Relationship with students

[Lotus Eater]

How do you handle the students who offer to be your friend? Back home there is a very clear divide between being friendly and friends. I am happy to be friendly - while maintaining a professional distance, so that if necessary I can fail students who do not reach the required standards.

However, so many students here say "I would like to be your friend" Male and female. What is the concept of friendship they are talking about. Does it involve more than spending a lot of time talking English to them? IE passing them if unwarranted? Many will also ask for address, email or phone contacts. I am wary about this info - although given I live on campus, it's pretty easy to figure out where I live - just not which apartment.

Many of the students seem to be very nice people, which if they weren't my students I would enjoy socialising with. Am I offending them, if I gently ignore the requests for contact info?

How have you handled it?

[Raoul Duke]

It's all in your own tastes and comfort level, plus who your students are.

Adult students are one thing...I've always tried to keep these classes on an equal footing and it ain't no thang to go have a few beers or watch some DVDs or whatever with them.

Kids (including university students) are a different story. I might accept an invite to dinner or something, but I've always maintained a degree of separation here. I've become friends with (and given my phone numbers to) exactly one student in this category...and the phone number thing was just last week.

Again, go with what's comfortable for you. You have to protect the rights you want, because God knows they won't. Make it clear, if needed, that friendship doesn't extend to favoritism in grading, etc. (I tell mine I'm tough on performance because I'm their friend, and I care about them...) If you feel doing something will compromise you, don't do it. If you really feel friendly towards a student, be friends with them...you'll quickly learn to distinguish real friends from leeches out for a free English lesson or leverage for a better grade.

And do feel free to keep your personal phone numbers private if you really don't want to give it to someone. If they get offended, that's their problem. Certainly better than 7:30am calls from failing students asking "Can you help me?" that go on to beg, wheedle, and threaten for 2 hours. I give them an e-mail address...for a separate, work-related e-mail account. And nothing else.

[burlives]

From what I have observed Chinese teachers give out telephone numbers. And they get a fair volume of calls out of it too. But they handle it differently. The teacher is more or less the leader for the student and that's how they act on the telephone. That's what the student is expecting when they say "be friends." See, they sugar coat the utilitarian side. Instead of saying "can you be a useful contact for me," the student will say "I hope we can be friends." And they sugar coat it because the teacher is supposed to be a leader, not an equal, and you can't make bald use of your leader without expecting to be slapped down.

I'm not sure if the Chinese students actually say "pengyou" to their Chinese teachers but I doubt it. They say "friend" to foreigners because with foreigners, everything's wacky. The students kind of know that we are not Chinese so they kind of know that we are not going to be their leaders but they also kind of can't escape what they think is the best way of succeeding. But I doubt that the students generally intend to manipulate assessment perks out of their "friends." Not that they would be above having a try, a pout here, a flounce there, even from boys, for god's sake.

Bottom line: when they say "friend," they are using a word from Chinese Standard English. That standard is being generated by the sheer volume of Chinese learning English in relative isolation from World Standard English. The meaning of words and structures is being reinvented, corrupted even, by a process that causes sophisticated understandings of English to be dependent on understanding and using Chinese.

It is further corrupted by knowing that foreigners woefully fail to be Chinese.

[Number One Son]

I try to keep my contact info fairly private, but I don't
have a problem giving out e-mail addresses to students
of any age. I usually just post it on the chalkboard so
everyone can copy it if they wish. I don't want to
appear to have favorites, so if one asks, I tell them
all.

Giving out phone numbers and inviting them to my
place is an entirely different matter. I don't do it.

If they wish to contact me after finishing their
coursework, I give them my e-mail address.

I don't like being bothered by phone calls, so
I try to only let people contact me by phone
through the school.

I shared a place with a teacher who let a lot
of people have his number and I could hardly
find a moment's peace.

[Hamish]

Sallie and I distribute our email addresses and phone number to all who ask for them and have students in our home very frequently.

We have several students and staff members in our home almost every day. We schedule a faculty “western style” dinner with staff and some students almost every week. It is a way in which we can encourage free form English conversation.

That is why we came to China.

However, we are also very open and frank with anyone who calls or comes over as to whether we are willing to accept an interruption or visit at the moment. We always instruct those who ask for our phone number not to call before 0800 or after 2200, and NEVER to visit without calling first.

[OffTheWall]

In response to a good question, Lotus Eater, you received some excellent responses.

I particularly enjoyed some of Burl Ives' comments, on language meaning & usage--especially as it applies to "pengyou." Really good stuff.

[Roger]

Actually, the CHinese society lacks privacy so much anyone will post important particulars including mobile phone numbers anywhere. Ever seen personal classifieds giving a lady's phone number? They come by the ton.

It's just that we make much more out of the term "friend".
Chinese even call kiddies 'xiao pengyou"; this seems to be the formal address used in kindergartens and on public transport!

Generally, I have fared well sharing some - but not all! - such info with young learners. Some girls did try to get advantage out of it, but that's another story altogether.

Personally, I want to retain some breathing space; it's difficult for example maintaining a 'call-first' rule; most ignore this.

The one rule that I am not willing to ignore is: proper address! I don't want to be referred to by minors as "roger". They must use my surname prefixed with "Mr".
That's what they have to do in addressing their Chinese teachers; not insisting on this formality is, in my view, an open invitation to abuse!

[George61]

Oh what a stuffy ole bastard you are Roger..oops, sorry..Mr. Roger......I don't mind the kids using my first name....John Laoshi sounds better than Laowei..(hope my Pinyin spelling is correct)..heh,heh.

[Lotus Eater]

I have told students they may call me my first name or Ms Surname, and often get Miss or Mrs, but today ended up with Madam! I'm a teacher for crying out loud - how come they think I run a brothel?

Other new teachers (2) here suggested that the students called them professor, but later was told by one student that it appears arrogant, and therefore was not a good start!

What do you think?

[Lotus Eater]

On a different note: I have given the students the option of me calling them by their Chinese name or the western name they have chosen. It has worked out about 50/50. But some of the western names are killers!

A boy called Amethyst, others: Angelfish, Winter, Korant, Kobesniper, Spirit, Magic, Seven, Eleven, Lemon, Echo, Jolly, Star, Bird, Moulie, Batti (I hope she means Betty).

I will have to have a serious talk with some of them if they truly want to work in International business areas.

I think I've hijacked my own thread - bad girl!

[wOZfromOZ]

G'day

For nearly 30 years now I've found that the "Mr. Warren" has been very successful. You'll get a lot calling me "Thompson" but I quickly correct them for their perceived lack of manners and all immediately and appologetically rephrase and go on to profusely appologise - only happens once ...only needs to happen once so I'm with you Roger - setting standards .... something very foreign to many English learners here - but it doesn't take long when they're given parameters to work within. I also apply the rules stated by Raoul and Hammish - good advice indeed.

wOZfromOZ

[Sandgropers]

Two contributions here from me ;D

1. Like Hamish, we give our phone number to ALL the students in our classes BUT remember, they are young adults..............not sure if we'd do the same with kids.
Also like Hamish, we set perameters whereby we tell the students in no uncertain manner ONLY to phone between 9am - 9pm and NEVER just call at the apartment . Always make arrangements to visit us by phoning first or talking to us in class. So far, this seems to have worked well for us

2. Lotus, I think we have all experienced some strange and wonderful names as selected by the students here. In an 'English for Business' class recently I went to great pains to point out and explain how inappropriate some of their chosen English names were. Out of 43 students only one girl remained firm on her chosen name of 'Sunshine'..................can't win them all...........the rest of the class changed and adopted my recommended proper English names. In the students defence, I think it is our duty as FTs to explain the appropriateness or inappropriateness of their names............surely it is all part of cultural awareness and understanding.

Cheers

[Lotus Eater]

Thanks for all of the advice. I have decided to give my email address to each class, but have set my filter to only permit those on my contact list, so they have to give me their addresses first! The filter was set this way well prior to this - it stopped all of those enlarge your penis ads, that I felt were not helpful, arriving!

I won't be giving my phone number, because at this stage I actually don't remember it - maybe if I tried really hard, but it doesn't flow easily - I am just as likely to go into automatic mode and give them my Oz work number!

What about the invitations to visit their place?

I thought I may once a month have a games night - language (Scrabble etc) or business (Monopoly, Billionaire) and invite them over a few at a time? I know many of them are totally flat stack so will not come anyway.

[Wolf]

I give out my phone number and a special email address I set up for students as a matter of course. I live on campus, and so do all my students. I prefer that they have some way to reach me if needs be (ie if they need more time for an assingment, etc.)

I don't mind students coming over for a chat - so long as they ask in advance (I mention this to every class as well.) I don't do English corners, but I feel that my students would benefit from out-of-class contact with me.

In a year I haven't had many problems. This university has more of a feel of a community, and most if not all the other FEs here do what I do.

This is the first job where I've done this. In jobs where I lived in private accomodation, I almost never gave contact info to students.

You have to be careful: information you give to one student might end up public knowledge anyway, depending on the student, situation, etc. Just something to bear in mind.

[con's fly is open]

Personally, I love it when my students pick funky names. What's wrong with Sunshine? Seven? Summer Rain? At least they're showing some imagination. I currently teach 3 different Betty's, 4 Davids, 3 Johns, 3 Sallys, 3 Mikes, 4 Annas, etc.
Give me a hippy name any day.
If your student's name isn't Fartpardon or Hooker, or denoting the wrong gender a la Boy Named Sue, what's the harm?

[Wolf]

con's said:

Personally, I love it when my students pick funky names. What's wrong with Sunshine? Seven? Summer Rain?

I don't know, but it certainly is something.

My only Chinese name really is "Wolf." I chose it way back when I got here, from my extensive 20 word vocabulary. When people ask me my Chinese name and I tell them, they laugh in my face. They obviously don't take the name seriously (neither do I, to be fair.)

If I needed a Chinese name that had to be taken seriously, I'd be careful in selecting a name that was really a decent Chinese name, and not a random word from a dictionary, or from memory.

The reverse is probably true. A Chinese immirgant to my country (Canada) would probably do well to choose a real English name for an English name (if they decide to use an English name.) Not everyone is broad minded about such things, and it facilitates social interaction.

But, that's a line of thinkin rather far removed from the daily reality of most university EFL students in China.

[woza17]

My new classes, lots of Fannys and Willys I have discouraged them from sitting next to each othe.r