Intro and questions (long!)

[Edges]

Warning: I have a feeling this is going to turn into a novel, feel free to skip to part two but the
intro should help put my questions into context. I’m normally a fairly private individual but I think
being more specific here will permit better responses. Note to moderators: perhaps the questions
should be put into separate thread(s), entirely up to you.

Introduction:

I was born in Ontario Canada and turned 31 years old 2 days ago. Since my father was an Officer
in the Canadian Air Force we lived all over Canada. Now retired, my parents reside in Quebec so
as you may have guessed I’m fluent in French. In 1992 the Air Force sent us to the USA for
NORAD where I studied Criminal Justice. After almost completing my degree I found out I had
to be a US Citizen to be a police officer so I quit (which I regret immensely) and joined the US
Navy. I traveled all over Europe, SW Asia and South America. Being the only person fluent in
French on my ship I was often used as translator during military exercises, port visits and drug
enforcement operations.

I completed my enlistment contract and joined the civilian world once again, and still remain in the
US (legally). Since then I have been working as a private Hapkido instructor (Korean martial art)
and two years ago I started supplementing my income by tutoring French. I’ve structured various
programs for martial arts depending on the needs and physical abilities of the students, and classes
are either private or up to 4 individuals. (I teach in my garage which I turned into a “gym”, larger
classes would not be practical nor as effective) As for tutoring French I’ve only done private
sessions with University students using their own materials mostly, as well as other media (movies
and music). So although I’m an experienced teacher in some aspects, I know I’m not yet ready to
teach large groups, which according to forums and sites I’ve researched classes range from 20 to
60 (or more!) students.

In order to remedy this I’ve been looking into TESL programs and the local
California University offers a 60 classroom hours program (www.oxfordseminars.com) which I’m
seriously considering taking. It also offers FREE job placement and extra modules (at extra cost)
such as teaching kids and business English. Anyone have any experience with this company?

Questions:

1. I realize not having a University degree will hurt me salary wise, would my College transcripts
be useful at all to show I’ve gone? (I plan on having a TESL certification as well)

2. Do all Universities require a University degree to teach?

3. My name is blatantly French but I have an American accent (been here 13yrs), I wonder if my
name could be an issue?

4. Shenzen (or at least Guangdong Province) is where I’m mostly interested in. The University
here (California) offers mandarin classes which is very tempting, but considering Guangdong
being cantonese would it be a waste of time and money? I read that many in that region speak
little or no mandarin.


5. I’ve seen little info concerning relationships, I’d be very interested in learning more about their
customs especially anything that has turned out to be an issue between foreign teachers and
Chinese. I freely admit I’d be looking for something long term (was never much into casual
dating), and I have read that cohabitation is somewhat still taboo. At 30 I’ve dated women from
21 to 34, what are their thoughts on age difference there? More advice/ input would be great.

6. I’m more interested in low weekly hours, say 12 or less with weekends off (rather book outside
work if extra $ is needed than have no free time) and with no or minimal “English corners”, what
type of schools tend to fit in that category? (Even if it paid less)

I have MANY more questions but this is a good start. I need to get certified, apply for new
passport, learn a bit of Chinese and go to Canada for a few weeks to visit family before leaving,
finish my current contracts and reimburse some students etc so realistically I’m looking at the very
least 3 or 4 months before going to China. Dalian and Tianjin sound interesting, but as I said
Guangdong gets my priority. I may consider teaching kids, not sure yet.

Thanks for any advice and input! I spent the last few days reading the great majority of posts, you
all seem like a great bunch. Feel free to PM me. Pierre

[Decurso]

Welcome Edges!

I took Oxford Seminars...and I guess you could say you get your moneys worth.It's pretty cheap by the standards of TEFL courses.The hours are easy(I took it in two months of of Saturdays...8 hours a day) and it gives you a good introduction to teaching.Basically it helps you see that the only things you need to teach are an ability to teach English,some personality and a little creativity.Oh yeah...and a LOT of Patience.The practicum is a joke though...you only teach your fellow classmates.But on your resume you can still say taught an 8 hour practicum...they don't need to know the rest.I can't comment on the job placement program though.They wouldn't look at my wife's resume because she didn't take the course...so I came over on my own.

The degree thing is very fuzzy.I know a lot of people here teaching without a degree...But I believe officially it is now required.Hard keeping up with the rules.If you have a college diploma you could just give them that and tell them it's a university degree.Trust me...they won't know the difference.One teacher at my school passed off his high school diploma as a university degree.Another option is to buy one off the internet.

The French thing will only matter in pickier schools and cities.Many schools here employ teachers from Europe and Africa...a rival school here employs and French Canadian whom I can barely understand....and the bastard makes 1000 RMB more than me!!!!So don't sweat it.

[Arlis]

5 + 1 + 2

As for low hours with weekends off, you may want to look at 'University' positions. Most have very low and very little leeway in negotiation. However, they seem to have a degree of clout with the admin (visa) side of things and you may be able to sneak in under the radar. The ones I've heard about also offer no standard english corner that they press upon you like other institutions. Please be aware though that I've mainly researched much further north of Guandong and am unable to comment in regards to it (Qingdao, Dalian).

There's a fantastic overview of teaching institutions on this site if you want to start on some basics.

[Mr Nobody]

Guangdong speak Mandarin and Cantonese, both. Shenzhen, many people aren't local. You mostly won't get short hours in Shenzhen, they are mostly private schools and want their pound of flesh. I have largely heard it isnt nice to work there accordingly. Uni's and colleges are fairly meticulous with degrees, but maybe they don't know - the one I work for would definitely know. They aren't stupid.'

Relationships: Cohabitation is actually illegal, and being a bignose, you are easily seen and may be reported. They actually do blitzes on this periodically around here. Other cities, they don't seem to give a bugger. As far as age differences go, they don't give a bugger at all anywhere. Date who you like. Since it is illegal to cohabit, you will not be permitted to do it on college campuses I think. The ones here would go beserk. I OWNED our appartment on the college, and my fiance (while we were doing the paperwork for marriage) was nervous about it. And the local cops are our very good friends, her friends for many years since she translates for them. We all go to dinner about once a month.

You need to negotiate for your hours. But watch the "office hours" - they often add up to 40 with the other stuff. That was one of my concerns.

And the uni degree is mandatory even for teaching kinda - the ruling is from the govt, for being a foreign expert. However, some places, as said before, get around it. It is tightening.

My understanding is that having a french name will be unimportant. Having a white face and a canadian, Usanian, Oz, etc passport is enough. They don't seem to care about accents, either, the ruling is the passport, and the subtext is whiteness.

Oh, yeah, and welcome. Not much Hapkido in guangdong though. It is home to my martial art, though.

[con's fly is open]

Welcome, Edges! Okay, here's my 2 fen, in no particular order:

The degree is a big deal. I don't have one, and I'm turning cartwheels. PM me if you want to know how I'm coping.

Having only 12 classroom hours for a fulltime gig (read: working visa and plane fare reimbursement) will be tricky outside of a university, but not miraculous. Search long and hard.

Office hours are a joke: it's partly so that Chinese teachers can ask you English questions, but mainly so the public can see a paleface on the premises- so you're stuck there, although they tend to be sttrict at first, then get lax as the year wears on. This is the ideal time to prepare your classes, but so long as you wear pants and don't hit anybody they won't care if you just stare out the window or build a ship in a bottle.

It's been my experience that folks that show up without much education but a TEFL/TESL cert with classroom practicum seem to step into the classroom and teach well within 2 weeks. I had no cert and floundered. Not only do you need it legally, I believe it will improve you as a teacher.

As to the woman thing, it's a rare foreign man who DOESN'T hook up in China. If you are attracted to Oriental women, you are on your way to the land of opportunity. Most laowai men I know in China are married... to locals. Results vary, as they always do in matters of marriage.

Lastly, you're Canadian- we often have French names. Emphasis that your native language is English, and Bob's your uncle- if they're worried, they'll ask to talk to you on the phone so they can hear your accent. And the French will actually help you: you have a facility with languages. In fact, you should know that there are positions for French teachers here and there. I'm told they pay well.

Do your homework, and China will treat you wonderfully. Use the Saloon's resources, ask around, and don't take any wooden jiao.

[Edges]

Thanks all for your input. One of the reassons I'm interested in Guangdong is the warm climate, though I'm a canuck I've been in California a long time ;D I don't mind outside cold weather at all, I do plenty of winter sports and I travel to Canada to spend the Holidays with family regularly, my worry is the "no heat in buildings til late November" thing.

My goal is to spend a year or two in China to be as close to fluent as possible and be fully immersed in the culture and learn about the business end of things (how things are done the "China way"). From everything I've read it's certainly a different world. Then I intend to return to University to acquire the skills required to work for a US/ CDN company in China. Perhaps I'm not being realistic, perhaps I'll end up teaching for a decade, who knows but for now that's my goal.

I have fairly realistic expectations. A flushing toilet, HEAT, hot water, electricity and internet at home. I'll be bringing my laptop, I don't mind paying for internet. Here's a question, how common are roaches in living quarters? I can deal with alot of stuff (beetles, silverfish etc) but roaches... ugh.

I didn't think there would be much of a demand for French teachers, it's something to look into for extra income. Guess that means I'd have to live in Bejing or Shanghai though.

From the sounds of it, it's a pain to get anything printed or photocopied. Has anyone noticed the prices there for portable "travel" computer printers? They're fairly cheap here but that's one more thing to replace the maple syrup books I plan to bring.

[Nate M]

Well, your chances of running into cockroaches get exponentially higher the further South you go, so if that's a big point of worry for you, Guangdong isn't where you want to be.

[Jollyjunklass]

Hi Edge,

Welcome! I am from Ontario, and the hot here is not something likable. I thought like you, wanted the south for the summers. Do I regret that, it feels like I am in a pressure cooker. I am in Hunan, so I would think Guangdong may be hotter. Not fun at all.

You do need a degree to teach at the Uni's here, but Decurso is right, you may be able to sneak by with the college degree. I am in a Uni. and there are teachers living with their girlfriends, unmarried. I have asked them if they get hassled, they claim they don't.

If you get into a Uni, you will be provided with a lot of amenities, here anyway. I have two air conditioners, which makes my living environment very comfortable, however, the classrooms are not air conditioned so get ready for some heat, worse than Arizona heat, if you ask me.

I was also afraid of the large classrooms. It is hard to get until you see it with your own eyes, but you don't need to be afraid. Hard to describe but the students are very young and have a much different mentality than the west. You will not feel intimidated, what is more intimidating are the everyday issues of trying to weasel your way around. This is what occupies your mind, the students seem easy after that.

Private schools have a lot more hours, but I can't comment much on how those hours are used, Uni's have a lot of perks, but maybe less pay. Far more than enough to get by on though. It seems like you can just spend everyday with no worries. Although, I haven't purchased anything large, money-wise I mean.

Start applying now, because it may take 4 months to get organized, send out the college diploma. Photocopying is a little difficult, they do not like to waste paper. Ask the school if it has a photocopier, some don't, some do.

In my Uni, internet is provides, as is air conditioning, water, cable, phone (minus long distance). Lots of little bonuses here and there. Uni's should provide return airfare, but you may have a hard time getting full airfare if you decide to go to Sichuan or Yunnan. Holidays are paid, and there are a few, Private schools, with kiddies may not provide the same holidays.

Anyway, nice to have you here and don't worry about the long posts, ask away. I think I am the master of questions and have a tendency to ponder way too much, so no worries there, you couldn't be any worse than me.

[Mr Nobody]

It isn't so much the heat as the humidity. Guangdong is seriously humid for summer. Where I am, Guangxi, is less so, but still oppressive. The temperature here and in other non-coastal southern areas drops considerably in winter, down to bloody cold, but probably not to a canadian. Guangdong, not so much. It is downright pleasant nearing winter but I havent been there in winter itself, except at the start of December.

The further from the coast, the bigger the temperature changes from winter to summer, in general. It is called 'the continental effect' in climatology and it is because the sea tends to buffer the temperature changes. But the sea also provides the humidity. That truly sucks.

[Jollyjunklass]

You're right the humidity is what is unbearable, today it is 88 here, and I can't wait for winter. Never thought I'd herar myself say that!! Bond, I am tempted to post a pic of these bites, I did not sleep a wink last night. I am bombarded with them. Have never experienced anything like this.

[Dragonsaver]

Cockroaches, cockroaches and then more cockroaches. We are starting to get them down to a minimum in the Foreign Experts Bldg. Mothballs in all the cupboards, drawers, floor corners etc. I have learned to do the 'CR stomp' a new dance for those new to China. Stuffing garbage bags under the door to the room keeps the night travelers out.

I am in Wuxi which is just north west of Shanghai. That will be as warm as you want it. Palm trees etc. It is approximately the latitude of northern Florida/ southern Georgia. Warm enough for an Ontario-an. It has been quite hot here this week 'T' shirts, shorts and sweat .

[Mr Nobody]

Few roaches here. Kill maybe two or three a week, max. Sprayed about two or three all season.

Few mozzies. No other bities, but the wife got a series of nasty bites that lasted for a week before settling down, and two weeks later they are still visible, but she scratches them. Don't know what caused them, none subsequent.

Didn't even see any bitey flies.

[Edges]

Lots of good info, thanks! ;D

You're right, after some thought I probably don't want to be in Guangdong. Plus seems like there's too many foreigners there already lol. (Shenzen etc) For my first gig I'd rather be in a decent size town, doesn't have to be Beijing or Shanghai but at least a place where I can purchase the basics and have some entertainment.

Today I talked to my landlord about sub-leasing my apartment, and I called around to find out storage space prices for my stuff, slowly taking the steps to get out of here. Going to work on updating my résumé this week and will start testing the waters. Before you know it you'll have another canuck to deal with

I'm more interested in amenities than salary, especially having an apartment off campus. (I know that may be hard to get) I plan on bringing my laptop, anyone know about the availability of portable printers? (travel size printers) Debating purshasing one here or not.

Thanks for the warm welcome, I'll be picking your brains the next few months ;D

[gengrant]

Edges, I am in Shenzhen...don't let these other 'posers' scare you away. SZ is a great place to live and work. Lots of places to choose from, so by doing your homework and being patient, you should be able to find exactly what you are looking for job-wise.

As far as relationships, check out www.shenzhenparty.com for all kinds of people looking for other people...they're in the classifieds section.

I've also posted a little bit of info on SZ somewhere in the saloon...may have to just search for it...

the only cockroach I have seen since I've been here has been smaller than 1/2 an inch...and that's all...no others. It is pretty hot here...I sweat my arse off each day walking to and from work. but on the good side, I have lost 10 pounds too...and I ain't talking the Pommey type!

Let me know if you have any other questions about SZ...I'd love to have you here and show you around a bit...feel free to PM me too if you'd like.

[Jollyjunklass]

Cockroaches aren't in my place, but it is brand new, so time will tell. But man, the cockroaches I see outside scare the poo out of me, largest roaches I have ever seen. Hate to have one of them creeping around.

[con's fly is open]

I've knocked 2 roaches off the table here at the internet bar already tonight- there goes a third, but he's leaving on his own.

Electronics prices and availability are decent here. I don't know much much about portable printers, let alone their availability, but my guess is you should just wait and buy one here. Alternately, there are tons of computer print shops, even in the smaller burgs, and they're not too pricey. You might consider going that route.

And believe me, we need all the Canucks we can get: they've begun spraying for Hogans, but it just doesn't work.

[George61]

Shandong is a great place. I've seen about 5 cockies in all the time I've been here. Maybe it's because I am soo naturally clean and tidy that my apartment couldn't support them.
Con, you are giving Suzhou a bad image recently. Is the gloss wearing off?

[Lotus Eater]

Why do you particularly want a place off campus? I have lived on campus for the length of time I have been here and never had any problems with privacy or other issues.

I have some pretty wild parties, people end up sleeping on couches, wherever and there is never a comment. In fact if I ask, they give me extra chairs from other empty apartments and help carry up the beer (and on one occasion, took away all of the empties and brought me back the money for them!).

Plus (where I am now especially) if anything goes wrong the FAO are in my apartment within 10 minutes fixing it. Lights, phones, computer, gas etc etc. I don't have to worry or argue about anything.

You are then a super easy commute to work - just wander across the campus 10 minutes after you wake if you want to have a shower - 2 minutes if you just fling clothes on! No bus worries etc.

[con's fly is open]

The shine on Suzhou endures; on my job, well, that remains to be seen.

[Mr Nobody]

Dance that tigger.