gto
New Chum
Posts: 8
|
Post by gto on Jun 10, 2006 21:06:09 GMT 7
Hello this is my first post and while I know this isn't the place to bash schools, I am going to do so in a very polite and respectful way. I just wanted everyone to keep in mind that no one, no matter how nice they act or how much they offer you, is looking out for your interests. I think people also should be especially aware of the very close relationship Katie Boland from The Boland School has with James Ma (aka Mr Ma) at Shane English School in Suzhou. I have nothing nice to say about either school and would never recommend either to anyone. While my opinions are my own and everyone has a different experience, it is for this reason I will keep my situation to myself and not "bash" the hell out of them. I just want everyone to know that many people will offer to help you only because they are puppet masters and when you owe them something, you are the puppet and your debts are the strings. Please, look out for yourself and be very careful with those who are "pretending" to be so nice. The above two schools specifically. I hope I have done a good job in explaining myself to where you are cautious without me directly saying some very unkind words. If I have offended anyone, I am sorry. My post is meant only as a warning. GTO MAN
|
|
|
Post by Raoul Duke on Jun 11, 2006 1:10:48 GMT 7
Fair enough. It should be pointed out that while Shane is an English school, Boland offers training and certification for EFL teachers. My overall impression of Boland is quite positive. However, Shane does indeed seem to have a long and sordid history in Suzhou. I have personally recommended people to the former but definitely not the latter. GTO, you've made some pretty broad charges here. I might request that you at least tell your side of the actual story rather than laying down what seems a rather vague accusation. I might also encourage you to also post the review over at Nate's China School Review ( www.chinaschoolreview.net). They are our partner site, and the preferred place for school reviews.
|
|
|
Post by George61 on Jun 11, 2006 4:26:18 GMT 7
Not bad for a first post, GTO, and welcome aboard. I think some detail is needed, as Raoul suggested.
|
|
|
Post by con's fly is open on Jun 11, 2006 16:09:35 GMT 7
What Raoul said: post at Nate's. You could end up saving people a lot of grief.
|
|
gto
New Chum
Posts: 8
|
Post by gto on Jun 11, 2006 21:38:00 GMT 7
I thank everyone for their feedback. My experience is outlined at the site recommended. My situation revolves around money I owed Katie Boland for the TEFL class there. I have since learned that the Boland School promised Shane School a teacher (that would be me) but Katie Boland told Mr Ma at Shane he had to see to it that she got paid what I owed the Boland School. So when pay day came, Boland School was there and literally snatched my money off the counter when the Shane School laid it down. This agreement between Shane and Katie Boland was neither revealed to me or agreed upon by me. I would have never gone to work for Shane under such conditions. My employment abruptly ended after I told Shane School they would pay me weekly or I would quit. I was told it wasn't in my contract to get paid weekly. This is when I informed them it wasn't in my contract to call Katie Boland and have her come to the school and collect my salary every month either. The Shane School owes me for 10 days employment and is refusing to pay.
|
|
|
Post by Raoul Duke on Jun 12, 2006 1:24:58 GMT 7
As told, it sounds like you are partly in the right here.
You do seemingly indeed have an obligation to Boland for the tuition, and it needs to be taken care of. However, I don't think they legally have any right to come seize your pay.
You can't insist on weekly pay, especially after already signing a contract. They just won't do it. It increases their risk and decreases their control. It will also most likely play hell with their (no doubt badly petrified and heavily befuddled) accounting department. It isn't going to happen. And once you agree to the terms with your signature, they are under absolutely no obligation to change them.
My take: see it as an opportunity to get away from Shane. Forget the 10 days and walk away.
|
|
|
Post by Mr Nobody on Jun 12, 2006 13:45:40 GMT 7
However, I am sure that Boland has no right to come and forcibly take your money. That is theft. The school has no right or duty to inform them when you get paid. Garnisheeing your pay without agreement and without a legal document enforcing it is surely an illegal act anywhere.
|
|
|
Post by Stil on Jun 12, 2006 13:57:51 GMT 7
However, I am sure that Boland has no right to come and forcibly take your money. That is theft. The school has no right or duty to inform them when you get paid. Garnisheeing your pay without agreement and without a legal document enforcing it is surely an illegal act anywhere. I would think so, unless gto is contracted to Boland and not to Shane. Then Shane would pay Boland first. Is your contract with Shane's school directly gto?
|
|
gto
New Chum
Posts: 8
|
Post by gto on Jun 13, 2006 0:11:29 GMT 7
Again I want to thank everyone for their feedback. My contract is in fact with Shane School. I have though agreed to pay Boland 2000rmb per month and intend on sticking to that. What angered me the most was the absolute lack of trust Katie Boland has in being paid. The lack of trust should only exist if I had failed to pay her as I promissed. My situation is very unusual. The Boland School did front me when I arrived here from Ukraine. I had made one of the biggest mistakes of my life and brought Ukraine currency with me. Its non convertable as I found out the hard way. I have learned since that Katie Boland promissed Mr Ma a teacher only if he promissed to make sure she got her money back from me. Also, this is an ever developing situation. Today I received a legal document from Shane saying I was in breach of my contract and owed alot of money to them. Also to make this situation even worse (as if it could be) I am in an apartment rented by another American who was working for Shane and borrowed some 14,000rmb from Shane to get the apartment and pay some debts. This American had a medical condition that required him to return to America abruptly. Mr Ma believes since I live in the apartment I should pay back this money to him. I have refused and have been given 48 hours to vacate the premises and have been threatened with jail if I dont comply. You read that correctly. I have had the original lease reviewed by a Chinese person who informs me the lease does not have Shane School on it as a tenant anywhere. Shane signed the lease to the apartment as a witness. I dont see how they can kick me out. In my opinion it should be the landlords decision. As it stands I have contacted the American embassy and the individual there who handled my room mates situation. I have informed them I have been threatened with jail by the Shane School. They are looking into it and at this time I await their phone call. I would hope that no one who is on this site would choose to work for Shane. And for those of you who would recommend Boland I would consider the fact that they try to send every teacher to Shane and have them come to the school each session to recruit teachers. If for none other reason, this is enough for me not to recommend Boland.
|
|
|
Post by Raoul Duke on Jun 13, 2006 3:11:59 GMT 7
Uh, Mr. N, I said pretty much exactly what you did.
When I recommend Boland I ALWAYS include a warning to not let yourself get pipelined to Shane.
|
|
|
Post by Mr Nobody on Jun 13, 2006 13:40:38 GMT 7
Sorry, Raoul, yeah. I must have skipped a line. Reading too fast, with, perhaps, a drink in hand can do that.
My bad.
|
|
|
Post by Dajiang on Jun 13, 2006 15:09:19 GMT 7
I'd recommend just not borrowing money from anyone in China. Especially schools.
So GTO how are you going to solve this thing? Are you done in Suzhou with the TEFL course? In the clear with Boland? Up for a new start somewhere?
Dajiang
|
|
|
Post by Mr Nobody on Jun 13, 2006 16:33:06 GMT 7
Get your cash over to HK, perhaps, and maybe they can change it. I remember you said at that dinner at the pizza place in Suzhou that you had quite a bit. (I remember the amount, just not publicizing it) So you should be able to do something with that. If not, try sending it to someone you know in one of those countries, USA or Ukraine, see if you can get those drachmas or zloty or whatever they are converted into 'real' money, like South Pacific Pesos, welcome anywhere Ednas are.
|
|
|
Post by Dajiang on Jun 13, 2006 16:46:17 GMT 7
How about trying the Ukrainian embassy? Beijing, 010 65 32 63 59 Shanghai 021- 643 354 13
Gryvna's are hard to change back in any place, even Ukrainians prefer other currency. Another option is to try and get to know some Ukrainian students perhaps. Must be some around in Beijing and the North.
|
|
|
Post by Raoul Duke on Jun 14, 2006 3:24:58 GMT 7
Nobby, pretty sure you can't cash this stuff in HK. Unlike the quickly integrating Yuan RMB, this stuff is really not convertible.
I seem to remember GTO mentioning at the party that he'd tried the Ukrainian Consulate in Shanghai. They didn't want it either, and had nothing very helpful to suggest...something about hanging out at the airport and trying his luck with passengers boarding flights to Kiev.
I have to admit that I find this aspect of the story hard to fathom. Understanding the money you possess is pretty damn fundamental.
|
|
woza17
SuperDuperBarfly!
Posts: 2,203
|
Post by woza17 on Jun 14, 2006 5:42:09 GMT 7
I got stuck in the Phillipines with only Scottish pounds. They wouldn't change them what a nightmare.
|
|
|
Post by Mr Nobody on Jun 14, 2006 6:55:44 GMT 7
Re: exchanging weird currencies:
Well, I understand that there has to be an exchange arrangement between the two countries or banks, otherwise forget it. Since this is also based on mutual recognition of each other's countries etc, small places or ones tied up elsewhere can get lost in the politics.
|
|
|
Post by Raoul Duke on Jun 14, 2006 14:43:33 GMT 7
<Ladies and gentlemen, I have received the following from Katie Boland of the Boland School, and I am posting it on her behalf. This action in no way necessarily indicates my own views on this matter, and is done purely in the interests of equal access. R>
Hello all,
Sorry to join the group on a note like this, but as my name (Katie) is mentioned, and we at Boland are more familiar with this situation than anyone, I would like to set the record straight here. I would like to simply address the facts, not interact with GTO on the topic. Indeed, I feel we have invested way too much time, energy and effort on his case already.
GTO came to our school on a payment plan that involved our fronting him money for a course and accommodations with the understanding that he paid a down-payment and his housing when he arrived in Suzhou. We would then let him study part-time and use our contacts to help him get a job so he could earn money to pay his tuition. He signed a contract with us to this effect before arriving in Suzhou
GTO arrived in Suzhou penniless. The reason is actually irrelevant, but the fact remains-we put a hold on his payments, lent him money for food, put him up and got him started on his course so that he could get some working knowledge under his belt and start teaching. We sat down with him and hacked out an appendix to the contract and a new, more realistic payment calendar that would begin after he found a job, in light of his new situation. GTO agreed, and signed the new contract and payment plan. It is interesting to note that we didn't calculate any interest payments or additional charges for this-we were just trying to find a way to make it work for the poor guy. We sent one of our staff members out with him to search for jobs right away, as we all understood that he needed to earn money immediately. We set up interviews and because he had no idea how and where to start the job search and what to say at interviews, we had one of our trainers go with him to five schools in Suzhou. I remember GET, Stanford, Lynch, a school in Wuzhong that came to Boland to interview him and maybe there were others. Shane was one of those schools. We would have taken him to more, but his lack of qualifications and educational background ruled him out of many posts. Shane and Stanford both agreed to hire GTO part-time, based on Boland’s recommendation. GTO started working for both immediately, and continued his TEFL studies. He additionally took part in our jobs fair at the Suzhou Foreign Experts bureau where he met with several other schools, one of which hired him for a summer post in Shanghai. There was no shortage of choice in the job opportunities offered to GTO, and he chose where he wanted to go. There was no need for him to take the Shane job-he could have gone to GET, or another school, but Shane offered him a visa and apartment with no up-front payment, and a schedule that would allow him to continue his TEFL, so he took that one. Of course he was under pressure to take a job immediately -he had no money, but we really did everything we possibly could for him to ensure that he had a wide range of choices. The Boland School played no part and had no special agreement with Shane, Stamford or the Shanghai school concerning GTO, but we did put our good name behind his application with those two Suzhou schools. Both had previously hired our program graduates and were happy with them, and they were schools where our graduates who had worked there were generally happy. Both schools offered GTO their regular compensation packages, and the Shane school got him his visa and a place in a school apartment with no cash up front. Not a bad deal, especially if you supposedly have no money. GTO also boasted that Shane had given him a scooter as part of the package, so he seemed pleased with the situation. Sinead also negotiated with Stamford on GTO's behalf so that he would be paid cash after each lesson so he had something to live on.
GTO defaulted on his payment calendar with Boland again and again, and after one month, still had not paid for his Boland school accommodations, nor for even the registration fees and books for his TEFL course. We asked him for cash each day a payment was due, but he always pleaded poverty, and didn't seem to mind that he was defaulting. However, various staff members did see him at Starbucks and the Indian restaurant in the SIP and comments were made that he seemed to be doing a lot of shopping and have plenty of money. We confronted him on this. He said that we should wait until he was paid on the 10th and that Shane and take the money out of his paycheck. We agreed, and informed the Shane school of the agreement. However, when the first Shane payday came around, he didn't contact us, and told Shane he didn't want them to give us the money, so we sent a representative down to the Shane school to work it out with GTO and Shane. Afterwards we called GTO into the Boland office for a talk. We requested that he give us the exact amount of his pay which was to be docked and the date in writing. He did so, and signed an agreement with us to that effect, which we faxed to Shane. We took the agreed amount of his salary, and that allowed us to get about 50% of the accommodation costs that he owed us from the time he arrived and the first part of his TEFL course. I repeat-GTO did sign an agreement allowing us to dock a part of his pay from Shane. We have a copy of the document, and so does Shane. GTO also has his original document.
GTO continued to ignore his payment calendar, and didn't ever even bother to stop in to tell us that he wasn't going to pay. After stage 1 of his TEFL was completed (after 5 weeks), we asked him to first go and earn money to pay his debts before continuing on to stage 2 in our program. He was upset that we were asking him to leave and was rude to us. He came back a few days later with a new payment plan agreement that if signed, would annul the contract and payment calendar he had previously signed with us and would cancel all payments until June 10th, at which time he would start paying again. We didn't agree to sign such a document, having been given no reason whatsoever to trust in his good faith.
He slid that contract, signed by him alone, under the door our school one night. We filed it and decided to wait and see what would happen on the 10th. The 10th of each month was the date designated by his pay-dock agreement as well, so we hoped to at least get the remainder of his accommodation payment back.
On the 10th, we received a call from the Shane school saying that they were paying GTO. They didn't want to just dock the pay from him and give it to us, but wanted a Boland rep to be there so GTO could give the money to us personally. Apparently, GTO was very unhappy with this, though he knew that he owed the money and had agreed to pay. Throughout, GTO continued to repeat that he planned to pay everything back.
After he was paid at Shane and the agreed 2000 yuan had been given to us, GTO came back to Boland and was very rude to everyone. He shouted that we had 'stolen' his money, though in fact, he owed us over $1500 USD.
Apparently from there, he went back to Shane and made some kind of scene in their school. I don't know the details, but apparently he said he would give notice if they didn't pay him cash each week.
I guess they said no, and we heard that he then quit with no notice at all. He apparently sent the Shane school an sms text message saying he was quitting. Not so nice for any school!
I have heard that though he has been living there for 6 weeks, he hasn't yet paid any rent on the apartment Shane gave him, and seeing as he has also quit his job there, am not surprised that they are asking him to vacate the premises and pay the rent for the 6 weeks he has been living there. I think he should take this story to the American embassy. I wonder if they would help us get our money back, too?
That is the GTO story. He was treated very well by Boland. It is hard to understand how someone who came with nothing, gave nothing and was given training, course materials and accommodation without so much as a down-payment, job placement with many interviews, several job offers (and three jobs) and a world of support from our staff when he was in a bad situation can be here complaining, but that’s what it looks like. We have the contracts, payment calendar and also his pay-dock agreement with Shane on file, so it is all pretty easy to verify. Sorry to have to bring all of this to you guys at the forum, but at Boland, we really do work hard to make sure our trainees are treated well, are prepared for the job and have a wide range of good employment opportunities upon completion. It is hard enough to convey the fact that we will take care of them to those thinking about coming to China for training without people like GTO bashing us online. Thanks for your time.
Katie
|
|
|
Post by George61 on Jun 14, 2006 15:00:13 GMT 7
Two sides of a story!
|
|
|
Post by Dr. Gonzo on Jun 14, 2006 15:17:27 GMT 7
A fluent and comprehensive response from Ms Boland. I'm following this thread with interest.
|
|
|
Post by Mr Nobody on Jun 14, 2006 16:37:56 GMT 7
OK, so now, how do we decide who is in the right? As stated, I can sympathize with Boland school.
One question for GTO: Did you agree to this? If so, why are you complaining?
One question for Katie or anyone who knows: I still don't like the idea of a school paying a debtor directly. Does this kind of ad hoc agreement have force of law here?
So did Shane really have the right to give the money to Boland school over GTO's objections?
I feel that this is not the case, but I don't know. Anyone?
I got to think, though, that someone telling someone else that someone was spending money somewhere is a bit of a weak argument. Also irrelevant.
|
|
gto
New Chum
Posts: 8
|
Post by gto on Jun 14, 2006 18:43:57 GMT 7
Yes I have tried everything with my Ukraine money. I ended up mailing it to a GI friend stationed in Kuwait. He claimed he could exchange it there. He was partly right. They sell the currency there but wont by it. He has a girlfriend in Ukriane. He arrived there last week. I am still waiting for word on my money. Yes its a great deal and it will solve ALOT of problems. Last I was told he was to wire the money to me Wednesday. Thats today and I have received no word yet but there is a time difference I must consider. Here is the question of the hour for everyone. I have cut all ties with Shane (thank God) and moved out of the apartment they helped my friend get. I have my own place negotiated by a friend. No schools involved (another thank God). I have in fact paid the Boland School for all but I believe just under 3k rmb. This would bring me current to the point where I left the course. If I choose not to go back (thats about a 99% certainty) should I pay Boland for services not rendered. In her eyes, I owe her this money. I do feel I owe Boland for my lodging (now paid) and book fees even though she made me return them to her, and for the first half of the course that I attended. (yes when I pay the book fee I should get them back) But should I pay for the second half of the course I never attended that she wants me to pay? Should I pay Shane school all the money they are asking of me? They want a months salary for breaching my contract, they want a breach of contract fee, and they want money for my apartment that I already paid to my room mate. Yes I know I am probably digging a deap hole and loosing any chances of staying in Suzhou to work. But I honestly feel I am right about how this situation has been played out. I am not angry about giving money to Boland. I am angry they didnt trust me to pay and came to my employer (with his consent and not mine) and collected my money from them. Look at it this way. If any of you were home and you had a car payment, would you want you boss to pay your bank because the manager at your bank and your boss are best chums? This is what this is about. Total lack of trust from a fellow American (Katie Boland) deception from both Shane and Katie Boland, and most important the way my money was literally snatched of the desk by Boland as it was being counted out to me and when I said can I have my money I was told it wasnt my money it was theirs. So, should I pay Katie for services not rendered and should I even bother giving Shane the time of day?
|
|
|
Post by George61 on Jun 14, 2006 19:06:01 GMT 7
You had better pay it or lose your car! There are a lot of conflicting statements here, and in your initial grouse, GTO, none of this was mentioned. You have been digging a deep hole.
|
|
|
Post by acjade on Jun 14, 2006 19:12:46 GMT 7
!. I'd like to know what is Boland School... what niche in the ESL market is it fulfilling. ( Irrelevant here but I'm merely curious.)
And
2. What, GTO were you doing with Eukranian money in the first place.
|
|
|
Post by Dajiang on Jun 14, 2006 19:38:28 GMT 7
I reckon you've got to pay for what you've agreed to pay. Signing a contract is agreeing with it. Same goes for the Boland account. It's not a case of paying for each week. It's the full course or nothing. So dropping out in week 3 doesn't mean you don't have to pay for week 4 of course.
Besides, it's not that much. Just get yourself a job somewhere, read the contract well before signing it, don't borrow anything from anyone, and with a bit of luck you can pay all outstanding debts in two months.
Dajiang
|
|