English side was a little better. The Australian associate dean of the program is a fine man, and the Chinese admins pretty much let him do what he's good at.
|
|
|
|
Post by con's fly is open on Mar 1, 2005 1:45:33 GMT 7
Alexis, the chronic problem in private schools worldwide is that quality control often extends no further than the bare minimum of effort to hold onto students. This is status quo in many Chinese outfits... but by no means all. If your school doesn't care about good lessons, at least you do, and you are the boss in your classroom.
If achieving your standards of instruction is just requiring too much work, shop around town first, then other spots in China. There are many great schools (I worked for one, and hope to continue my winning streak this year), and crossing halfway around the globe to find a decent school seems drastic.
|
|
