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Post by Raoul Duke on May 10, 2006 20:02:25 GMT 7
Well, yeah, we do. Sort of. I take comfort from the fact that it must not be much fun to be a completely beautiful human being, either.
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Post by George61 on May 10, 2006 20:31:29 GMT 7
I would never say stuff like that!!
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Post by Raoul Duke on May 10, 2006 20:47:11 GMT 7
Actually, neither would I.
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Post by George61 on May 10, 2006 20:53:41 GMT 7
Well, if I could get in there, I probably would...especially tonight. I'm being a bastard to everyone tonight. Must be the stress!!
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woza17
SuperDuperBarfly!
Posts: 2,203
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Post by woza17 on May 10, 2006 22:43:26 GMT 7
George darling you can I am woza 17 3124 In my name you will fight the just and the righteous cause. Go for it get some hair off your chest
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Post by Raoul Duke on May 11, 2006 0:11:12 GMT 7
Us? Trolling? Please don't... We have no real beef with CTF. Let's not start one.
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Post by George61 on May 11, 2006 4:16:10 GMT 7
Perish the thought!!
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Ruth
SuperDuperMegaBarfly
God's provisions are strategically placed along the path of your obedience.
Posts: 3,915
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Post by Ruth on May 11, 2006 14:54:26 GMT 7
I wasn't one of the members burned by this, and I'm not a member at CTF, but that statement of Miss Piggy's bothers me. What makes her think the administrators of this forum are partly responsible for the financial loss of some of its members? You post information in good faith. What we do with it is our own choice. The fact that someone else screws up royally doesn't reflect on you or the forum, IMHO.
Circle the wagons. The hair on the back of my neck is standing on end. Grrrrrr....
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Post by JoshatDrPauls on May 11, 2006 15:24:17 GMT 7
Haha... yes, that's true... I've quit as the recruiter for Dr. Paul's due to the shoddy and irresponsible businessmanship I was asked to be an instrument of and my boss' clear lack of regard for the sanctity of agreements.
That being said, it's still a decent school, where teachers are treated and paid very well, once they're actually hired. I hate to think I've contributed to a Jihad against a pretty good school. Anyway, flame away... just wanted to say my piece.
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Loops
Barfly
Raoul, after a day reading the garbage we dump on his forum...
Posts: 389
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Post by Loops on May 11, 2006 16:14:28 GMT 7
We don't flame here at the Saloon...we warm things up!
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Post by tusker on May 11, 2006 18:26:36 GMT 7
howdy all,
i'm a new member here. i was one of the people who applied for the Dr. Paul's job, but i was never given an offer of any sorts. i spoke with the owner of the school a few times, and i took a tour of their facilities a couple of weeks ago. i was impressed with their operation and was hopeful for an offer (there aren't too many jobs out there that offer that sort of money...).
now that all of this bad stuff has happened i've been forced to reconsider my options. that being said, i'm still going after this job. i'm already in china, so i have nothing to lose really. if they offer me the job, i'm gonig to take it.
anyone else feeling the same thing? or am i the only money-grubbing moron here?
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woza17
SuperDuperBarfly!
Posts: 2,203
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Post by woza17 on May 11, 2006 18:33:40 GMT 7
What is CTF anyway? I just unsubscribed from Tefl teachers because it was boring and unhelpful and kept filling up my mail box, Martin Wolf, Raoul's mate is a member. I think the probelm was they were all teachers.
I think it is a bloody hard thing to recruit for schools they bloody change their minds all the time and you are in the middle with no real power and then you end up looking like an idiot, when in fact you have really only tried to connect teachers with schools. Not a position to be taken lightly, very frustrating.
I've looked at life from both sides now and they look pretty similiar but one is backwards
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Post by Norbert Radd on May 11, 2006 19:08:53 GMT 7
True story: I recruited a foreign teacher for a school in Korea and then got fired for no cause. The happy ending is that the manager got fired who fired me and then I was asked to come back because the foreign teacher I recruited quit.
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Loops
Barfly
Raoul, after a day reading the garbage we dump on his forum...
Posts: 389
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Post by Loops on May 12, 2006 1:44:51 GMT 7
Norad: nice headache that musta been!!
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Post by Mr Nobody on May 13, 2006 10:47:20 GMT 7
My head hurts just thinking about it, or was that the bloody marys?
Yeah, woza, I see your point. Josh was caught in the middle. Bad luck.
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Post by JoshatDrPauls on May 13, 2006 17:08:53 GMT 7
Haha... okay. Just wanted to let you guys know that I'll be putting this up on the Internet, since I still have a feeling of responsibility towards the school.
This is an account of a hiring "incident" that occurred at Dr. Paul's Language Center in Qingdao, which has made several members of the online ESL teachers' community very angry, and reasonably so. I was the recruiter during these events. Sun Woo Shim, the president of the small school, asked me to help him find new teachers to fill seven positions spread out at as-yet-undefined spaces between May and September. Sun Woo's English isn't so hot, and he tends to change his mind a lot, so this was no easy task, but ultimately, we decided together on a number of teachers that would be appropriate for these positions. Sun Woo asked me to send them contracts, and I believe I very clearly, slowly, and repeatedly asked him if I was "giving them jobs with Dr. Paul's" at this juncture. He agreed. After I sent out these contracts, he renigged some of his offers, saying that as he had not yet SIGNED his end of the contract with these teachers he had promised them nothing, leaving me to break the news to these unfortunate teachers. Due to the messiness of this ordeal and the unreliability of agreements made with Sun Woo, I decided to quit working for Dr. Paul's. Sun Woo has recently explained to me that he at no time intended to make a solid job offer to those teachers, and that I had simply rushed him beyond his current English capabilities. I still have no intention of continuing to work for Dr. Paul's in any capacity except to ensure the completion of all agreements between Dr. Paul's and other teachers that remain intact that I expedited, but this explanation is plausable. As someone who has TAUGHT at Dr. Paul's, and who has gained something of an understanding of the mind of it's principal, I would like to make a few things ABSOLUTELY CLEAR to all people who may be interested in working at Dr. Paul's in the future: 1. No TEACHER has ever been screwed with, manipulated, misled, or coerced in any way during employment with this EXCELLENT school. The same cannot be said of recruiters. 2. The class sizes are small, the school modern and surprisingly well-organized, and the pay sizable and always on time. 3. Any person holding a contract SIGNED by Sun Woo has no reason for concern. Anyone not holding a contract without his signature should never assume that he or she has been guaranteed a job. Take everything told to you by young eager-to-please teachers/recruiters with a grain of salt. Sun Woo seems to be at a bit of a loss as far as dealing with the subsequent negative PR. From his cultural perspective, his blunder is not a terribly big deal. He's learning FAST however, and is very upset by the negative reviews of his school quickly filling the Internet as a result of his mistakes. He particularly angered members of a very spirited online community from Raoul's China Expat Saloon, who have declared a PR "Jihad" against Dr. Pauls. As someone who holds many fond memories of this school in my heart, I want this account to stand on the Internet so that people will have a clear idea of what has occurred at this school and can make up their minds for themselves regarding whether they would like to apply for a job there in the future. Honestly, I would recommend it. It's a very good school.
Additionally, it should be known that I personally contacted each of those teachers, so Raoul's statement that they were given a brief regection with no explanation is wholly inaccurate.
I still like Raoul, though.
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Post by Raoul Duke on May 14, 2006 0:56:26 GMT 7
Uh, Josh, I've read back through the history of this entire incident. While I can see evidence that you had talked with them on the phone, I can't find any indication anywhere that any of those with a complaint had ever gotten anything resembling a satisfactory explanation of their sudden unemployment.
Your mention today of Dr. Shim's "language oopsie" is the first I'd seen of it.
If further injustice has been done nyone, it's possible we could work together to try and fix it, which could be a lot better than not working together....
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Post by George61 on May 14, 2006 3:43:23 GMT 7
I did get an email from Josh today, apologising, but previously, I only recieved the "oops, sorry, the contracts have been cancelled"
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Loops
Barfly
Raoul, after a day reading the garbage we dump on his forum...
Posts: 389
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Post by Loops on May 14, 2006 3:43:57 GMT 7
If further injustice has been done nyone, it's possible we could work together to try and fix it, which could be a lot better than not working together.... It's in your best interest to work with Raoul...you don't wanna be on the receiving end, it ain't purty!
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Post by Raoul Duke on May 14, 2006 16:03:07 GMT 7
Good heavens!
Thanks, Loops, but no...not this time.
There isn't even a smidgen of threat implied anywhere in there. It just occurs to me that if there's been a mistake, it makes more sense for us to try and correct it together rather than having us each out there shouting conflicting messages. I'm on the side of the truth, whatever that may be.
Unfortunately, it sounds like we still have a message conflict. George's post seems to confirm my earlier impression that no real explanations were given as to why people were finding themselves suddenly unemployed again...until now.
Please don't set me up to sound like some kind of badass EFL Godfather. I'm not and I don't think of myself that way. I'm just this guy, ya know? But there are times to use the power that all of us together can represent, and abuse of expat teachers- especially our own members- seems like a pretty good time.
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Post by Mr Nobody on May 14, 2006 22:16:39 GMT 7
Yeah. Fixing mistakes is a lot better than Jihad. I have to live on this planet, this country a long time.
Of course, jihad is always an option en extremo.
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Loops
Barfly
Raoul, after a day reading the garbage we dump on his forum...
Posts: 389
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Post by Loops on May 15, 2006 1:23:25 GMT 7
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woza17
SuperDuperBarfly!
Posts: 2,203
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Post by woza17 on May 15, 2006 16:09:42 GMT 7
A while back I posted that our company hopefull will do another summer camp with a middle school and that I would post the jobs once it was confirmed and the contract signed. well the contract was signed and I was getting enough applications from the other Summer camp that it was not urgent to post straight away. Luckily I didn't the school has now changed its mind because the new principal is worried about the central government directive regarding students taking extra curriculum activities and the cost to the students. I don't understand the thinking behind this whether they want a level playing field or not to overburden the students. So we are back to one camp I have enough teachers now so far and the teachers from the forum if you are having second thoughts now is the time to tell me so that I can e-mail the other applicants who by the way I have not accepted yet thank God. I would hate to be in that position. It is such a bugger organising these things. I wouldn't be surprised if the boss tries to co-operate with another school
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Ruth
SuperDuperMegaBarfly
God's provisions are strategically placed along the path of your obedience.
Posts: 3,915
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Post by Ruth on May 15, 2006 22:24:02 GMT 7
No second thoughts from Roger M or me. We'll be there unless something out of our control prevents it. (Did I just jinx us? I sure hope not. I don't believe in stuff like that. Touch wood anyway.)
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Post by Raoul Duke on May 17, 2006 12:48:30 GMT 7
Hamish, your take here, please. Did you get any kind of explanation of the Qingdao dealings earlier?
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