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Post by Lotus Eater on Dec 15, 2005 13:38:32 GMT 7
Ruth - Babe doesn't have any accent - ask George, Chips, Jade, Woza, Newbs, Mr. N, Non-D, or myself (and any other Hogan you know). She sounds just like us and we don't have an accent!! I tell this to my students and they crack up - but it is based on the fact that you can't hear your own accent. I have to grin when my debating students talk about how hard it is to understand Indian English, Singaporean English, Malaysian English etc. They figure that their English is easy to understand!! I also have students who are now studying overseas and they write back to me complaining because the other ESL students English is so hard to understand! I point out the difficulty their teachers have in coping with everybody's English!!
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Post by Lotus Eater on Dec 16, 2005 6:32:17 GMT 7
One of the 'new' techniques I am trying is to use the stuff I am learning in different contexts - not just the readings in the textbook. So I am writing up a 'sticky diary' EVERY day. A sticky diary? During the day find some small reminder of the day - a leaf, bus ticket, whatever and stick this into a notebook and write a minimum of 3 lines (in Hanzi!) about whatever it was. This way the language has a personal meaning for you, you have to look up words you don't know but need (vocab expansion) and you gain practice in expressing yourself about things you want to say.
My FT mate and I are doing this together, and we each show our own Chinese teacher for grammar and usage correction. But we keep each other up to the mark.
My hanzi still looks like chicken scratchings though!
When you all get back from boot camp I would like a thorough analysis of the teaching techniques please!!
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Non-Dave
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Post by Non-Dave on Dec 16, 2005 6:44:57 GMT 7
Don't worry Lotus, you'll be able to purchase a copy of the documentary from all reputable DVD re-sellers about a week after bootcamp ends.
The stick diary sounds great!
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Post by Lotus Eater on Dec 16, 2005 16:53:24 GMT 7
Hey I want mates rates!! Just finished spending nearly 2 hours translating - from Chinese to English - an advertisement for air freshener. It was the length of 2 mobile telephone pages of SMS in Hanzi. Ahhh....... But I now know how to say aldehyde in Chinese È©¡£ Really useful! I also spent a few minutes helping a Chinese friend with her webpage for their horse trekking business - making certain she didn't use the word fleecing for shearing and a few things like that! Translation is such fun!
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Post by MK on Dec 26, 2005 19:53:52 GMT 7
OK, here's yet another resource, this time from China Radio International. Its a bit like buying yet another textbook is only a way of procrastinating further, but this one is also pretty good. Multi-Level ChineseChoose your lesson, click on the little guy in headphones to listen and then read along in pinyin and/or Chinese characters if you are up to it. Not bad for free! (Has anybody collected these resources and stickied them yet?)
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Post by Lotus Eater on Mar 4, 2006 11:44:21 GMT 7
Karaoke!! I went last night - as the only foreigner in the group so 99.99% of the songs were in Chinese. But the repetition of the same types of phrases in numerous songs was good. I picked up a few more characters (including some of the 'old' complicated ones). I didn't have to sing - because I had the excuse that I 'kan bu dong' . Nate, George, Babe and Woza will tell you this is a GOOD thing!
I tell my students to do this - I have such great ideas for learning - why don't I use them??
OK - what happened to an in-depth analysis of the teaching methodology from bootcamp??
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Ruth
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Post by Ruth on Mar 4, 2006 13:51:08 GMT 7
Okay, not the in-depth version, 'cause I'm too lazy. What you just wrote about - singing. Several evening activities involved learning songs. Songs slow enough to be able to make out the words. These were painstakingly translated for us. Once we had the general idea we sang along. Many of the phrases from the songs stuck in my head. (George, can I hear e, e, e, please?) More phrases than from the oral classes, to be honest. Singing is a powerful learning tool, whether one can carry a tune or not. Also cool was that the songs were given to us in pinyin and in characters. As bootcamp progressed I was able to recognize some of the characters in the song words. Very exciting to match up characters from writing class with phrases from the songs. (I know, doesn't take much to excite me.) Our teachers were very patient with us - always. They were 'on duty' all waking hours. I learned lots of words at meal times and we were encouraged to ask for things, such as napkins and a fresh pot of tea, at the restaurant. These 'out of classroom' lessons stuck more than the ones in the classroom - for me. Way back when I first came to China I decided that I would NEVER be able to learn to read or write, so totally blew off even trying. Bootcamp changed my attitude. Learning how to write characters actually helped the words stick in my brain. I learned more new words from writing class and the homework than I did from oral class. That is not a reflection on the teachers in the oral class, simply a reflection of how I learn. I also did lots more homework than was assigned, to get stuff to sink in even more. I have to give many kudos to Non- Dave - okay a bottle of the Saloon's finest - for the extra work he did outside of class. He made flash cards and borrowed the white board so he could practice and practice and practice. Probably why he progressed more than I did. That and his younger brain. So, I'd encourage anyone trying to learn the language to learn writing as well, just as another way to get the information into the gray matter. This is not something I would try to do on my own from a book. We played UNO one evening. I learned colours. I'm fairly comfortable with numbers but some of the really-new-to-China folks weren't. I've used UNO lots in teaching my kids, making them say the colour and number as they play a card. Works just as well when played in Chinese. Games are good. I would have liked to have more role play time in oral class. I wasn't comfortable with the few times we did it (now I have more sympathy for my students), but it is a good thing to do to get the phrases to stick. We really learned too much to process in such a short time. Let me rephrase that. I was taught too much to process. But that's okay. I wrote everything down. Now that I'm home, it is up to me to go back over my notes and practice.
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Post by Lotus Eater on Mar 4, 2006 14:53:54 GMT 7
Thanks Ruth. Any techniques that you thought were really useful that you will transfer to your teaching?
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Ruth
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Post by Ruth on Mar 4, 2006 19:49:28 GMT 7
I already use music, but might do more of that. Poetry too. With my wee ones at home I play a lot of games, including UNO. Powerful teaching tool. I've got any number of games with pictures and the kids love them. I really need to get more role playing or dialogue into my lessons. Can't figure out how to do that with 85 kids in the class. I bring kids up to the front for dialogue, but only so many can participate at a time. I wish I could do some of the group stuff you discuss here, but I don't think my high schoolers are advanced enough. Also, class size is prohibitive.
Something I do with my private kids that I wish they had done at bootcamp is TPR stuff. Touch your nose, toes, ears, etc. with the teacher speaking and modeling. Once the students are familiar, the teacher only speaks and stops modeling. Finally, the students can reproduce the correct words. One day we were told, and wrote down, any number of body parts. The next day the teacher had a student stand at the front and point to body parts. The rest of us were supposed to be able to name them. Not possible after one hearing without further reinforcement. I would have liked to have been taught by the TPR method - at least for body parts, clothing and things in the room. That will be one of my suggestions to the facilitator.
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Post by MK on Apr 16, 2006 11:32:46 GMT 7
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Non-Dave
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Post by Non-Dave on Apr 16, 2006 16:04:25 GMT 7
Hey MK, thanks! The site looks great. I'm going to give it a try - just downloading the torrent files.
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Post by ilunga on Apr 20, 2006 11:44:14 GMT 7
I'll stick some of those on my MP3 player MK, thanks for that. Should be useful, as my 'fa yin' and 'ting li' still kinda sucks. My reading is getting a lot better though, so my classes aren't a total waste of time.
How's your chinese going?
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Post by Stil on Apr 20, 2006 12:59:59 GMT 7
I find this quite useful. If you use firefox, give it a try. Firefox plugin that does on-click Chinese text annotation. Using it is as simple as pressing 'a' (adsotate) and then clicking on Chinese text anywhere in the browser. A small window will popup (or refresh) with the sentence annotated newsinchinese-style: mouseover for pinyin and english. The script handles traditional and simplified Chinese INSTALLATION: (1) Install or Upgrade to Firefox v. 1.5 www.mozilla.com(2) Download Greasemonkey and restart Firefox: greasemonkey.mozdev.org/changes/0.6.4.html(3) Visit the following page and click on the "Install" button: www.adsotrans.com/downloads/adso.user.js
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Post by MK on Apr 22, 2006 22:59:15 GMT 7
Cheers for that stil, I am experimenting with it now - I can say that Rikai.com (thanks Nate) + Chinese speaking friends + MSN Messenger are great for improving your reading. It's going ok, but after mastering the basics, I have found it's a steep learning curve. Applying a little knowledge can get you in even more trouble than just playing dumb. Half the time I find myself apologising that I only speak 'a little' Chinese and that I haven't understood what someone has said. Slowly, Slowly wins the race though, I suppose.
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Post by Dajiang on Jun 5, 2006 19:24:04 GMT 7
I've collected some nice links on my humble weblog: workingabroad.web-log.nl/I'm sure some of them are already somewhere in this thread, but I'm too buggered to read the whole thing. Got two songs for ya though (with guitar chords) *** Yue liang dai biao wo de xin - TERESA TENG C Em Dm C ni wen wo ai ni you duo shen, wo ai ni you ji fen Am F wo de qing ye zhen, wo de ai ye zhen G G7 C yue liang dai biao wo de xin ni wen wo ai ni you duo shen, wo ai ni you ji fen wo de qing bu yi, wo de ai bu bian yue liang dai biao wo de xin C Am qing qing de yi ge wen, yi jin da dong wo de xin C Am shen shen de yi duan qing, jiao wo si nian dao ru jin ni wen wo ai ni you duo shen, wo ai ni you ji fen ni qu xiang yi xiang, ni qu kan yi kan yue liang dai biao wo de xin *** Dui Mian De Nu Hai - Richie Ren C G Dui Mian De Nu Hai Kan Guo Lai Am Em Kan Guo Lai, Kan Guo Lai F C Am Zhi Li De Biao Yian Hen Jing Cai Dm G Qing Bu Yao Jia Zhuang Bu Li Bu Cai Dui Mian De Nu Hai Kan Guo Lai Kan Guo Lai, Kan Guo Lai Bu Yao Bei Wo De Yang Zi Xia Huai Qi Shi Wo Hen Ke Ai Ji Mo Nan Hai De Bei Ai Shuo Chu Lai, Shei Ming Bai Qiu Qiu Ni Pao Ge Mei Yan Guo Lai Hong Hong Wo Dou Wo Le Kai Huai C G Em Am Wo Zuo Kan You Kan, Shang Kan Xia Kan F G Yuan Lai Mei Ge Nu Hai Dou Bu Jian Dan Wo Xiang Le You Xiang, Wo Cai Le You Cai Nu Hai Men De Xin Shi Hai Zhen Qi Guai Ji Mo Nan Hai De Cang Ying Pai Zuo Pai Pai, You Pai Pai Wei Shen Me Hai Shi Mei Ren Lai Ai Wu Ren Wen Jin Ah, Zhen Wu Nai Dui Mian De Nu Hai Kan Guo Lai Kan Guo Lai, Kan Guo Lai Ji Mo Nan Hai Qing Dou Chu Kai Xu Yao Ni Gei Wo Yi Dian Ai [Chorus x2] Hai Zhen Qi Lai lai lai ... Ah, Suan Le, Hui Jia Ba *** Dajiang
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Post by George61 on Jun 5, 2006 19:42:50 GMT 7
Love the first song, DJ. At BootCamp, I was the only one who could sing it properly....with FEELING!!
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nolefan
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Post by nolefan on Jun 5, 2006 21:45:44 GMT 7
Love the first song, DJ. At BootCamp, I was the only one who could sing it properly....with FEELING!!ahem
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Post by Mr Nobody on Jun 5, 2006 22:31:51 GMT 7
I would rather hear it sung on key.
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Post by Lotus Eater on Jun 5, 2006 23:52:48 GMT 7
Between when my sister leaves and when classes start I have a couple of weeks free. I checked out bootcamp- but it finishes after I start work so that option won't work. Other options are: - Train from Xi'an to Lhasa, then local buses etc to Zhangba (near Mt. Kailesh)
- Silk Road circuit - Xi'an, Ulumuqi, Kashgar, Hotan, Xining, Xi'an (North and South Silk Roads)
- Stay in Xi'an, employ a Chinese teacher for the couple of weeks to run an intensive one-on-one bootcamp.
Which one will expand my Chinese more? I'm planning on the trips on my own unless anyone would care to join me. So I will be speaking Chinese the whole way.
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nolefan
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Post by nolefan on Jun 7, 2006 22:19:07 GMT 7
too bad you can't make the bootcamp, i was looking forward to another saloon takeover. I'm right now smack down in the middle of Xinjiang and i strongly think this is the last place you want to be traveling through if you intend to practice your Putonghua. My advice would be to stay put and get a teacher that can put you through your own bootcamp. Even better, find someone else to make the commitment with you so that you have some sort of interaction in class.
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Post by ilunga on Sept 11, 2006 21:24:53 GMT 7
Update time?! I've decided to stay on at Shi Da in Xi'an and am glad I did. I feel like I'm making progress now. I've moved up to class three (of six) and it's pretty challenging. Speaking class is a lot better this year. This teacher actually gives us the opportunity to speak. Discussion today started with how hot Polish chicks are, and finished on David Beckham, via George W 'Bu shi'. Very apt name I think. Intensive reading class is exactly what it says on the tin. First chapter - 59 new words. Second chapter - 69 new words. Not to mention the 50+ strange characters that pop in the 'ke wen' and 'lian xi'. I spent four hours on homework one night last week, and that was with assistance. I dread to think how long it would have taken me on my own. We also have a grammar class and a more basic reading class. I'm skipping the listening, as it does nothing for me, and enables me to not have to get up at 6.30 a couple of days a week One good thing about this course is it seriously improves character recognition, if nothing else. It seems to be structured more to suit the Korean students but I like it that way. Really keeps me on my toes. I was a bit disillusioned with Shi Da last term but am much happier with things now. I would thoroughly recommend this place to anyone thinking of studying chinese. Are you still studying on Tianjin Nate?
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Decurso
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Post by Decurso on Sept 12, 2006 21:55:48 GMT 7
I just got ahold of a great book that is used for foreign students in Hua Dong Shi Fan University in Shanghai.I highly recomend it.I breezed through the first five units..since then I'm taking about a week per unit.
The reason is that after unit five the only English you will encounter is the "new words list" and the exercise instructions.The dialouges are in pinyin..but the exercises are in characters only.
A while back on this thread we discussed how studying characters was the best way to learn Chinese.It's proving true for me.The characters are the key.My writing is still crap..but Chinese people can at least figure out what I was trying to write.My reading...tons better.And my speaking..while nowhere near fluent is better thean I ever could've hoped for.
This book rocks.
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Post by Lotus Eater on Sept 12, 2006 22:25:05 GMT 7
And it's called .....
I am using "Chinese made Easier; A new curricukum for a new millenium". Published by Shaanxi Normal University Press - think it is by Martin Symonds. (Shi Da)
Is this the one you are using, ilunga?
I'm now at the beginning chapters of Book 3.
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Post by ilunga on Sept 13, 2006 6:33:59 GMT 7
Don't think I've ever seen that one Lotus. The one I'm using now (for jin du) is called 'deng1 pan1', ie 'climbing up' (or something).
Decurso, I found my han zi recognition didn't really start improving until the pin yin disappeared from the books. That was at the beginning of level two. You just don't look at the han zi (in the ke wen) when the pinyin is there.
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Decurso
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Post by Decurso on Sept 13, 2006 7:16:36 GMT 7
I believe the book is called 40 basic Chinese lessons.There's a second book with no pinyin or English except for the new words.
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