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Post by icebear on Apr 18, 2006 4:58:45 GMT 7
I'm curious as to how many people actually enter on Z visas. There seems to be two main schools of thought... 1) Absolutely make sure you obtain a Z visa before entering China. This entails negotiating and signing a contract prior to entry if I'm not mistaken. 2) Arrive on some other visa and tour the schools in your desired area so as to weed out the questionable ones. Ideally convert to a Z visa/foreign experts permit once the contract is signed.
Both of these methods have their obvious pros and cons as discussed in the library. I'm wondering what "newbies" commonly go with and what works well. Or maybe I'm completely addled in the mind and both are possible, wouldn't that be nice.
Let's hear some experiences from all. Everyone was once wet behind the ears!
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Post by George61 on Apr 18, 2006 5:15:00 GMT 7
I came over, in 2002, on an L. I had it renewd about 4 times before getting a Z.
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loller
Up And Coming
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Post by loller on Apr 18, 2006 5:42:20 GMT 7
I'm getting a tourist visa. Hopefully they don't mind one-way tickets. This is all hypothetical future talk though. We'll see.
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Post by Stil on Apr 18, 2006 5:46:19 GMT 7
I came over on an 'L' and it was changed to 'Z' once I arrived but it's become more difficult for the schools to do this. Many rules have change or at least the level of enforcement of past rules have changed.
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Post by Dr. Gonzo on Apr 18, 2006 8:19:16 GMT 7
First was on a Z, but it only just made it in time: my passport was delivered to the airport an hour B4 I checked in : sweaty stuff. The second was an L, as some bright spark in the school's FAO decided to send my invitation by surface mail to save money. Again, some unnecessary stress. You'll find out that Chinese are absolute experts at this stuff. When we were coming home to Oz, which the whole suburb of Minhang had come to witness, the FAO had "forgotten" to arrange our transport, although she managed to shift the blame to a mignon. Luckily we had the carpool phone number. That IS China. Always plan for things to get stuffed up. Have plan B in place; I believe that's plan A with an element of panic.
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Post by George61 on Apr 18, 2006 8:29:02 GMT 7
Was that a "Filet Mignon"??
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Post by Stil on Apr 18, 2006 8:33:55 GMT 7
That IS China. Always plan for things to get stuffed up. Have plan B in place; I believe that's plan A with an element of panic. Count on plan A getting stuffed up and plan B having a 50% chance of sucess. Plan C is usually good odds but having a plan D never hurt anyone in China.
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Non-Dave
Barfly
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Post by Non-Dave on Apr 18, 2006 9:14:49 GMT 7
I came in on a Z Visa. No problems, no stress, got the residency permit and life is sweet. I can understand the sense of excitement and adventure of coming in and working illegaly and hoping the school has the guanxi to make the paperwork happen but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.
Getting a Z Visa doesn't mean you have to sign the contract before you arrive - NEVER do that!
Plans here are like girlfriends, have lots and don't be surprised when one goes bad.
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gengrant
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Post by gengrant on Apr 18, 2006 9:23:54 GMT 7
first time 'round they gave me the letter of invite in order to get the Z...had it translated and found out my wife and I were managers of a paper making factory...hmmmm...? 2nd time 'round came over on a touristy visa and had it changed over by the school... this last time, we're coming over on a Z again (ours hasn't expired yet) so, there ya go.
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Post by icebear on Apr 18, 2006 9:48:45 GMT 7
ND would you care to elaborate on this? I was under the impression getting a letter of invitation involved signing a contract prior to arrival?
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Non-Dave
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Post by Non-Dave on Apr 18, 2006 10:20:50 GMT 7
No! No! No! No! No!
You should get a job offer from a school (or a thousand of them) and a copy of the contract before you leave home. Read the contract, make sure it covers all the necessary things, ask questions and banter back and forth until your happy with the offer. Make changes to the wording of the contract so that it suits you and send it back to them. They may not agree to everything but it is good way to see if the school is serious and you end up with everything in writing.
Accept the job offer and they should send you the documents you need to get your Z Visa - a Letter of Introduction and a Work Permit.
Then when you arrive at the school they'll whip out the contract before they say hello and offer you a fountain pen to sign it. Smile brightly and ask to have a look around, have a copy of the contract you were sent (check to make sure they are the same). When you are happy that everything is kosher you can sign on the dotted line.
It is a good idea to fix any spelling mistakes and at least make sure there is some alteration there fixed in your own handwriting (on both copies) so in the future you can prove that it is the contract you originally signed. And make sure you keep your copy of the original.
You agree to the contract before arrival - but never sign it. Any school that won't follow this formula probably isn't worth the effort. That's my take on it.
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Post by Dr. Gonzo on Apr 18, 2006 10:22:56 GMT 7
No! A contract can only legally be made face to face with real signatures - not faxed ones - and the official school stamp. The faxed or mailed one is just a statement of intent.
And George, I was just being cultured:[French mignon, darling, from Old French mignot, mignon.]
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Post by icebear on Apr 18, 2006 13:14:07 GMT 7
Thank you very much for the clarification... the whole process is starting to make some bit of sense.
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Newbs
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Post by Newbs on Apr 18, 2006 15:14:17 GMT 7
All good advice. I particuarly liked the bit Dave mentioned, about changing something, even if you are really satisfied with the contract. Just lets 'em know who's boss.
Loller, the problem with this, at least in Hoganland, is that the airlines might not be too happy about letting you fly with them. They can see a scenario where you fly to China, are refused entry because of the lack of a return ticket, and have to fly you back home. What the airlines fail to realise is that TIFC and there are ways around any damn rule.
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Ruth
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Post by Ruth on Apr 18, 2006 17:05:06 GMT 7
Arrived first time on a Z visa. We did sign a contract and fax it back to the school before they faxed us the letter of intent. With letter of intent in hand we spent a couple hours at the Chinese Embassy and got the Z visa. Only problem was we wanted a multiple entry one and they gave us a single entry one. No problem, though. The school fixed us up when we wanted to travel home during the year. School has hooked us up for the second and third years with z visas, no traumas. Newest Z visas are for multiple entry, so trips home are okay. The faxed, signed contract is a mostly-firm commitment by both parties. The real deal is done in ink and red stamp when you are face-to-face. Like Non-Dave said, check it out before you sign in ink.
I wouldn't recommend coming here without a Z visa if you are intending to work, but I'm a 'play it by the rules' kind of person. Others do it and seem to manage very well.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Apr 18, 2006 17:25:04 GMT 7
...the whole process is starting to make some bit of sense. Uh-oh. Be afraid. Be VERY afraid.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Apr 18, 2006 18:31:25 GMT 7
I came on a tourist and with enough cash for a 3-4 month holiday. Tourist visas mean you must have a return ticket, though. I got a z before I started work, well, actually, it took them a couple of months because I got my tourist visa renewed a couple of times and stuff, so it was still valid, even though I wasn;t allowed to work on it - I was beginning to worry. I hassled, they fixed it, now in my second contract, and they renewed it quicksmart in a week when I needed it.
They were just being lazy, not shonky, as it turns out.
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loller
Up And Coming
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Post by loller on Apr 18, 2006 18:48:43 GMT 7
I came on a tourist and with enough cash for a 3-4 month holiday. Tourist visas mean you must have a return ticket, though. Are you sure? Did they stop you before you went on the plane to see if you had another ticket for the return flight?
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Post by cheekygal on Apr 18, 2006 21:46:38 GMT 7
I came in on F visa. Had one way ticket. Had that visa extended about 5 times. Then finally got a Z visa in Shenzhen but only for 3 months because I am ... Russian. Then went with that visa to Harbin where I didn't get the actual visa extention but neither it was cancelled: they just changed the work permit and then living permit books. The PSB in Shenzhen wouldn't give a release letter for my visa thats why it had to work that way. Actually, later on in Qingdao they would give me a 1 month Z visa which wouldnt be cancelled but the other documents were for a year. Every city has its tricks when it comes to handling visas for foreigners. Right now Beijing has visa restrictions on Former Soviet Union females under 30 years old and African people. Sad? But true.
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Post by cheekygal on Apr 18, 2006 21:47:17 GMT 7
I mean African from African countries...
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loller
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Post by loller on Apr 18, 2006 21:53:53 GMT 7
Haha, China doesn't care about black people.
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Post by cheekygal on Apr 18, 2006 22:13:01 GMT 7
Loller, once you come here - you'll realise where certain issues come from.
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loller
Up And Coming
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Post by loller on Apr 18, 2006 22:30:30 GMT 7
I was more parodying the line, "George Bush doesn't care about black people." The one said by rapper, Kanye West, during the live Katrina fundraising stuff.
Do explain what you were getting at though
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Post by icebear on Apr 18, 2006 22:51:31 GMT 7
While Kayne shouldn't command any authority on the subject, he's most likely right.
I'm also curious about the situation concerning Africans in China. I'm aware that there is some heavy discrimination, are you implying there is more to it than just that?
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Post by Stil on Apr 18, 2006 23:05:36 GMT 7
Who is Kanye (what kind of m'kaying name is this) West? My ignorance probably shows my age. Is it just me or did someone leave the saloon door open and let a few youngins in.
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