Ex-pat psychoanalysis

[LJ]

OK this thread is not really for those of you that are in very large cities such as Beijing and Shanghai, or with large numbers of laowai.

This thread refers to the way foreigners behave in small cities. The way people react to unfamiliar foreign faces is often very peculiar.

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-I nearly got in a fight with German and Austrian engineers because I looked at them in a niteclub.

-I've been greeted with 'who the hell are you? how long have you been here?'

-I've been lectured by another foreigner when we met that 'China is country where person to person connections are very important', except I'd already been here three years, and dammed well knew that!

-I've been completely ignored by other foreigners in tiny little towns even though the foreign population is only 0.0001% of the total population.

-I've been buying things in a local shop and I've had my Chinese corrected by a foreigner I had never met before! Even though the service person understood me perfectly.

-Other foreigners have introduced themselves to me in Chinese so they could assess my Chinese level, even though we are actually from the same country.

-Other foreigners have introduced themselves to 'noobs' got them extra work, then skimmed money and introduction fees from their salaries.

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It seems as though in towns or cities with low foreign populations sometimes the resident laowai feel as if they 'own' the town.

What's your opinion?

[George61]

Agreed, LJ. I just nod, smile, say Hi, and leave it at that. If they want to take it further, it's up to them. Most I have met, I don't want to meet again, anyway.
Very strange phenomonen, really. I think many of them are afraid of other Laowei.

[Mr Nobody]

Me too. Sort of leave in vague embarassment or something. I think I don't exactly ignore them, but barely do anything unless they do. Which almost invariably, they don't. I am trying to quantify the exceptions. It is always the same, though. I know that under this set of circumstances, this laowai will talk. And I am cool with that too. I just can't articulate what that set of circumstances are. Sometimes trains, or planes, or buses or hotels, but there is a sameness about the meeting.

[acjade]

People don't leave their personalities behind when they move to live and work in another country.

Many behaviours of the loawai are hybrid forms of their everyday egos but because we notice the laowais in isolation their behaviours appear heightened. At home they just blend into the crowd and we are too busy dealing with the demands of family and friends and colleagues to notice.

Likewise many laowais exaggerate their own behaviour in a new country because they think they can get away with it or they're busy creating new personalities. Unfortunately the newly assumed personalities are often built on fractured foundations.

[Lotus Eater]

Depends on what I am doing - we need a 2 vote option on the voting system.

My theory - promulgated in other threads here - is that laowai don't really want other laowai to be here. This is a major adventure, and everyone back home is incredulous at our bravery, sense of adventure etc etc. We ourselves feel courageous for giving up the 'known' for the 'mysterious, unfathomable, dark Orient".

When we reach here and find so many other laowai, it takes away from our sense of adventure, courage and 'difference'. If so many of them are here, it must be easy! We are back to being ordinary and bloody boring again. Damn.

So I find that other laowai really don't want this sense of courage invaded. They don't want to be seen as boring and run of the mill again.

In normal times (ie when I am working) I am quite happy to talk to laowai (I came to Suzhou didn't I?), and tend to collect them for parties etc. But I have often found that unless you are working with them, then laowai limit their mixing.

But on vacation, I prefer places without laowai - muttering 'laowai alert' 10-20 times per day on travels in cities with them. I really prefer the wild and untamed places where laowai don't frequent - partly for the above reasons, partly because the places are more beautiful, partly because the locals are friendlier, partly because I want to see as much as possible of China before it changes too much into a WTO America/west lookalike.

[Lotus Eater]

Further to above:

When you have been here for a while and been through a few semester changes there is also the sense of 'why get involved? They will just leave, I will leave in a few months." Being a laowai is a temporary thing for the majority of people - they head home at the end of 6/12 months, or move on to other parts of the country.

So investment in relationships tends to be superficial and limited.

[Mr Nobody]

Masterful analysis.

Not sure if it applies to me, though.

I think my reaction is more like, "Well, I have nothing in common with this person other than race. I dont even know if this person speaks English. I don't know them, and the only reason I am noticing that person at all is because they are white. I am only feeling this closeness due to the false reasoning that we are both strangers in a strange land."

That sort of thing. I don't feel a similar inclination or embarrassment at not doing so, to randomly go up to Chinese, Ethnic minority types, Indian or Negro people and say "Hi I am also a stranger here". Or Chinese people in Australia etc.

I think this feeling of "I should talk to this guy" is in reality the fake part, a false commonality and comradeship engendered by the circumstances, and not our reaction to it. I think we subconciously know this is bullpoo, and our feeling of strangeness is the conflict between these two feelings. Hench the vague embarassment.

The times I talk to people, there seems to be no conflict of this nature. There is a genuine commonality.

I agree with Lotus in that I can see the shallowness of some interrelationships. They are like vacation friendships, and have that temporary stamp all over them. Others are genuine. I think, however, that this is a separate issue to the random encounter thing.

[acjade]

i LIKES YOUR THINKING mR. nOBODY.

[con's fly is open]

I'm starved for fellow laowai. I get so tired of always speaking pasteurized vanilla English. But there is a weird vibe i get off them: not eager to meet me.

I ran into 3 foreigners here in town, a rare occurrence. It was a middle-aged guy and two 18 year-old boys. "Holy cow", I exclaimed, "foreigners!" We stopped.

"So what are you doing here in Dashiqiao?" I asked.

"We're on a mission. You know Agape?"

"Oh, yes!" I answered cheerfully,, even a tad approvingly.

"Well, we've got to be going" he added before I could say anymore.

"Oh, don't let me keep you..." Nothing more was forthcoming- they turned to go. "Well, I'll see you around town, then."

Sheesh, Christians are usually nice. The guy was as unfriendly as he without give me grounds to make a scene. I felt like I had just tried to sell him carpet cleaning. And I wasn't wearing my "Satan loves yo mama" T-shirt or anything.

[George61]

Time to get your hair cut, Conn.

[MK]

In Beijing, ignore them, they are everywhere. In a smaller place, maybe a smile or nod.

[LJ]

Obviously the huge majority of people in China are Han Chinese. Therefore anyone else in these smaller cities immediately has something (but not very much) in common with people from a different cultural or ethnic background. Whether they be Tibetian, from Xin Jiang or Russia.
We walk past many foreigners from Korea and Japan because without acknowedging them because we don't know that they are from elsewhere.

It seems that it is probably short term foreign vistors that ignore each other and the local ex-pats, because I think similar to what Lotus Eater suggested that they (short-term visitors) start to believe they are in a world of adventure, a break from their home country and want to be immersed in the local culture and seeing another laowai is like ruining the exclusive strange new world.

Long term foreigners however are keen to build groups of friends that they can speak to in their native language, so being 'blanked' is irritating.

[Mr Nobody]

Funny, I have no desire whatsoever to build up groups of friends who only have language in common. I don't think I have any strong identity with groups in that way. I am often alone, and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. Not that I am bothered by company either, but sometimes I would prefer to be alone.

I think that I tend to prefer to struggle with the language and talk to people of like mind. But then, I don't have a very strong desire to talk to most people anyway. I don't really identify with most westerners I meet here, or indeed most people of any culture anywhere. I have little in common with them. I suspect that this is the case for most people - that others have little in common with them.

Grouping myself with others based simply on a common language isn't my way, I guess. It seems like a pretty superficial basis for interpersonal relationships, although naturally when stuck in a foreign country for a few weeks without speaking English, I have done so. But only for a night, or an outing or something.

Who was it who said "We are a people divided by a common language" ?

[Lotus Eater]

I have been really lucky in that I have some really great Chinese friends who are prepared to slow down their speech, help me when I get stuck for words etc etc. However to create meaningful relationships it is necessary to be able to communicate effectively. My Chinese is not yet up to that standard, so I have to rely on them meeting my level, being prepared to work at communicating with me for us to have this level of relationship.

I also think there is a fair bit of difference in whether you are here alone, with a partner, or some form of support group - like church groups of other 'teams' that send people here.

[acjade]

Language aka words only account for 7% of communication.

I have some funny conversations with taxi drivers during which I say 'dwei' a lot and with varying expressions. Then I toss in a bu just for variation. I wouldn't have a clue what they're saying but I watch their faces and hands. If their knuckles whiten it tells me strong feeling so I give my solemn 'ah, ah'

From this experience I've also discovered most of the drivers actually cover the same conversational territory and oddly enough I can now actually comprehend what they're talking about.

I usally initiate the conversation with ' Ni Xi'an ren?'

They respond, either in the negative or positive case. Then without fail they ask am I an American.... By the time we reach my destination they think themselves very clever fellows for talking with a westerner.

[LJ]

It's really quite interesting, especially Mr Nobody, you really have no need to be around people that aren't Han ethnicity?

For many here ones whole social life revovles around other foreigners. For example in fashion and musically many Han Chinese and westerners have very different tastes. Would you wear a set of keys and a cell phone on your belt? Would you wear slip-on fake leather shoes? Would you bang your head to Chinese techno-pop in a niteclub?

I love Han culture but I'm equally impressed and have a great admiration when I hear my Xin Jiang friends sing and play their two stringed guitar/banjo thing I can't remember the name of.

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But this is only half the question as such, the other half is about how do long-term foreigners treat newly arrived soon to be long term residents when they meet for the first time?

Many foreigners seem to develop an 'ownership' kind of mentality towards the small city or town they are living in and are not welcoming towards new faces. Whereas sometimes the new faces are not interested in having foreign friends either.

[Lotus Eater]

Last year the majority of my friends were westerners from various parts of the world. This year, by virtue of changing universities and having a chunk of the last years friends leave, the majority of my friends are Chinese of one form or another (Han, Xinjiang, Manchu, Zang etc).

When we look at laowai we can assume some similarities: a touch of sense of adventure; the knowledge of what it is like to leave home, friends and family; an easier method of communication (cultural differences can also be noted in body language, so apart from obvious similarities it is not always helpful to rely on non-verbal cues); some knowledge of something we may know about as well (football, cricket, books, music etc).

These give at least more accessible openings for discussion and relationship building. For my Chinese friends I never discuss cricket (well, I don't actually like it either - grass growing is more fun, having sat through interminable cricket matches, watched thousands of them on TV, listened to post mortems of them by the hour - my ex was a good cricketer and came from a family who represented both state and country - it is the world's most boring game - but at least I know enough about it to nod wisely!), or Iron Butterfly.

BUT - I am vaguely proprietal over 'my' space in China and want to be able to understand China and it's people more deeply. Hanging with laowai prevents that. Travelling with too many laowai means not one Chinese person will come and talk to me. The fewer laowai the better when I am travelling.

Jade - be careful with the 'dui, dui, dui" - Tibetan driver offered to give me a child this trip - (I think it was one he had already created, but it could have been an offer of creation as well!). That one I could turn down! I use the 'ahh, ahh" when I am totally confused and have lost the thread of converstation - wait desperately for the next couple of words I can understand.

[Decurso]

Ignore them.If they're lonely they will have to do the approaching.I'm not the least bit lonely and I see no reason to form friendships with people I wouldn't give the time of day to back home just because they are fellow laowais.To me that's the same as the Chinese who want to be your friend for no other reason than you're a foreigner.Besides...most of the foreigners I've met here wouldn't know a good time if kicked them in the ass.

[Mr Nobody]

Thanks, LJ; yeah, I do like fitting in. Well, as far as possible being twice the size, white, and with blue eyes.

People's ethnicity to me are secondary to other things.

I can survive, I guess, due to over 30 years involvement with aspects of Chinese culture. My social life here entirely consists of Chinese, mostly Han, probably directly in proportion to their representation in teh local community. They are mainly those people I met through my wife, but she has lived here for about 30 years, off and on. This may change when I begin work in Sept, but even in Oz I would say something like one third of my real friends are Chinese, mostly Han.

I too like traditional Han culture, or any traditional culture. History is wonderful, any kind, cultural, geological, biological, anything. I love thinking about how things got from there to here, and where does it go from here. A passion.....

Their pop music sucks as does virtually all pop anywhere, and I don't listen to it. I hate cellphones and don't wear keys on my belt nor wear fake leather shoes. Local ones don't fit anyway, my feet are too big.

I don't dance to techno in any culture, partly because I can only dance for comedy, and partly because the lighting and beat makes me feel like I am on cheap drugs. I have no sense of rhythm, and probably the only kind of dancing I could learn would be the bustop or line dancing where a sense of taste and rhythm is unnecessary. Unfortunately, even thought I have no sense of rhythm, I do have taste.

I have been in Nanning continuously for just under 3 months, I don't feel I own it yet. Besides, not sure if it would be a good investment. I think management problems would prove prohibitive. In places in China where I feel thoroughly at home, I believe I am inviting, when I do meet people with whom I have commonality.

I think for all practical purposes, though, Decurso's comment fits me closer, and simpler, than anything I would say myself.

[con's fly is open]

Come to think of it, the laowai who've been friendly to me were all FTs in small towns.

I've learning something about dancing. Dance well and people will join you because it looks fun, and everyone else will be watching you, so they don't have to be self-conscious. Whereas, if you dance badly, people will join you because it looks fun, and everyone else will be watching you, so they don't have to be self-conscious.

At a party, taste is a highly overrated concept.

However, the Chinese really, REALLY need exposure to better music. We would all do them a service by playing them... well, just about anything.

[Mr Nobody]

But they wouldn't all be doing the same thing.

[ilunga]

Just a nod/smile. Maybe a 'hi'. I'm the number one customer ( ) of the only expat bar in town so I tend to meet quite a few laowai. I'll usually wait for the boss to suss them out first (that's his job) and then decide if I want to get to know them. Maybe a bit sad but I've had a couple of lucky escapes. If the boss isn't around I'll probably take the plunge. Most foreigners I meet in China I have nothing in common with, but I won't know that unless I talk to them. My American friend feels obliged to introduce himself to any foreigners he sees, be it in the bar or on a train. I think that's cool but it's not really my style. Guess I'm a little shy in some respects.

I met a German guy in a disco here a few weeks back and we had a lot of fun in Shanghai together. He has a strange way of greeting other foreigners. I wince when he meets an American as he goes into instant piss-take mode. We met a a South African guy in Shanghai. 'So where are you from?' 'South Africa' 'SOUTH AFRICA??? HA HA HA' turns to the girl he was with 'That guy's from South Africa!' As far as I could make out (I was playing pool with the guy) that's where the conversation ended. I joked about it with my friend later. 'I thought he was gonna knock you out' 'Oh I've never met a white guy from South Africa before'

[Dr. Gonzo]

I used to see lots. I'd make eye contact. If it was reciprocated, we'd go from there.
If I saw a confused/distressed whitey [or non-whitey] in the Shanghai subway, for eg, I'd ask them if they needed help.
But then I helped out some lost non-Shanghaier Chinese too.l What a guy!!!

[acjade]

Yes quite.

I have some western point of origin friends but my intimate circle of friends are Chinese... not deliberate for language learning just the way it's panned out. I have some seppos in my friends, a lovely couple and one of them is American born Chinese.

There are billions of Chinese here so it's a statistics thing I guess. I mean what are the odds?

[hankuh]

Generally, when I meet them, I pull my pants down. Just ask those wierd folks I met in Suzhou during the May holiday.

Well, I'm in a small city where foreigners are a real rarity. The very rare occasions I see them, and usually they are only here for a day or so, I'll greet them with a warm: "Yo poo motherm'kayer, what sup!" and give them a few gangsta signs with my fingers, and yell, "Party in motherm'kaying house!" If they don't walk away after that, I figure they might be pretty cool but only if their Chinese girlfriends look very hot!
But if they throw down with some weed or hashish, poo, man I don't care what they do!


Seriously, if they don't act like m'kaying assholes, I'm fine with meeting them.


I'd have to go with Con's posting on this. I too get tired of speaking staccato English and the patronizing conversations.

As long as the foreigner's not a pompous dickhead, I welcome the chance to talk.