Uli
Up And Coming
Posts: 31
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Post by Uli on Aug 23, 2006 5:19:15 GMT 7
Hi everybody
I would like to know if you think I'm insane. I've got an offer from a school near Harbin in a rather small town. Salary is very good - 8000/month+8000 bonus+accomodation+meals for a 4-month contract - and the people I have talked to were very friendly. I really would like to go, but lessons would start in the beginning of September already, and if I want to get a flight around 1000 Euros, I should book it as soon as possible. That is, basically, I would need to book the flight on the employer's word that they'll hire me. I havn't been to China and don't know a lot about the people there. I like adventure, but within limits. I wouldn't like to end up in Harbin being told that they found another person meanwhile or something similar. Am I being overly suspicious or maybe rather overly naive? Has anyone heard of people in a similar situation who made bad experiences?
Uli
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Post by Hamish on Aug 23, 2006 5:30:25 GMT 7
Have them send you a SIGNED contract via fastest available. They can do it. Have 'em fax it. I wouldn't go there unless they will do that. Also, tell them you want FULL payment for your ticket in hand when you arrive.
Have you seen photos of the school and where they expect you to live?
Good luck.
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Uli
Up And Coming
Posts: 31
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Post by Uli on Aug 23, 2006 5:57:28 GMT 7
Have you seen photos of the school and where they expect you to live? Thanks for the tips. No, I havn't seen any photos yet... and the place is to small to find anything in the internet. But I'll ask them for some... Uli
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Post by Mr Nobody on Aug 23, 2006 6:46:42 GMT 7
Pics of the FLAT, not just the school. Accommodation. They may not want to pay for the ticket when you get there but you can ask. Most places give it to you at the end of the contract, but some people have managed to get it.
But without a contract and a visa, you shouldn't be going anywhere.
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Post by solongtinik on Aug 23, 2006 17:23:49 GMT 7
dont have any idea but my friends who came from harbin said schools there really pay well...im not sure bout the accomodation though... but sometimes pics are not enough coz i heard of stories of bait and switch..they deceive u of what they can actually offer..
goodluck fella!
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Post by solongtinik on Aug 23, 2006 17:24:43 GMT 7
btw, taking the risk is actually the best part in coming to china
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Post by George61 on Aug 23, 2006 18:27:20 GMT 7
PM Non-Dave and ask him about the school.
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Uli
Up And Coming
Posts: 31
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Post by Uli on Aug 23, 2006 19:13:46 GMT 7
Thanks everybody. I've talked to my contact again and she said it was no problem to make the contract before, although she seemed a little suprised ("We are not kidding in China"). With respect to the visa she first said it was no problem at all I needn't bother and then, when I insisted on the question of a work permit, told me they would provide me with it, again that it was no problem "there are so many people working here". Do you think it is ok to travel there on a tourist visa and then have it changed?
Uli
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Post by George61 on Aug 23, 2006 19:53:55 GMT 7
You haven't mentioned the name of the school or the city! How are we to know? As I said before, PM Non-Dave and ask him if he has any information.
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Ruth
SuperDuperMegaBarfly
God's provisions are strategically placed along the path of your obedience.
Posts: 3,915
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Post by Ruth on Aug 23, 2006 20:50:31 GMT 7
Sounds like a too-good-to-be-true deal and you know what they say about those...
Why do you have to arrive on a tourist visa? Why can't they send you the contract and a letter of invitation (by fax, or scanned and by email) so that you can get a proper Z visa before arriving? These things can be done in a matter of days. I'd hold out for the legal approach, but that's just me.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Aug 23, 2006 20:51:11 GMT 7
Uh, George, he named the city in the 2nd sentence of his first post, and it's been mentioned several times since then. Lighten up, sweetheart. Naming the school doesn't matter so much. There's a small chance one of us will know it, but there's a zillion schools in China now...the odds are quite tiny. Even n-Dave, living in Harbin, may not know the school even though he lives in the city. Uli, you're getting pretty sound advice. Definitely don't fly in without a signed contract in hand...get them to send it by fast courier, not a fax. A visa in hand would be even better. There are precedents for schools sending out tons of signed contracts and then just hiring/giving visas to the first ones to arrive until their slots are all full. (THESE ARE RARE, THOUGH...don't worry too much.) Are you sure you're getting a Z Visa/Residence Permit/Work Permit? Your description doesn't specify this. It's uncommon to be offered these things for a 4-month contract; if you are I'd take this as one good sign. If you are indeed getting these documents, it's not uncommon to enter on a tourist visa and then convert. However, Ruth points out correctly that it's better to have the Z, or at least the invitation letter in hand when you arrive. If you end up working on a Business visa, that's a decision only you can make...but you should at least know from the outset. It's most common to get flight reimbursements at the end of the contract, but if you can get it up front that's great. I wouldn't sweat it too much. I don't see a flight reimbursement in your description of the deal, though...just an 8000 RMB bonus. That will DEFINITELY come at the end. Personally, I wouldn't sweat the pics of the flat or school all that much. They couldn't hurt, but there's no way to know if what they send you will match reality or not anyway. There's ALWAYS a certain amount of risk in coming here. It simply can't be avoided. However, it's not hard to find a job. If you can support yourself a little while IF the job does fall through, then the level of risk is probably fairly acceptable. You have to be a little careful...you do of course want to watch out for yourself, but coming across as too demanding or paranoid from the beginning will scare people away. Be businesslike, professional, and courteous in handling this stuff.
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Post by Mr Nobody on Aug 23, 2006 23:05:34 GMT 7
I checked today (SAFEA legal site), and teaching for a short time, a business visa is OK. It is long term contracts that need a z.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Aug 23, 2006 23:58:09 GMT 7
Did they specify what they mean by a "short time"? They may have things like a 1-week "guest lecturer" stint in mind...
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Post by Mr Nobody on Aug 24, 2006 0:20:16 GMT 7
No specific duration mentioned, just 'short stays' for such things as lectures, business, blah blah teaching. It certainly read like teaching as in at schools. Felt like less than one term, if you know what I mean. Implication sorta kinda. Since the visa is like a one or three month one, that plus renewal just about fits. My guess is that for a four month stay, the business one is about right. Tomorrow I will try to find it again and get the link. I was looking at it for the list of the (seven?) countries of white monkey faces, but I couldnt' find it.
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Uli
Up And Coming
Posts: 31
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Post by Uli on Aug 24, 2006 3:40:57 GMT 7
I finally found information on the "school" in the internet. The owners obviously have changed its name a bit, but there is no doubt it is the place described, and a bad rip of. The school was supposedly "near Harbin" in a town called Jiagedaqi, and is now called "Ruyi Middle School". As I know now, "near" in this case means about 10 train hours away. Also, it's not even in the province advertised (Heilongjiang) but in Inner Mongolia. Not that I would bother. But at least two teachers made very bad experiences there (salary not payed, passports and certificates not returned, bogus work permits, detained by corrupt police, and other (see links)). www.abroadchina.org/html/cache=article66.htmwww.eslteachersboard.com/cgi-bin/review/index.pl?noframes;read=4902So that's that. At least your advice made me skeptical enough to find out about this before booking anything. Thanks, therefore, a lot, everybody. Uli
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Post by hankuh on Aug 24, 2006 5:28:14 GMT 7
See, it pays to investigate; when red flags (pun intended) are going up all over the place, it's best not to do anything stupid because some unscrupulous schools and their administrators and foreign lackeys are counting on you being "the dumb foreigner." It's worked before with them, and it will work again for them, but you're wise and that makes all the difference. I'm sure as long as you are careful and prudent, you will get something soon which will make your China experience a good one, instead of a hell on middle earth.
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Post by Raoul Duke on Aug 24, 2006 6:57:48 GMT 7
Good for you, Uli! You just dodged a BIG bullet...
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Post by Mr Nobody on Aug 24, 2006 7:05:37 GMT 7
Our job is done here, kimosabe.
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Post by solongtinik on Aug 24, 2006 13:11:11 GMT 7
("We are not kidding in China")...they dont know it's real sense...LOL!
uli, good for u! a, doomed with my F visa now...chiz! i wanna get my ass outta here!
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Post by Mr Nobody on Aug 24, 2006 14:14:16 GMT 7
F visa seems to be OK for "less than one semester" teaching, but I can't be sure. I looked at the 2006 SAFEA site and it is garbage. Badly organized, and has what appears to be people's posts from their forum and their opinions as definitive answers, spelled badly and some things appear to be actually incorrect. Plus, when people are asking questions, they aren't answering themselves (which would be a great thing - answers from on high), but letting other FE answer. I just ain't drunk enough to work my way around it. Others want to try? I advise to drink as much baijiu as the webmaster seems to have done. Navigation sucks too. www.safea.gov.cn/english/content.php?id=12742731www.safea.gov.cn/english/content.php?id=12742702And their home page: www.safea.gov.cn/english/#
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Post by solongtinik on Aug 24, 2006 14:17:48 GMT 7
MR nobody,
my contract is 1 year, they renew every 3 mos...is that ok?
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Post by Mr Nobody on Aug 24, 2006 14:20:56 GMT 7
Well, I don't know for sure. I think the answer is NO, but this site is very confusing. I haven't read it all, either.
I understand that they actually can't offer you a contract longer than the visa. But hell, this IS China, and rules are sort of guidelines to the right people.
However, the key thing is the residency permit. Do you have one of those?
IF so, I don't think it matters. I am not a lawyer, and even if I was, this info is pure crap on the SAFEA website. Well, maybe some good stuff, but the mixture is very confusing. Don't take my answers for gospel. I wouldn't even take the SAFEA website as gospel at this point in time. And it SHOULD be.
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Post by MK on Aug 24, 2006 16:37:01 GMT 7
I'd be tempted to stay in touch and ask them nicely about that slight mix-up with which province they are in, just to see what the reply was...after all they seemed a bit touchy that you would doubt their honesty.
...hmmm a google search indicates that Jiagedaqi is in fact in the Far North West of Helongjiang province (which is waaaaaay out there - actually futher north than Inner Mongolia)...guess it's possible they operate in both provinces.
(No matter, still sounds like a terrible place to work and best avoided)
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Post by Dr. Gonzo on Aug 24, 2006 16:46:32 GMT 7
I think George's cynicism is warranted, yet again. I've read any number of ads for "Shanghai" jobs that are, at best, near Kunshan, or more bucolic still, in Jiangxi. Well done old fella.
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Post by George61 on Aug 24, 2006 20:30:27 GMT 7
"I would like to know if you think I'm insane. I've got an offer from a school near Harbin in a rather small town. Salary is very good - 8000/month+8000 bonus+accomodation+meals for a 4-month contract - and the people I have talked to were very friendly. I really would like to go, but lessons would start in the beginning of September already, and if I want to get a flight around 1000 Euros, I should book it as soon as possible." ***** "You haven't mentioned the name of the school or the city! How are we to know? As I said before, PM Non-Dave and ask him if he has any information." ***** "Uh, George, he named the city in the 2nd sentence of his first post, and it's been mentioned several times since then. Lighten up, sweetheart." ***** "I think George's cynicism is warranted, yet again." ***** Thanks, Gonzo.Glad someone can read straight!!
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