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Post by gretch on Dec 8, 2005 10:36:19 GMT 7
Have the requirements (just) changed regarding Z visa requirements? I just got this reply/email from my prospective school, I had asked them: What do you need to process my "Letter of Invitation"?
A medical exam? If so, do you have a form you require
for your school? Their response: Now the policy running in China is a little different from that before,"Letter of Invitation" has been cancelled.We need your medical exam to be used for apply for Work Permit in China, so you should call the Chinese Embassy in America to get the form and to be told which hospital you should go to take the medical exam.when did this change that you no longer need a letter of invite? And since I'm only doing a one semester term should I get the Z, or go w/ a buisness (F?) visa? I may travel, so I may be there longer than 6mo. I've done some looking on the web and found, for a Z, you need: an Official visa notice and a Certificate of Foreign Expert.  Any input? Gretch |
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Non-Dave
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Post by Non-Dave on Dec 8, 2005 16:38:46 GMT 7
Gretch, who is telling you this? Is it actually the school you are dealing with directly, or is it an agent/recruiter? The answer to that question would make a big difference to me in terms of how much I believe what they have said. If it is actually the school (and please forgive me if you've already answered that somewhere) I would be doing exactly what they say. If it's an agent/recruiter, well, the changes are news to me, and I'd be getting a second opinion or questioning whether they are on the level.
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Post by joe on Dec 8, 2005 17:21:51 GMT 7
It sounds bogus. Medical checks for foreigners are a rort in China. They're expensive and at the same time perfunctory, and you don't pay, your school does. It's a way of making more money off the back of this craze for English. (And that may be at the heart of this -- your proposed school does not want to pay.)
But the central government occasionally does suddenly change the rules with a view to stamping out feather bedding. (Witness the introduction of the new residence permits.) It may have happened. However the two Chinese embassies in the US and Canada I looked at don't show a change in their stated visa procedures.
I don't know. But I think it's bogus. A medical check for a residence permit is reasonable. A letter of invitation and a permission to work (a work permit) are documents reasonably required for a working visa issued outside of China, and they are also documents reasonably meant to be supplied by the supposed hiring institution. A medical check prior to entry sounds like quarantining, or like a school that does not have the legal ability to apply for work permits.
Did I read somewhere recently that Shandong is in the throes of instititing a new foreign affairs bureau? Is it in Shandong? Is it a school to which you have applied?
Edit: I just saw that you are planning a one semester working stint. That's probably what's doing it. A Letter of Invitation is traditionally a difficult thing for a school to get. Stuff to do with foreigners is stuff to do with money and control, so schools traditionally have had to suck up big time to provincial administrations for such letters. You school doesn't want to do it for a mere six-month contract.
It's a bad sign.
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nolefan
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Post by nolefan on Dec 8, 2005 17:29:41 GMT 7
The problem with China is the lack of consistency between what the local government says and what the embassies do.
The Z visa is only a sticker on your passports that allows you to enter the country for work purpose. Once you're in the country, it gets changed into an FRP (Foreign REsident Permit) and entitles you to have a FEC ( Foreign Experts Card). As per the law, you need an invitation letter from the Foreign affairs office of the school and another one from the foreign affairs office of the city directed. Both letters should be addressed the the embassy or consulate responsible for issuing your visa.
This past year, new regulations have been passed by the central government. these regulations are not clear and thus open to interpretation by the various local and international offices thus wrecking havoc on the visa/residency issues. What many provinces are doing right now is sticking with the only two visas that are easy enough to deal with: L ( tourist) and F ( Business).
You mentioned that you would only be here for 6 months so my advice (other might disagree) is to just go ahead and get an F visa then come on over. Once you're in the country, the school will sort the mess out with the local police bureau. In the worst case scenario, you'd get a free trip to Hong Kong to fix things.
just my two cents.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Dec 8, 2005 22:18:31 GMT 7
A medical exam prior to entry has been a standard part of the visa process at least some of the time for years now. I had to get one in the States before I first came, and then had to get the local checkup at the city Office For Inspection Of Livestock And Foreigners. The one back home is not a big deal; don't sweat it.
Chinese visa laws have undergone some pretty sweeping changes- the new residence permit stickers are just a small part of that. I'm trying to get a handle on all the changes but it isn't easy...especially from within China.
So, the fact that something seems different doesn't necessarily make it dodgy per se. Bottom line is that if the school can get you into China, and is promising you a residence permit in writing, that's probably about the best you can hope for.
Are you absolutely sure you are being promised a Residence Permit? In writing? A lot of schools, including some big-name outifts, refuse to supply an RP for anything less than a year. They'll steer you into an L or F visa and tell you "Everything Is Fine". If this place is giving you an RP for a short-term contract, there may be some reason for hope here...
BTW, the Foreign Expert Certificate/Work Permit comes first after the visa. A lot of the documents your school asks you to send or bring are actually for that, not for the visa or residence permit. The FEC/Work Permit then entitles you to get a Residence Permit.
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Post by gretch on Dec 9, 2005 2:05:39 GMT 7
Thanks.....But I'm now even more confused. Raoul, no I don't know if the school is offering me a Residance Permit, I never thought to ask. Should I worry about that for a 6 mo gig? When I worked in Beijing for a semester, in '03, I recieved a Letter of Invite, no prob, and got a Z. That situation was easier to get through, I had a lot of guanxi on my side, I got hooked up w/ that school by my (ex)Manderin teacher here in the states. Non-Dave: This is from the school itself, Changsha. So what do you all think coming over on just a F visa? That only allows you to be there 6 mo. , correct? And that FAO says call the embassey....They don't answer the phones much there, it's in NY!!! And I thought it was all "down hill" once I picked a school, HA!!!  |
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Post by Lotus Eater on Dec 9, 2005 6:58:02 GMT 7
The people I worked with last year who were here for 6 months didn't have a Foreign Experts Certificate (red book). They also didn't have at that time the green book - Residents Permit, they had a piece of paper that they were supposed to carry around with them at all times.
The best advice so far seems to be come over on whatever visa you can easily get, and from there let the school sort it out. They have the guanxi and experience. Many teachers arrive here on the tourist visa and have it sorted by the school after.
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Post by gretch on Dec 9, 2005 21:32:07 GMT 7
Thanks lotus, I think I may take that route. I am actually talking to 2 schools, about this. I haven't decided which I will work for. I wanted to see how they handled my questions on processing my visa. The one in Changsha, says that I need the medical exam, before I enter, to get the documents for me so I can apply for a Z. The other, in Xianyang, says they will start the process now for a Z or L. No problem.
I told the Changsha that some of the tests on the medical are very expensive(X rays and about 6 diff blood tests). They could cost up to and poss more than 300 US. She told me that is not too bad. Well for me it is. every nickel I have is being saved for bills while I'm in China. So it seems I will be going to Xianyang, they are more willing to work w/ me. Downside, I'd prefer the area of Changsha, and Xianyang only has one other FT there.
Oh well.....
Thanks,
gretch
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Post by gretch on Dec 9, 2005 21:37:52 GMT 7
Are you absolutely sure you are being promised a Residence Permit? In writing? A lot of schools, including some big-name outifts, refuse to supply an RP for anything less than a year. They'll steer you into an L or F visa and tell you "Everything Is Fine" Raoul, actually the school in Xianyang said I can come over on an L and they would "take care of everything", or if I felt more comfy coming over on a Z, they woud process for me. Am I setting myself up for probs if I come on a L? After all, it's only for 6mo. term. Thanks Gretch |
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Post by Lotus Eater on Dec 9, 2005 22:08:00 GMT 7
Raoul, actually the school in Xianyang said I can come over on an L and they would "take care of everything", or if I felt more comfy coming over on a Z, they woud process for me. Am I setting myself up for probs if I come on a L? After all, it's only for 6mo. term. Thanks Gretch KEEP this email - in triplicate in paper and then also in your computer files that you bring with you. Then take the easiest visa option, arrive, and let them sort it out. So far I haven't come across people who have had problems with changing the visa over when they have had school support. |
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Post by Raoul Duke on Dec 9, 2005 23:49:53 GMT 7
Gretch,
the school in Xianyang seems to be saying good things. The fact that they are willing to set up the Z for you now at least tells me they really are willing and able to go through with it.
The exam the Changsha school is wanting you to get while still at home is a pretty far cry from what I had to get and a pretty far cry from what I was thinking. Those tests could be run here for a small fraction of 300 US, but it sounds like that school is trying to stick you with some of these costs nonetheless. Boo, hiss.
The RP I guess is a judgment call.
The letter of the law says that you absolutely must convert a Z visa into an RP in order to draw a salary or rent an apartment within China, no matter how long the stay. It also says that the penalties for failing to do so are pretty stiff.
In actual practice thousands of expats are living and working here on L and F visas with no problems whatsoever.
I cannot recommend that anyone live and work in this country illegally. Yeah- the chances of you having problems are small. However, they are definitely not zero...encounter an angry cop, or alienate the wrong homey, and you could have yourself a serious problem. It can and does happen....
Feeling lucky?
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Post by gretch on Dec 10, 2005 1:32:12 GMT 7
Na, Never feel too lucky Raoul!  Guess that's why I've been looking into all this as much as i can. But I do get what you are all saying about what is law and what is done is too seperate cases, even more so than, say here in the states. The FT at Xianyang now went there w/ a tourist visa and he has no degree. I'm not sure what he has now, re: visa. He's been there for one term so far & plans to stay on next term. Regarding the law about renting apart and needing RP: I'll be living on campus, does that make a diff? BTW, how are chinese prisions anyway?  Gretch |
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Post by Lotus Eater on Dec 10, 2005 8:37:48 GMT 7
Living on campus makes no difference. Just makes things way less of a hassle for you. If they've said they will fix it, then they generally will - you already have the example of the FT currently there. Then too university doesn't want hassles with the PSB either - they like to keep their guanxi going because if there are any hassles on site with students etc they want to be able to hose them down. Not so certain about other private institutions though. But with a few thousand students wandering around, they like their own insurance.
Time to breathe out and take the easy option. They sound like they know what they are doing.
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Post by gretch on Dec 10, 2005 10:50:09 GMT 7
 Well, one hurdle has been jumped! I have choosen to sign with the school in Xianyang and the FAO there has said for me to get as much on the physical as I can that "is convenient" for me, and they are beginning the process of getting me my Z. The FAO even said that he wants me to come on a Z as it is better, legally, etc. So my gut tells me I can trust him (along w/ what I've been told by the lone FT there, also.) Everyone's advice, opinions, and experience have been so tremendously helpful. A big thanks to all for sharing all your tried and true experience and advice! So,  to you all..... Gretch
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Post by Edges on Dec 10, 2005 14:31:24 GMT 7
 Congrats Gretch! So when are you heading over to China?
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Post by Mr Nobody on Dec 10, 2005 14:39:05 GMT 7
Cool.
I got here on a tourist visa. One school could not convert, my current college did without and issue and got me a residence permit for a 4.5 month stay.
I was going to comment on my experiences, but Raoul covered more than I was going to, so I'll just leave it at "Cool. welcome to the monkey house."
When do you get here?
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Non-Dave
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Try Not! Do - or Do Not... There Is No Try!
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Post by Non-Dave on Dec 10, 2005 20:30:16 GMT 7
Yeah, Congrats Gretch ( sums it up nicely!) Come join us in the madhouse. The food's great and the drink's cheap! Small Hijack: I know it's not much by comparison to the lofty heights obtained by some of our number, but I just hit 100 posts - and not one pad in the bunch! I'll just have a small celebration here, on my own, in the cold, dark northern reaches of Hell China. |
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Post by Lotus Eater on Dec 11, 2005 2:14:53 GMT 7
Way to go Non-Dave. I'll drink with you - but would like you to be a little more reassuring about the far north given that I want to potter up there for part of spring festival. My Heilongjiang students are already scaring me into buying new shoes with big heavy treads and higher soles, plus more down gear!!
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Newbs
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If you don't have your parents permission to be on this site, naughty, naughty. But Krusty forgives
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Post by Newbs on Dec 11, 2005 3:22:16 GMT 7
Hey, ND, I have a little celebration for every hundred that I get to. Real feeling of achievement, ain't it. And I'm glad to see that you used your 100th for a useful posting. I can recall using my 100th posting to wish George a happy birthday!!! (Speaking of birthdays, I hope someone is monitoring that, hint, hint)
But, you mention no padding and only one small hijack. I think you'd better lift your game in those areas, mate.
Now please, let's chat about letters of invite. The problem for letters of invite, medicals, visas is that what Beijing says, and what is done in each province, aren't necessarily the same.
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Post by gretch on Dec 12, 2005 4:24:42 GMT 7
Edges, The school said come over about Feb. 16-19! But school starts Feb 20. I'd like to be there closer to the 15 at the latest .Want more time to prepare/adjust...The time I taught in Beijing I got there on a Friday afternoon and started teaching Mon. morning. My last day of work here in the states is Jan31, so I'm good on time. I dont' think they'd mind if I got there earlier. Oh yeah, edges....duck!  ;D Gretch |
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nolefan
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Post by nolefan on Dec 14, 2005 8:21:25 GMT 7
listen to the school in this matter because they might not be back from Spring Festival. Now that I think about it, they should be back by then but myabe the flat is not ready or whatever...
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Post by Lotus Eater on Dec 14, 2005 8:39:04 GMT 7
Ask if you can come earlier - tell them you would like to prepare. It will look good, and maybe they will be happy to accommodate you. At least you will find out why they said come at that time.
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Ruth
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Post by Ruth on Dec 15, 2005 8:54:12 GMT 7
If you can come earlier it will be easier on your body, too. Jet lag from where you are sucks. It takes me 3-4 days to get used to being on China time. When talking with the school, focus on the prep time, like Lotus said, but you could throw in the getting-the-body-on-China-time thing.
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Post by gretch on Dec 17, 2005 0:43:42 GMT 7
Thanks everyone!
The FAO there has been great so far, at least via email and on negotiations...So I think they will be flexable w/ that, too..
Gretch
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Post by Norbert Radd on Feb 18, 2006 20:20:20 GMT 7
Good luck. I would have advsed Jiangsu because it's closer to Shanghai.
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Guess that's why I've been looking into all this as much as i can. But I do get what you are all saying about what is law and what is done is too seperate cases, even more so than, say here in the states. The FT at Xianyang now went there w/ a tourist visa and he has no degree. I'm not sure what he has now, re: visa. He's been there for one term so far & plans to stay on next term. Regarding the law about renting apart and needing RP: I'll be living on campus, does that make a diff?
