Eagle's Nest
Barfly
A self-portrait ... note that there is a mess of confusion in the swirling mists of "self"
Posts: 283
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Post by Eagle's Nest on Sept 13, 2006 7:35:04 GMT 7
My BASIC beginners class starts this coming Monday. I don't have a clue yet what the test will be or if I will learn more than a few words of classroom putongwa. But, at least I'll be trying.
When we went out last night for supper with our co-teachers, one of them who is a local and the other who is from the north of China, we found that northern co-teacher couldn't understand the language spoken by a street vendor who spoke a form of Changzhou-anese (I made that up folks). Mandarin isn't spoken by the vast majority as I had thought. Truth is, I might not be able to communicate with many older locals even if I learn a lot of Mandarin.
Read in the China Daily (Shanghai edition) that 40% of the population of China doesn't speak Mandarin.
eagle
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Post by Stil on Sept 13, 2006 9:15:41 GMT 7
Read in the China Daily (Shanghai edition) that 40% of the population of China doesn't speak Mandarin. eagle While this may be true, most of these people will live in the deep countryside. I live in a very small town in Hunan and while the accents are often difficult to understand most people under 50 can speak putonghua. If they have never gone to school then it's a different story.
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Post by Lotus Eater on Sept 13, 2006 12:22:29 GMT 7
I have found that while there is a substantial percentage of people who speak local dialect - XXX-hua - many of them can understand Putonghua and write it. So on my last trip, the young Tibetan fellas who fell in love with my niece couldn't speak Putonghua, but would write out their devotion of their mobile phones in Hanzi, I would translate it into English for my niece and then give them the answers in Zhongwen. Seemed to work reasonably well!! It is compulsory at school - and we all KNOW that everyone attends school for 9 years, don't we? So a fair percentage of people - the rural and remote poor, the illegal immigrants and their children - slip through the net. And often once they finish their 9 years of school they are back in their villages and speaking dialect again - and their 'national' language becomes a little rusty!
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Post by Mr Nobody on Sept 13, 2006 12:36:58 GMT 7
Not to mention bent by local influences. As we all know, languages aren't static, so in a big country with a large variety of cultures of barely educated people who do not travel much, there isn't a lot to hold it together - except maybe TV. Will it be enough? I doubt it. Languages are like lifeforms. They escape boundaries, and evolve rapidly with rapidly changing circumstances. It's what they do.
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Post by Lotus Eater on Sept 13, 2006 12:46:11 GMT 7
I agree with you about the pinyin - I have a grammar book that I really liked in the beginning - bought it in Oz - but now it is annoying because it is all in pinyin and I have difficulty in understanding it!! I find it much easier now to visualise the character rather than the pinyin.
I write characters in the air and people know what I mean, I say stuff like qilai de qi and everyone knows which qi I mean. My teacher is teaching me how to ensure people get my Chinese name right Nushu de shu, mingyuan de yuan. He also teachers me others names - some are based on the numbers of strokes e.g. san heng yi shu de Wang. (3 horizontal strokes, 1 vertical). Huang se de huang etc. It is all starting to make sense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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teleplayer
Barfly
Ni3 you3 hen3 duo1 qian2. Gei3 wo3 yi4dian(r)3 ba.
Posts: 541
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Post by teleplayer on Sept 14, 2006 4:42:07 GMT 7
And it's called ..... I am using "Chinese made Easier; A new curricukum for a new millenium". Published by Shaanxi Normal University Press - think it is by Martin Symonds. (Shi Da) Is this the one you are using, ilunga? I'm now at the beginning chapters of Book 3. LE, That looks like a good series of books. They can be found all over web: www.chinesemadeeasier.com/news.htmlPractical usage, appears well organized.... Illunga, what about yours. Googling "40 Basic Chinese Lessons" went all over the place. Still plodding along solo with the "Integrated Chinese." Not able to take time from work to attend the on-campus classes so definitely plodding.
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Post by Lotus Eater on Sept 14, 2006 7:19:28 GMT 7
The series also recommends a website: www.smithworks.org/chineseAlthough this isn't loading for me - does it load for anyone else? The site teleplayer gave has some interesting stuff in the side bars to follow up on.
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teleplayer
Barfly
Ni3 you3 hen3 duo1 qian2. Gei3 wo3 yi4dian(r)3 ba.
Posts: 541
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Post by teleplayer on Sept 14, 2006 8:42:09 GMT 7
LE, for those in USANIA, Canukistan, and Oz should load. I was on the "smithworks" site while looking at the other info.
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Post by ilunga on Sept 14, 2006 13:25:15 GMT 7
Teleplayer, mine is called Deng Pan (µÇÅÊ). Decurso's is the 40 Chinese lessons.
Deng Pan (climbing up) is published by the 'Beijing Language and Culture University Press'. We go through the 'sheng ci', read the 'ke wen' (two and a half pages of it this chapter), go over the 'yu fa', then do the 'lian xi'. The chapters tend to finish with a short story or two. Pretty intensive stuff.
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Eagle's Nest
Barfly
A self-portrait ... note that there is a mess of confusion in the swirling mists of "self"
Posts: 283
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Post by Eagle's Nest on Sept 27, 2006 12:02:53 GMT 7
Well, my lesson opportunities went down the tube. The lessons are scheduled at the same time as my teaching lessons. I have arranged to take private lessons from a colleague at the university. Of course a number of students were/are also wanting to help me learn. I have been told that there might be an addition to the Mandarin classes for next term, an evening class if there are enough who would like to have these classes. If it flies then it will be a free class for me as part of the instructor staff.
eagle
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Post by Mr Nobody on Sept 27, 2006 12:58:45 GMT 7
Is it in your contract? They may be required to reschedule something if that is the case.
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Post by Nate M on Sept 29, 2006 5:16:14 GMT 7
Are you still studying on Tianjin Nate? I kind of ran out of money at the end of the semester, so I'll be teaching this year and trying to study on my own.
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Post by Vegemite on Oct 4, 2006 10:52:22 GMT 7
I enjoyed reading through these pages...lots of good tips for trying to get better with the Hanyu. Xie xie I'm using the Shanghai Daxue textbook '40 Basic Lessons' - the first five lessons are pinyin based and then it's Hanzi from there on. It was a birthday present from our Head of Foreign Affairs and I worked my way through it up to lesson 10 before employing a young local to give me weekly lessons. We started from scratch again and this really helped consolidate things. I'm now up to Lesson 11 and am going to use some of the ideas here to get in more writing practice. I especially like the idea of keeping a journal and writing about something everyday. It's what I tell my students to do but (like most teachers) I ignored my own advice until hearing it repeated here. My first sentences might just be 'I saw a big river today. It was blue and it was quiet. I liked it a lot" - but at least it'll be a start and it'll get me using the characters I know in actual sentences ciao
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Post by con's fly is open on Oct 19, 2006 0:03:01 GMT 7
I hired a Chinese tutor, and tomorrow is my first lesson. I'm going for a balanced speaking/listening/reading/writing approach. I hope to take 2 hour-long lessons a week. I'll have to read this entire thread on the weekend.
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Post by Lotus Eater on Oct 19, 2006 8:20:58 GMT 7
My private bootcamp is over. The relief and the sadness. My tutor has now headed for Germany.
The relief - I was having so many 3 hour classes per week I had no time to breathe! Homework was another 3 hours on top of that. It was reading, writing, listening comprehension, speaking - and damned hard work! But at least knowing he was arriving tomorrow or the next day for the next class made me DO the work.
Now - the sadness - I miss him - lovely friendly guy, great knowledge of the local area - our 'living Chinese' expeditions gave me great insight into this city and it's hidden history, plus a set of the best places to eat Muslim food in town! We had a lot of fun together.
More sadness - without his very gentle, totally charming prodding - I am not keeping up the work as I should. My ayi is stepping into the breach a little. She and I are good friends and have a great chat about life everytime she comes. She was here for many of my classes. So this week she said to me - you sit and do your Chinese while I am here - and then when you get stuck I can help you!! So she cleaned for 3 hours, I studied for 3 hours!! Then she checked my work and corrected mistakes.
But daily or every 2nd day is really the best. I am in awe of Peter Hessler of "Rivertown" fame who states in his book he studied for 2 hours every night. Where did he get the time?? I have so many other things happening that by the time I finish them, plus the social life, it is too late.
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Post by Lotus Eater on Oct 19, 2006 9:10:01 GMT 7
Having said this, I guilted myself into spending a little less time on the forum and have set out my books to do some more work. However, when I need a break -i.e. the concentration level drops - I will pop in to see if you have written anything I need to join in with!
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Post by Vegemite on Oct 19, 2006 14:15:02 GMT 7
I'm still plodding / ploughing my way through the Shanghai Daxue textbook - and am enjoying the ability to read more and more characters. Writing, though, is a lot more difficult than reading - making them stick in the ol' brain is hard . But what I am having a lot of difficulty with is finding the radicals for each character, when I hit a new word out on the street and get someone to write it for me, I often can't find the radical. Are there any helpful hints out there for using / learning the radicals? I deliberately don't want to keep writing / reading pinyin. I want to use Hanzi. Which brings me to my next query. I know that Microsoft Office has a Chinese Input option, however I can't use it. My computer is on the school network and Windows 2000 is our operating system - the big problem is that it's all in Chinese. Windows 2000 comes with the Chinese support package already installed so I just can't work out how to open it up and get it operating. I've tried downloading the package but as I'm using Win2000, once it's downloaded I get the message that it's already there. I've tried to ask some locals but none of them can do it - I don't have any very computer literate friends up here Changing the operating program into English is a no-go as it's part of the network... Any hints and ideas to help me? I tried installing QQ as another option to 'talk' Chinese but everytime I used it, the computer would crash. And besides, I would prefer to be able to use Word to type Chinese.
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Decurso
Barfly
Things you own end up owning you
Posts: 581
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Post by Decurso on Oct 19, 2006 14:30:14 GMT 7
Hey Vegemite I'm using that book too!I love it.I'm on Unit 13 now and my Chinese has literally improved by 200 per cent.One thing I really like is that the dialogues and texts are all fairly interesting(and often funny) reads.
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Non-Dave
Barfly
Try Not! Do - or Do Not... There Is No Try!
Posts: 701
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Post by Non-Dave on Oct 20, 2006 6:31:29 GMT 7
Hey Vegemite, I may be missing something here, but... if your computer is already in Chinese... don't you already have what you need? How are you typing English on a Chinese operating system? Shouldn't you be able to just switch between English and Chinese?
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Post by Vegemite on Oct 20, 2006 16:26:44 GMT 7
The operating system's in Chinese, Word is in Chinese - but they've set the language for me so when I type I type in English, thank goodness, otherwise I'd be totally lost. Imagine sending emails home in Hanyu...or writing lesson plans in Hanyu...one lesson plan every six months What I want is the ability to switch to Chinese ocassionally. Or, even better, change the Office Package into English. I didn't think it would be that bigger a difficulty using a computer in a foreign language, I used to tease my students back home for changing their settings to their native languages...now I know the difficulties though. For example, normally I use columns a lot when I write up plans - using Word in Chinese I can't find the tool to do it! Even emptying the rubbish bin is difficult, which one's empty and which one's restore??? As for my old favourites - Powerpoint, Excel and even Publisher...I don't even go there. The way I got around using Powerpoint was to download someone else's presentation off the net and now I just change the content to suit my needs. So, back to the original question - how can I type in Hanzi? How can I access the Chinese Input Editor? Any ideas out there? Or maybe I should start up a new thread - computer help!
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Non-Dave
Barfly
Try Not! Do - or Do Not... There Is No Try!
Posts: 701
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Post by Non-Dave on Oct 21, 2006 7:20:21 GMT 7
I'll check and get back to you - it should be easy and doable without having to load anything new.
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Post by Vegemite on Oct 24, 2006 8:28:10 GMT 7
Duh - if I had a Homer Simpson pic he'd be here slapping himself on the head! I have the answer to my computer language problem! Doing a Powerpoint presentation my hands slipped on the keyboard and up popped the Language Input Editor. I can't for the life of me remember which keys I accidentally struck but now I know - to access it on a Chinese programme all I need to know are the shortcut keys for it ;D So, you fellow language learners - what are the shortcut keys to access the Chinese Input Editor in Word? ANd I'm going to start up a new thread on computer advice...sometime...I want to know the shortcut keys to so many things that I used to do on an English computer but can't on a Chinese - 'cos I can't find it on the menu.
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Non-Dave
Barfly
Try Not! Do - or Do Not... There Is No Try!
Posts: 701
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Post by Non-Dave on Oct 24, 2006 21:11:35 GMT 7
Control (Ctrl) and Space?
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Post by Stil on Oct 25, 2006 7:15:53 GMT 7
Control (Ctrl) and Space? Yes and Control - Shift also. You can do this in Windows regardless what main language your version is in.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Oct 26, 2006 6:41:14 GMT 7
Yeah, I got stuck on that a lot with my wife using the same computer, and the ones in the language labs. I always forget since I touch type, and quite fast, then look only to find I am writing fluent but incoherent Chinese babble. But it always gets a laugh from the students. And here is your smiley: But I know the feeling....
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