|
Post by solongtinik on Jul 28, 2006 11:11:42 GMT 7
i'm receiving 3k right now with a maximum 16 hours load while my native speaker (doesnt sound like) workmate receives 5k. is it because im under an agency or is it because im "underexperienced?" or worst, is it because im a filipina?
advice please!!!!!!!!!
i really wanna leave the place soon but am still looking for a good school!
whew! reading the posts here make me realize how STUPID i am to agree with this set-up!
STUPID? YES!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
woza17
SuperDuperBarfly!
Posts: 2,203
|
Post by woza17 on Jul 28, 2006 15:02:04 GMT 7
No it is not fair and you really have my sympathy. It is the Chinese mindset. I have a friend from the Phillipines, she teaches Brazillians English, they see no problem unlike the Chinese, it also helps she knows some Portuguese. In the training VCD for New Interchange none of the teachers are native speakers the first teahcer in the classroom on the VCD is a lady from the Phillipines teaching in Korea, she does a fantastic job. Brilliant Wake up China there are some very highly qualified teaqchers from the Phillipines with great energy, no you would prefer to hire an idiot with a white face.
|
|
|
Post by Missi on Jul 28, 2006 16:40:09 GMT 7
Need I say why I love the New Interchange material??? I love how their pictures show foriegners in all our shapes and sizes and colours.
|
|
|
Post by Mr Nobody on Jul 28, 2006 17:17:12 GMT 7
No, I agree it isn't fair, and what Woza said about idiots with white faces is only too true too often, but I can't see what can be done about it either.
|
|
|
Post by Lotus Eater on Jul 28, 2006 18:49:32 GMT 7
Fair it isn't - but I don't know if it is because of the agency (they are probably creamiing some of your wage off the top and you may not know about it) or ethnicity. See if you can check your agency contract with the school. However, there are also places which pay less - even to white faces. One place I know of was paying 2400 to white faces - because they was hired through religious organisations who were prepared to place people in those situations for their 'greater goal". Japanese teachers - even with Masters degrees frequently get less than 3000RMB. And whether it is livable or not depends on where you are, cost of living and how you want to spend your money. Top class imported wine and cheese every night is going to put a major hole in 12,000 a month.
|
|
|
Post by Mr Nobody on Jul 28, 2006 21:24:44 GMT 7
I have spoken to several filipinas who teach/have taught in China and they do seem to get less pay despite equal or better qualifications and experience. Well, mine is a limited experience, but it fits what I have been told by others. One girl had gone back to HK (that was where I met her) where she was from, and went back to work as a secretary because it paid better, trying to raise money to bring her kids over to HK from the Phillipines, where they were finishing up in boarding school.
At my college here they have a Vietnamese girl teaching Vietnamese. Her English is as good as the English teachers, and she speaks fluent Chinese, from what Mrs N said like a native speaker. They pay her a little more than half what I get, and no bonuses etc.
She is also really nice and easy on the eyes, too. Not bad to have as a neighbour.
|
|
Decurso
Barfly
Things you own end up owning you
Posts: 581
|
Post by Decurso on Jul 29, 2006 2:20:50 GMT 7
It's not just people from non-native speaking countries who have this problem.I had to give a speach today to over 100 English teachers..and I accidentally exploded into a tirade about racist Chinese hiring policies.
I basically said that there were thousands of people in Canada with Chinese and Indian faces who had Canadian birth certificates and Canadian passports...and possibly were better English teachers than me..but could never expect to get the same teaching oppurtunities in China a white person can.Why?Chinese schools want a white face to promote their school.They all laughed because they knew exactly what I meant.Did it change anything?Probably not.But I'm glad to have had a public forum to speak out in..even if it's not what they expected.
|
|
woza17
SuperDuperBarfly!
Posts: 2,203
|
Post by woza17 on Jul 29, 2006 14:45:19 GMT 7
Decurso, good on you darling. I hope people will think about what you said. The other day I was in the bosses fofice waiting ro him to finish an interview with a guy form the US and I was reading stuff on his desk there was a resume from a lady from the Phillipines, very impressive. Her Quals were amazing. I got caught up in our meeting but I will question my boss about what will he do with her
|
|
|
Post by Raoul Duke on Jul 29, 2006 15:38:13 GMT 7
Hear, Hear, Decurso! I envy you that chance. My contacts who are "desperate for teachers" quickly back away when I mention the word "Philippines". I really want to on them when they do that.
|
|
|
Post by Raoul Duke on Jul 29, 2006 15:40:28 GMT 7
By the way, it should be noted that the Chinese are always the first and loudest to bitch and whine about how badly they are treated in other countries.
|
|
|
Post by Missi on Jul 30, 2006 5:35:42 GMT 7
Are they badly treated in other countries? I don't know, I lived in a place with maybe one or two Chinese people and can't really answer this question.
|
|
woza17
SuperDuperBarfly!
Posts: 2,203
|
Post by woza17 on Jul 30, 2006 21:29:15 GMT 7
This evening I took one of the Chinese English teachers out for dinner. We have known each other for 3 years. We talked about the Chinese English teachers in the classroom what an eye opener that was, she confirmed what I thought. The language centre just hires anyone. This has to change, also with the foriegn teachers. Today in class the FT in the more advanced class he is just yelling the students had no chance to speak. Tommorow I have a meeting with the bosses, we really have to address this problem
|
|
|
Post by con's fly is open on Jul 31, 2006 19:27:58 GMT 7
Solong, to summarize, Filipanos, and especially -nas, get pay less for 3 reasons: 1. Not white enough. 2. Not the right accent. 3. RMB exchange better for Filipno money than for,say, Canadian loonies. We don't get paid as little because we simply cannot accept that little and have any money at all when we visit home. In that sense, you have one mild advantage over me: your savings will go farther back home. Cold comfort, I know, if you save so much less in the first place. But then, your plane fare is cheaper. My school is paying me out a measly $800 US, which wouldn't even quite get me home, much less back to China. Yes, the system stinks, thanks to a combination of prejudiced parents, sleazy schools, international monetary policy... and the meekness of Filipino teachers themselves. Like I said before many times, compare notes with as many FTs from the Phillipines, other developing countirs, and Western countries, as you can. Your main goal here is to assess your real market value. That depends on a combination of hours taught a week, size of the centre in which you'll live, experience teaching, experience living in China, command of Chinese, Teaching credentials, and credentials in related areas.
|
|
|
Post by Mr Nobody on Aug 5, 2006 15:21:03 GMT 7
One more thing. I don't think that Filipinas can get a z visa. I seem to remember that the legislation specifically refers to England, Oz, Ireland, Canada, South Africa and some other country(s). USAnia from memory was also specifically mentioned, but under a different name.
|
|
|
Post by solongtinik on Aug 7, 2006 18:41:15 GMT 7
i guess chinese people are just envious/jealous about the fact that english is the 3rd english speaking country...
con's, u're right with that fact but believe me there are more filipinos who have that western accent.
|
|
|
Post by Mr Nobody on Aug 7, 2006 19:31:39 GMT 7
Please don't take my previous post as definitive. I would like it to be wrong, and it may well be. However, I think it is correct. Sorry about that. I hate breaking bad news to good people.
|
|
|
Post by solongtinik on Aug 8, 2006 14:31:28 GMT 7
it's nothin fella... no bitchin' here im sure....
|
|
|
Post by cheekygal on Aug 8, 2006 16:02:14 GMT 7
I know a girl from US who is Thai by background. She worked in Zhuhai and parents used to literally refuse to send children in her class because... she looked Asian. They didnt care that she was totally American and had no accent whatsoever and kids in fact loved her. Another friend of mine also in Zhuhai, from Malaysia, Indian background, suffered few years from discrimination in the classroom because he was ... too black. He finally did earn a stable great reputation but then he was gone and now he owns a school in one of the small towns in Guangdong province. Married to Chinese, by the way! I had to and till now sometimes have to pretend to be American because apparently parents care more for citizenship and not my white face. But my dance-English class that I described in another thread was created actually based on my knowledge and skills as a teacher and parents are perfectly fine with my origin... Not all Chinese are narrow minded in that area. And I believe a lot depends on how the school promotes their teachers. Solo, I really feel for you. I have a lot of Philipino friends who speak perfect English. Being an non-Native speaker myself I do strongly believe that at times people like us can succeed in teaching better than Native speakers just because we know how it is to study the language. Sorry, guys (Native speakers), I don't mean to say YOU LOT are bad teachers, but I have met quite a few Native speakers who were kept in schools just for the facts described above. One of my motos is "Unity in Diversity". I know that in some near future Chinese teachers will *beat* us, foreigners. But that will happen when the general outlook on the world and the acceptance of that diversity will be implanted with a strong sense of understanding in the minds of the local people. That's when we would have to have MBAs, PhDs, MAs etc to be accepted to job positions because ESL certificates won't be sufficient anymore.
|
|
|
Post by con's fly is open on Sept 3, 2006 10:07:13 GMT 7
Chekky, I agree: non-native speakers have a certain advantage. I learned English from my crib, and, needless to say, don't remember the process. I believe a Chinese teacher should be involved in some way throughout the beginning stages of learning English; I'd further say that exposure to teachers from many countries, both Anglo- and not, is a tremendous advantage. There is an International English slowly forming, one that will gradually select words and grammar that are more accessible to the ESL student. Some of us have lamented the loss of English's aesthetic beauty in the name of simplicity (I among them), but this, I think, is a sad but necessary casualty of my native tongue's success.
|
|
|
Post by Jollyjunklass on Nov 9, 2006 17:45:45 GMT 7
Hey Solong, I too feel bad for you and think this is so unfair. I often marvel that I have this job, only because of where and what colour I was born, luck of the draw I guess. This fact amazes me. There are also many other quirky things because you are white and speak English. People coming up to you, hugging you, giggling insanely, honoured to just touch you...it's all too freaky and very difficult for me to understand. However, something happened to me the other day that made me think, hey maybe I can understand this madness. All my life I have been fascinated by monks. I have no idea why, maybe because we don't see many monks in Canada. So there I was in this temple and it was my first time to see a monk, I was so excited and I wanted to take a picture immediately, so I started snapping away. One of the monks came over to say hello to me and I shyly asked him if I could take a picture with him. When he said yes, I was very thrilled. Now there were other monks that wanted nothing to do with the picture taking, and I felt how dare they since the Chinese are constantly snapping pictures of me without my permission, at least I had the decency to ask. I also feel this excitement when I meet minority people. As I was leaving the temple I met an old monk, he called me over and brought me into a temple to bless me. Needless to say, I couldn't believe my luck. I felt privileged. So when I left I began to analyze why I felt such a rush. As I was pondering this I began to understand the Chinese (and their reaction to foreigners) a little clearer. I usually work in places that are a little remote so they haven't seen a lot of foreigners, so when they do............. Actually, I am a little off topic here, but what I want to say is I guess I can understand a little of their reasoning. With you being Filipino, maybe they consider you one of them, not so different so in essence they treat you the same as they treat one another, which means crappy pay. I do believe it is because you are Filipino (without meaning to hurt you, just being honest from my own experiences). It's pathetic if you ask me, you are receiving this pay only because of where you were born and what colour you are. And Decurso, congratulations, looks good on ya!!!!! I have a situation where my school says I MUST make an hour speech to a group of Chinese leaders and teachers. I have flat out refused, stating I am much too shy to pull off something like this, they just chuckle and ignore me and ask me what my topic will be. There is one other girl here who has refused to do it also, so when the time comes we will bond together and refuse, we have promised each other we will not cave in. We are not too crazy over the foreign affairs office and perhaps, they are not too crazy over us. They say this speech is a University tradition, and if we do not do it they will lose face. We say it is not in our contract and perhaps, if it would have been, we would have refused the job. They have resorted to indirect threats. WHATEVER. Anyway when ever I think about this speech, I think to myself well I know what I could easily spend an hour talking about, however I don't think they will appreciate it too much. And wouldn't it all backfire in their face My speech would be along the same lines as your tirade and knowing myself, it would be a very passionate rant about the injustices I see in China and how blind the Chinese are to them. What do you think, should I go for it? I can't imagine what the reaction might be.
|
|
|
Post by Lotus Eater on Nov 10, 2006 6:56:29 GMT 7
Why not do as they ask? They have invited you to make a speech to dignitaries etc. This would be considered a bit of an honour back home - keynote speaker - here you get to do it because of your skin not your other qualifications. You could, if you wanted to, discuss differences in educational systems and the changes you see happening in Chinese education. This would fit in with what the school is wanting, plus give you a bit of leeway to make some suggestions without risking your job. But don't forget the majority of the dignitaries won't be able to understand English anyway!!
|
|
Ruth
SuperDuperMegaBarfly
God's provisions are strategically placed along the path of your obedience.
Posts: 3,915
|
Post by Ruth on Nov 10, 2006 7:11:08 GMT 7
Also off topic, but I feel I must comment. I won't say ALL, because I'm not sure if that is true, but MOST of the temples I have been in here in China have requested no photos be taken. Often these signs are in Chinese that I can't read, but my friends have told me. Or a guide has motioned to my camera to let me know through body language. Not sure what the situation was in the temple you were in. However, the temple is their place of worship, not just a tourist attraction. I always try to remember that when visiting. There are several places I would have loved to snap a shot - one in particular had gorgeous tapestries, but I respected their wishes. I try to imagine how I would feel if someone came into church back home while I was worshipping and started snapping away. I've had to perform - on stage singing three years now for Teachers Day. This is not something I am comfortable doing. But I did it because it was expected of the foreign teacher. Not in my contract, per se, but an expectation. The school doesn't ask much of me. I survived. An hour is a long time to give a speech. Especially, as Lotus said, when most of the people there won't understand you. Could you negotiate for a shorter time? Would they be providing an interpreter? This could be a chance for you to express your views - in a diplomatic way, of course. I've learned that in doing things that are difficult for me I always grow. My mom was really good at forcing encouraging me to do things on my own, even if I didn't want to. So I learned that even if I'm uncomfortable the earth will not open and swallow me.
|
|
Crippler
Barfly
Beware the conspiracy!
Posts: 345
|
Post by Crippler on Nov 10, 2006 10:45:59 GMT 7
Pure and simple, I ask before shooting if the picture is in someone's place of worship and/or if people are identifiable. I find it very rude to have unwanted pictures taken. Other people's rudeness does not affect my manners.
|
|
|
Post by Lotus Eater on Nov 10, 2006 11:39:59 GMT 7
There are pictures I would have sold my children to have been allowed to take - but they were as intrusive as hell and in no way could I have taken them with a clear conscience. So they are stored in what my friend calls a 'heart pictures' album. Pictures you carry in your heart because you can't have them on film.
I have occasionnaly been lucky enough to have been allowed to take photos in the temple - but it's pretty rare and I am happy to respect that. On one or 2 occasions the monks have actually asked me to take photos of them in their temple - but that was way unusual!
But public places I figure is fair game, so I will snap away. If I am in people's workplaces (shops etc) I always ask if it is OK - I imagine my reaction if a visitor wandered through my workplace or home and just started snapping away without permission or the decency to bother asking.
|
|
|
Post by Hamish on Nov 10, 2006 12:09:13 GMT 7
Sigh...
I am sooo far out of sync with this consensus.
My latest read (With which I completely agreed.) Harris, "The End Of Faith."
|
|